by ti-amie I guess he finally got his story straight and is talking after he got his no fault pardon from the ATP. This is why the people who live in the hotel in Melbourne are livid with Tennis Australia. "I don't think I exposed anyone" sounds like sound medical judgement no?

Sam Querrey Speaks Out About COVID-19 Experience on ATP Tour
After breaching coronavirus protocols at the St. Petersburg Open in October, Querrey explains what happened after he learned of his positive test.
JON WERTHEIM

It may not have been the most outré sports story of 2020. But Sam Querrey’s cover-of-darkness departure from Russia after testing positive for COVID-19 ranks up there. It was deemed a “serious breach of protocol” by the ATP, potentially subject to a $100,000 fine and lengthy suspension. Ten weeks later, the ATP wrapped up its investigation, issuing Querrey a suspended $20,000 fine, provided he commits “no further breaches of health and safety protocols related to COVID-19 within a probationary six-month period.”

Still, Querrey is concerned that he is being judged harshly by a tennis community, not armed with all the facts. Consider this a FAQ on his misadventure, as well as a glimpse into what can go wrong on an international circuit during a pandemic. As he puts it, “It's not as simple as, Oh I got COVID, and then I went to my wife and said, ‘Let’s sneak out of here.’ I just want to say what happened and then people can judge me on what happened. If you still hate me after knowing what happened, that's fine.”

SI: So, what did happen?

Sam Querrey: Since tennis started back at the U.S. Open, there’s essentially been one or two people who’ve gotten COVID-19 at every tournament, and those people would just quarantine at the tournament hotel for what seemed like 10-14 days, whatever the local rule was, and then you would go on your merry way.

So for me, when I was playing in St. Petersburg, [my wife, son and I] arrived the Wednesday beforehand, in the evening. We got up Thursday morning, went to go take our COVID tests at the hotel; we got the tests back later that day, we were negative [and were told]: “Come back four days later to take another test.”

So the Sunday before the tournament actually started, my wife and I went down, took another COVID test. I went to practice; she stayed in the room with the baby. Sunday afternoon, I got a call from the woman organizing the COVID tests. “Hey, you and your wife tested positive, can you come downstairs and take another test to make sure that it’s positive.” No problem. We go downstairs and take another test, and we go back to the room.

She calls back a couple hours later. “Hey, you guys tested positive. Please stay in the room. Someone is going to reach out to you.” I know that’s what the risk is, and the rules, and we had no problem with it. An ATP representative reached out. “Hey, make sure you guys stay in the room, order room service. Do you guys need anything?” So it sucks, like I said, but that’s the plan, so we’re doing it. We quarantine for two days, we’re just getting room service, they’re bringing in to-go takeout boxes, putting new sheets outside the door, it doesn’t seem like a big issue. We’re gonna quarantine there for two weeks, and we feel safe, we’re in the tournament hotel, all is good.

Then two days in, around 8 p.m., I got a call from one of the ATP supervisors. “Hey, you guys are no longer welcome to stay at the hotel. And two doctors are gonna come to your room, one for you and your wife, and a pediatric doctor for your baby. And they’re going to determine whether you are symptomatic or not, and if you’re symptomatic, the three of you are going to a hospital for a minimum of two weeks.”

And I had this on speaker, so my wife starts panicking. I'm obviously not happy about that, because we feel safe in the tournament hotel. Now, we have two random doctors coming? Who are the doctors? I have no idea who they’re with, what hospital they’re with, what’s going on. And I couldn't get any answers.

Also, our son is seven months old at the time, and he is teething and has a little fever anyway. And so I didn't know if the doctors would determine he has a fever, he’s symptomatic. “Are they going take just the baby to a separate hospital from the one that we were going to go to?” And no one answered these questions for me. No one could say, “Oh, you guys will for sure stay together,” or anything like that.

