'22 AO Day 4 OoP & Discussion

[mick1303]

Regarding Stosur - she has 7 (seven) Grand Slam titles in Doubles (3 of those - in mixed doubles). IMO this alone should put her in the HOF. But she also has that title and another final in singles.

[meganfernandez]

I didn't know Chang and Sabatini were in. I remember that Chang made it to another FO final, losing to Muster in 3, if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember if Gaby ever made it to another final. I don't think either of them should be in, but if they are, then Stosur getting in isn't so hard to accept.

Kevin

Chang also made the Australian and US Open finals in 1996.


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Thanks. I just looked it up. I guessed beforehand that one of them was against Sampras. I was not a fan and I probably didn't even watch that final.

Chang got to the semis of the USO the next year and had a great shot at the title - other semifinalists were Rafter, Rusedski, and Bjorkman. But he lost to Rafter.

[jazzyg]

Chang was a much more accomplished player than Stosur. I never pulled for him, but he was a top player for a long time before his body gave out and he fell like a rock. If Sampras had not saved a match point against Correjta with a second-serve ace when he was sick in the quarterfinals of the '96 U.S. Open, Chang would have cruised to the title and become No. 1 in the world, something he never did. Instead, he was a deer in the headlights after Sampras won a second-set tiebreak to even their final at a set apiece.

But Chang had no chance to win that '97 U.S. Open semi against Rafter, who played some of the best tennis in the history of the sport in that tournament and then repeated as champion the next year while not playing quite as well. I remember being dumbfounded when every CBS commentator picked Chang to beat Rafter in that semi. Anyone watching the way they were playing going into that match could have seen the beatdown coming on a very fast hard court. Chang's entourage sat in their box not moving for a long time at the conclusion because they bought into the idea he was due to win.

[JazzNU]

Anyone think Dmitri Tursunuv might be out of a job soon (like in 5 games)?

Kevin

Not even a little bit. Think he's probably got about the best job security on tour thru the end of this year at least.

I was a little premature tonight, but I don't have your confidence. But you probably have a more educated opinion. I hope you are right.

Kevin

Anett basically rose from relative tennis obscurity to stardom in a matter of 5 months. She's had this talent all along, but couldn't put all the pieces together on a consistent basis. The way that supposed tennis journalists would insult her on Twitter while seemingly thinking it was a compliment about her overall talent was rather embarrassing to see. She's no longer the joke that they were making her out to be. This has all happened under Dmitry, so I can't imagine her moving on after one bad showing at the Aussie Open. I feel like it would have to take repeated disappointments over several months before she's thinking it's time to make a change.

[meganfernandez]

Chang was a much more accomplished player than Stosur. I never pulled for him, but he was a top player for a long time before his body gave out and he fell like a rock. If Sampras had not saved a match point against Correjta with a second-serve ace when he was sick in the quarterfinals of the '96 U.S. Open, Chang would have cruised to the title and become No. 1 in the world, something he never did. Instead, he has was a deer in the headlights after Sampras won a second-set tiebreak to even their final at a set apiece.

But Chang had no chance to win that '97 U.S. Open semi against Rafter, who played some of the best tennis in the history of the sport in that tournament and then repeated as champion the next year while not playing quite as well. I remember being dumbfounded when every CBS commentator picked Chang to beat Rafter in that semi. Anyone watching the way they were playing go into that match could have seen the beatdown coming on a very fast hard court. Chang's entourage sat in their box not moving for a long time at the conclusion because they bought into the idea he was due to win.

Great recall! I just remember thinking it was a golden chance for Chang with Sampras out of the draw in 1997. Don't remember Rafter playing out of his mind. Yeah, Chang got stuck at #2 in the world.

[dmforever]

Not even a little bit. Think he's probably got about the best job security on tour thru the end of this year at least.

I was a little premature tonight, but I don't have your confidence. But you probably have a more educated opinion. I hope you are right.

Kevin

Anett basically rose from relative tennis obscurity to stardom in a matter of 5 months. She's had this talent all along, but couldn't put all the pieces together on a consistent basis. The way that supposed tennis journalists would insult her on Twitter while seemingly thinking it was a compliment about her overall talent was rather embarrassing to see. She's no longer the joke that they were making her out to be. This has all happened under Dmitry, so I can't imagine her moving on after one bad showing at the Aussie Open. I feel like it would have to take repeated disappointments over several months before she's thinking it's time to make a change.