So, at that moment, I felt very uncomfortable. And not to mention it was 10 p.m. at night, so I told the tour supervisor, “Hey, I'm not going to allow doctors to come into the room at 10 p.m. on Sunday. The baby is sleeping. We also have essentially no symptoms. We’re all fine.” And so, at that point, I've called [my agent] John Tobias and we’ve reached out to the ATP to hopefully get some answers and get some help. I say, “Hey, we feel very vulnerable, it’s very uncomfortable. It’s in the hands of these Russian doctors, and they are going to determine whether or not we go to a hospital in Russia for two weeks?”

Again, we were very happy at the hotel. We were distancing ourselves. We weren't around anyone, we were staying in the room, and never had a complaint, or a problem. So I said, “Please try to have the doctors come the next morning at 10 a.m., not Sunday night at 10 p.m.” The tour finally agreed to that, and because we were still going to get help from the tour, the embassy. But I kinda had to make a decision between 10 p.m. and 10 a.m. the next day. I had my wife there, and I had my baby there, and as a human decision, I was like, “Hey, I don't feel comfortable with this.” So we made the decision to charter a plane and leave.

SI: Let me stop you there. The one thing I see people saying is: This is what you signed up for. You take your family across an ocean during COVID and this is a possibility. What’s your response?

SQ: I say to those people, my plan initially was to play the French Open, then St. Petersburg, then Cologne, then Vienna, then Paris, so it was going to be a seven- to eight-week trip. We have a baby and I didn’t want to be away from my wife and son for that long; they didn’t want to be away from me for that long, and so they came with. And we knew that there was a risk of getting COVID, and that the rule was going to be to quarantine in the hotel, and we were okay with that. It’s not like we were the only people. I wasn’t the only person to bring a wife and a baby. Other players brought their wife and kids, too. That’s how tennis works. We were aware of the risk, but we didn’t think that anything more than quarantining in a hotel room would ever come about.

SI: So how did you get out?

SQ: I contacted a jet broker, and said, “Can I get a plane in, like, nine hours leaving from Saint Petersburg to London? And he came through and got one for me. And we left the hotel early in the morning so we wouldn’t be seen, and went right to the private jet terminal in Saint Petersburg and flew to London.

I will say that on that journey my wife and I wore medical masks, we wore N-95s, we never took the mask off to have a sip of water or a bite of food the entire time. We landed, we went right to an Airbnb that I rented, and we quarantined there for two weeks. I felt as a father and a husband there’s a human element to this, and I had to do what I feel like is right. I wasn’t willing to let our family go to a hospital for a minimum of two weeks where we were at.

Once I landed, then the story broke, as I'm sure you saw. That's where I got frustrated [because] it made it seem like I just got COVID and bounced. I didn't feel how it was portrayed after that was fair. I didn't refuse doctors who were at the door, I simply asked for them to come the next day—and they agreed to that. I read we were offered a luxury apartment; we were never offered a luxury apartment. We were offered an apartment but they wouldn’t tell me where it was, how we were going to get food, and we were offered that apartment if these doctors determined that the three of us were not symptomatic.

In my opinion, we didn’t really put anyone in danger, we kept to ourselves, we had two masks on; we did everything we possibly could in that journey to minimize exposure to anyone, and frankly, I think we did a great job. Talking to doctors [afterwards] they were like, “Look, you guys did a great job of doing that, and I can’t simply see how you would have passed it along to anyone during that trip.”

SI: I'm guessing this was not a financially lucrative week.

SQ: That was a very, very expensive flight. It was about $40,000. And I also had to pay for two weeks of an Airbnb in London.

SI: Where is the ATP Tour in all this?

SQ: There's the fine line. I have a good relationship with the ATP. I don’t to bash them and make them look bad. We were trying to reach out to the ATP and ask for help, and a little bit was they were saying, “Hey, it’s out of our hands now. It’s local authorities, it’s on them now.” From one week to the next, they’re dealing with different health authorities in different parts of the world. And then in this situation, once the player gets sick or tests positive, it reverts right to the health authorities.

SI: What did you think of the press release and the punishment? What do you think of what came out a few days ago?

SQ: Look, at its core, I have no suspension and no fine assuming I have good behavior for six months. I'm happy about it. I do wish the statement could have read something a little more along the lines of “Hey, based on the mitigating circumstances, we felt like Sam made a decision for his family.” Moving forward, I think the tour could do a better job of giving players COVID protocol. Sam regrets what he had to do but he feels like he had to, and together we would kinda move forward and do a better job.

Most people just read a headline and it's like, “Querrey breaks protocol and is suspended in $20,000 fine.” I felt like the wording was a little harsh, but if you do dig deep and see it, there is essentially no punishment.

SI: What else should people know?

SQ: The easiest choice for us was to stay at the hotel in Russia for the 10-14-day quarantine, and then fly home. That's what I wanted to do the whole time. And that option was taken away from me. That's why I had to do what I had to do. At no point did I think, “COVID, let’s get the hell out of here.”

SI: How were your symptoms?

SQ: I describe it like on a scale of 1-10, we had symptoms that were a 1.5-2… sore throat, a runny nose, three days later we were fine. In my opinion, not at all did we need to go to the hospital. I don't know if we would have gone to the hospital, but maybe we would have. So I don't know these doctors, who they were, what they were gonna say….[In London] we just quarantined and we honestly felt fine three days later.

SI: How much of this do you think is lumped in with Adria Tour and [Alexander] Zverev at the French, basically you being lumped in with some predecessors and people not drawing distinctions?

SQ: I mean, I don’t know. I don’t think a ton of it. I think they are all separate situations. There’s a lot of people where you feel strongly about COVID that no events should be going on at all. So, there's a group of people where it doesn’t matter what you did, they’re just pissed that you left your house.…At no point was I taking my mask off or doing anything to potentially spread the virus. I was following the rules the whole time. I did everything right until I was put in this very uncomfortable situation.

SI: Apart from all this, you haven’t played a match in 90 days. What’s been the impact of all this on your tennis?

SQ: The last six weeks I've been practicing like a normal off-season. And I'm not the only one who hasn’t played a lot of matches; there’s a lot of guys who haven't’ played a lot of matches, so I'm excited to go to Delray, I'm excited to go to the Australian Open. I am nervous, in a way, like am I still going to be good? You almost don't know what your level is going to be. So I'm trying to not set expectations too high. I feel like I've worked really hard the last six, seven weeks in the gym and on the court. But that doesn’t always mean you’re going to go to Australia and make a run. Hopefully we put that in the work for the year, but I’m excited to go out and play.

SI: And you’ll go to Delray, you’ll go to Australia.

SQ: Right.

SI: I guess the family probably won’t join you until the spring…

SQ: They’re not coming, no. I mean even if this all didn’t happen, I don’t think they’d come.

https://www.si.com/tennis/2021/01/04/sa ... ended-fine

by ponchi101 On the one hand: they tell me some Doctors from a different country are going to determine where my family and I will be held for two weeks and I bolt too. I said that one before.
On the other: if your family can't be without you for 8 weeks, then don't leave. Or don't leave for that long. But it was not as if C19 was a secret around the world.

In all. Yes, $20K fine and a 6 weeks suspension. Which would not be suspended in turn. He got away easy.

Last: who does this part of the interview reminds me of:
"and frankly, I think we did a great job. Talking to doctors [afterwards] they were like, “Look, you guys did a great job of doing that, and I can’t simply see how you would have passed it along to anyone during that trip.”
Who does he sound like?

by ti-amie Someone with vewy tiny hands?

by Deuce
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:03 pm On the one hand: they tell me some Doctors from a different country are going to determine where my family and I will be held for two weeks and I bolt too. I said that one before.
On the other: if your family can't be without you for 8 weeks, then don't leave. Or don't leave for that long. But it was not as if C19 was a secret around the world.
I was going to say essentially the same thing as that ^.
Sam seems like a decent guy. But it's not like he HAD to play ALL those tournaments, or he'd lose his job... So, if family comes first, as he says, then, in these days where the virus is an imminent danger, do like everyone else and do not follow your normal schedule and stay home more.
I can also understand his frustration and fear with the situation, as it was playing out - foreign country, foreign doctors, many unknowns... But, hey - don't put your family in that position in the first place, Sam.