OOOpsss, my total bad. I'd forgotten that he wasn't with Sabalenka anymore. That's what I was referring to. Mea culpa and thanks for the correction.

Kevin

[JazzNU]

About Stosur. Overachiever, underachiever, or just about right? I don't think she makes it to the HOF if only singles are counted.
I agree with you. I really liked watching her play. The serve was a beauty.

Underachiever in Singles. Full Stop. Do you guys remember how many finals she's played in? And remember how few titles she actually has? I watched so many of them and she was the better player many of those times and just couldn't get it done much more often than not. Very disappointing. I think I'd still feel she underachieved in her career even if she had won the French Open that year she was played so well, beat all the major contenders, and couldn't get the title, but obviously not quite as much. Because when I think of her on tour, I know it was a disappointment, I know she could've and should've had more success. She doesn't have any Masters/1000 level titles to my knowledge, which is fairly insane to say of a player of her caliber I think. So it's the Grand Slam and then other titles that aren't as impressive.

Although, and I've said this before, I enjoyed watching her play and I will say to my dying day, that despite that US Open title, the best I ever saw her play was at the Family Circle Cup/Volvo Open in I think it was 2009 or 2010 (whatever year she should've won the French Open). She was on fire that entire week and it's a tournament that always has a great field of players. Just played phenomenal tennis. And that Final was damn near flawless. Zvonareva had what I consider to be her most epic racquet smash, which is saying something for her, because she was so damn frustrated in that match, there was no stopping Sam's dominance that day, it was a master class.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen nearly enough for Sam in finals.

All that being said, I'd be very surprised if she didn't get into the HOF eventually once Doubles are taken into account. I don't believe she has automatic qualification, but I think her name recognition in Singles will help considerably with a fan vote.

[dmforever]

About Stosur. Overachiever, underachiever, or just about right? I don't think she makes it to the HOF if only singles are counted.
I agree with you. I really liked watching her play. The serve was a beauty.

Underachiever in Singles. Full Stop. Do you guys remember how many finals she's played in? And remember how few titles she actually has? I watched so many of them and she was the better player many of those times and just couldn't get it done much more often than not. Very disappointing. I think I'd still feel she underachieved in her career even if she had won the French Open that year she was played so well, beat all the major contenders, and couldn't get the title, but obviously not quite as much. Because when I think of her on tour, I know it was a disappointment, I know she could've and should've had more success. She doesn't have any Masters/1000 level titles to my knowledge, which is fairly insane to say of a player of her caliber I think. So it's the Grand Slam and then other titles that aren't as impressive.

Although, and I've said this before, I enjoyed watching her play and I will say to my dying day, that despite that US Open title, the best I ever saw her play was at the Family Circle Cup/Volvo Open in I think it was 2009 or 2010 (whatever year she should've won the French Open). She was on fire that entire week and it's a tournament that always has a great field of players. Just played phenomenal tennis. And that Final was damn near flawless. Zvonareva had what I consider to be her most epic racquet smash, which is saying something for her, because she was so damn frustrated in that match, there was no stopping Sam's dominance that day, it was a master class.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen nearly enough for Sam in finals.

All that being said, I'd be very surprised if she didn't get into the HOF eventually once Doubles are taken into account. I don't believe she has automatic qualification, but I think her name recognition in Singles will help considerably with a fan vote.

I saw that match with Vera too. She started crying during the match if I remember correctly. And didn't they have couches for players to sit on on the changeovers? Good call!

Kevin

[JazzNU]

I saw that match with Vera too. She started crying during the match if I remember correctly. And didn't they have couches for players to sit on on the changeovers? Good call!

Kevin

Totally! It was a long drawn out kind of frustrated rant that involved an extended racquet smash, she killed that thing til it was dead, flopped down on the couch/bench, was sulking, was crying. It was something to see. I remember Pam Shriver was part of the commentary for that match and just had to say, something like "I mean, well done, that had everything."

[dmforever]

I saw that match with Vera too. She started crying during the match if I remember correctly. And didn't they have couches for players to sit on on the changeovers? Good call!

Kevin

Totally! It was a long drawn out kind of frustrated rant that involved an extended racquet smash, she killed that thing til it was dead, flopped down on the couch/bench, was sulking, was crying. It was something to see. I remember Pam Shriver was part of the commentary for that match and just had to say, something like "I mean, well done, that had everything."

Jazz, I just KNOW you want to relive this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01BO-an2Mso

Kevin