Also, in reading the article, I was expecting him to say that when he called to get the charter flight, he told them that they had tested positive for COVID-19 - so that the airline, pilots, etc. would be able to decide whether or not to fly them. But there is no indication he mentioned their positive tests when he called for the flight. I wonder if he did tell them...

by mmmm8 So, I understand the uncertainty was uncomfortable but I would say keeping your family, including a child (that has a fever) and yourselves from medical professionals with a disease known to progress rapidly to a life-threatening stage is not the most responsible thing to do for your family.

by atlpam His mistake was taking his family on the trip in the first place. I really can't blame him for the decision he made once he was in the situation. Although they took precautions during the travel, I would also question whether or not the charter flight company was aware of their Covid status.

by JazzNU So, I'm trying to figure out more about Dayana's doping suspension, and I see a post on her IG that seems to say without explicitly saying that she had covid but isn't as clear as it should be (I'm guessing it's more obvious in Ukrainian). Not sure it matters anymore given the suspension, but mark her down as another player that had covid.

by mmmm8
atlpam wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:54 pm His mistake was taking his family on the trip in the first place. I really can't blame him for the decision he made once he was in the situation. Although they took precautions during the travel, I would also question whether or not the charter flight company was aware of their Covid status.


And the drivers that took them to/from the plane.

by mmmm8
JazzNU wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:00 pm So, I'm trying to figure out more about Dayana's doping suspension, and I see a post on her IG that seems to say without explicitly saying that she had covid but isn't as clear as it should be (I'm guessing it's more obvious in Ukrainian). Not sure it matters anymore given the suspension, but mark her down as another player that had covid.
Yes, she says she tested negative then developed symptoms.

by skatingfan Andy Murray has tested positive for the virus.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN29J16K

by ponchi101 He should travel and quarantine there. In a sense, probably as good as what happened to Djokovic. You caught it, went over it, now you can worry less.
I wish this guy would catch a break soon. He has been through a lot these last couple of years.

by ti-amie
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:57 pm He should travel and quarantine there. In a sense, probably as good as what happened to Djokovic. You caught it, went over it, now you can worry less.
I wish this guy would catch a break soon. He has been through a lot these last couple of years.
You mean like this guy?

COVID-positive' tennis player Tennys Sandgren granted special exemption to fly to Australia
Joey Riordan
7Sport
Published: 13/01/2021

American tennis star Tennys Sandgren has been granted special permission to board a flight from Los Angeles to Melbourne, despite testing positive to coronavirus this week.

The world number 50 was tweeting the bizarre series of events that led him to board the flight that was full of players and officials heading Down Under for the Australian Open.

On Thursday morning (Australian time) Sandgren revealed he had tested positive to coronavirus on Monday, and was expecting to miss the Australian Open flight.

It was the second positive coronavirus result Sandgren had returned after initially being diagnosed in November.

However just one hour later the 29-year-old tweeted: “Update: maybe I can fly tmrw (tomorrow).”

A few minutes after that the situation had changed rapidly - and it was apparently all thanks to Tennis Australia boss and Aussie Open tournament director Craig Tiley.

“Wait hold on I think they are trying to get me on 15 min after the plane was supposed to depart.. my bags still aren’t checked lol,” he wrote.

“Wow I’m on the plane. Maybe I just held my breath too long.

“Craig Tiley is a wizard.”

The bizarre incident led to mass confusion from tennis fans and Sandgren’s followers on Twitter, given the tight restrictions around international travel and the fact he was sharing the plane with hundreds of others bound for Melbourne.

Victoria’s coronavirus taskforce has since confirmed Sandgren has recovered from his previous COVID-19 infection and is shedding viral particles.

“Every person arriving from overseas to participate in the Australian Open is required to take a coronavirus (COVID-19) test 72 hours before departing,” a COVID-19 Quarantine Victoria spokesperson said.

“For people who have previously tested positive and have since recovered, it is common to shed viral fragments for some time - which can trigger another positive result.

“Any person who returns a positive test result has their medical and case history reviewed by a team of public health experts. Only those who are determined to be recovered and no longer infectious will be allowed to travel to Australia.”

After copping severe backlash for his first tweets about taking an international flight with coronavirus in his system, Sandgren insisted that he was perfectly healthy.

“A lot (of) couch virologists out there. My two tests were less than 8 weeks a part,” Sandgren wrote.

“I was sick in November, totally healthy now. There’s not a single documented case where I would be contagious at this point. Totally recovered!”

Tennis Australia had earlier said Sandgren’s case was assessed alongside detailed medical records “to ensure they are not infectious before checking in” for the flight.

“Players and their teams are tested every day from their arrival in Australia, a much stricter process than for anyone else in hotel quarantine,” a TA spokesperson said.

Meanwhile, the charter flight was forced to return to its gate after its initial departure but it’s understood the issue had nothing to do with Sandgren’s situation.

Elsewhere in the tennis world, US Open champion Dominic Thiem’s coach Nicolas Massu was not on TA’s charter flight after receiving word that he had tested positive for COVID-19.

About 1200 players, officials and support staff will be landing in Melbourne on 15 charter flights that will arrive from Thursday evening (AEDT).

They will quarantine in three Melbourne hotels - the Grand Hyatt, Pullman Albert Park and View Melbourne - for two weeks before the Australian Open begins on February 8.

They will be permitted to leave their hotel rooms for up to five hours a day for training and treatment, in order to reduce the risk of injury, and will do so in a secure training bubble overseen by COVID-19 Quarantine Victoria staff.

Dedicated training venues have been set up at Melbourne Park, the National Tennis Centre and Albert Reserve - each linked to a specific quarantine hotel.

https://7news.com.au/sport/tennis/covid ... -c-1955248



Mirjana Vasiljevic @I5510Mirjana Replying to @AustralianOpen and @TennysSandgren
Verdasco and Dzumhur were eliminated from RG for the same reason! They even not be allowed to be tested again. Sandgren flys by special flight as a king thanks to AO authorities

by ti-amie

by ti-amie




by JazzNU So Andy, asshat, Madison, Denis Kudla, and Massu all with positives. Seems like a lot, but maybe it's just because they are players we know.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU Just looking briefly at different comments on social media and articles at the fallout from this, it seems like it'd be much less of a PR hit to have made him stay home than allow him in. Tennis community may not have liked it, but the Aussie public appears to be very upset with this. Things still appear to be super strict there and this is coming off as something a privileged few would be able to do.

I don't think it's just because the who is not a likable guy. But if Andy is somehow allowed to travel outside of the previous set days, I guess we'll see if there's a similar reaction to an exemption being made.

by meganfernandez
JazzNU wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:33 pm So Andy, asshat, Madison, Denis Kudla, and Massu all with positives. Seems like a lot, but maybe it's just because they are players we know.
Now Davidovich Fokina, too

by JTContinental Sloane Stephens announced on her Twitter feed today that her aunt and grandmother have both died of covid since Christmas

by ponchi101 A bit of confusing reporting as the number changes between 2 or 3 players, but it seems that one of the planes carrying as much as 47 players had that number of players testing positive for Covid upon arrival to Australia.
Now all those players need to quarantine completely.
Not starting well. And I don't understand. Here in lowly COL we can get an antigen test, with results, in 4 hours. Players could have done that during the day prior to departure.

by Deuce This is bizarre.
The article states "Players and officials were supposed to have received a negative COVID-19 tests before they boarded their flights. The people who tested positive on arrival have not been publicly identified."

One would assume that everyone on those flights (not just "players and officials") would have to test negative just before getting on the plane - literally just hours before.
Yet 3 people on those flights tested positive upon landing.
How does this occur? Different types of tests at the take-off and landing points? Either the negative or positive test is inaccurate? The 3 people who tested positive upon landing in Australia were not tested before boarding the plane?

by meganfernandez
Deuce wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:26 pm This is bizarre.
The article states "Players and officials were supposed to have received a negative COVID-19 tests before they boarded their flights. The people who tested positive on arrival have not been publicly identified."

One would assume that everyone on those flights (not just "players and officials") would have to test negative just before getting on the plane - literally just hours before.
Yet 3 people on those flights tested positive upon landing.
How does this occur? Different types of tests at the take-off and landing points? Either the negative or positive test is inaccurate? The 3 people who tested positive upon landing in Australia were not tested before boarding the plane?
I would have thought the negative test had to be a day or two before the flight. If it's hours before, they would be doing a rapid test somewhere on the day of the flight. I don't know... it's a crazy virus, some tests are wrong, etc. Glad they are testing as much as they are.

by meganfernandez Andreescu's coach tested positive in Melbourne. He said he tested negative before the flight -and revealed it was within the 72-hour window before departure, so that was the lead time we were wondering about. Said he followed all protocols in Dubai, where they were training, and doesn't know how he contracted it. Said everyone else on his team tested negative in Melbourne... but of course that could change.

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:37 pm A bit of confusing reporting as the number changes between 2 or 3 players, but it seems that one of the planes carrying as much as 47 players had that number of players testing positive for Covid upon arrival to Australia.
Now all those players need to quarantine completely.
Not starting well. And I don't understand. Here in lowly COL we can get an antigen test, with results, in 4 hours. Players could have done that during the day prior to departure.

The ESPN story has no players testing positive on the affected flights. Players quarantined because they were deemed close contacts from being on the flights, but that it was aircrew and a passenger that was not a player. Two on the LA flight and one on the flight from Abu Dhabi.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:58 pm Andreescu's coach tested positive in Melbourne. He said he tested negative before the flight -and revealed it was within the 72-hour window before departure, so that was the lead time we were wondering about. Said he followed all protocols in Dubai, where they were training, and doesn't know how he contracted it. Said everyone else on his team tested negative in Melbourne... but of course that could change.
This gave me a bit of a laugh. I personally wasn't wondering how anyone on Bianca's team would've gotten it. I'm guessing he did follow protocols in Dubai, but Bianca wasn't competing there, just training, so she wasn't under the same restrictions as others for whatever the tournament imposed. Bianca has posted plenty during her time there, and among other places, she's been to the pool, to the museum, to some very cool looking dinners. I watched one video super confused about the masking at one restaurant because yikes, it felt like a potential problem. So though they were very likely following all local protocols, by no means were they just training. Do I know for certain he was with her at all of these places? No. But definitely at the museum and at least one of the dinners.


Players have a nice set up for quarantine all things considered. Maybe there are some exceptions, but it seems as if hotel rooms have rather expansive floor to ceiling windows, so a ton of light coming in and they have an exercise bike in their room too.

by Deuce
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:44 pm Bianca has posted plenty during her time there, and among other places, she's been to the pool, to the museum, to some very cool looking dinners. I watched one video super confused about the masking at one restaurant because yikes, it felt like a potential problem. So though they were very likely following all local protocols, by no means were they just training. Do I know for certain he was with her at all of these places? No. But definitely at the museum and at least one of the dinners.
^ This is disappointing - if not very surprising. At best, this behaviour is careless. At worst, it is incredibly irresponsible and selfish.
This seems to be a prime example of the privilege and feeling of invincibility that so often afflicts 'rich and famous' people... sigh...

After being told every single day for 10 months exactly what we should and should not be doing, it is absolutely astounding that anyone would think that it's perfectly fine to do what one normally did in foreign countries before the virus - go sightseeing, go to museums, visit restaurants, explore the cities...

This has turned into a big mess, with all that's happening now with some players not wearing masks on the flights, the positive tests, the Australian citizens objecting to the players coming in, etc. And it will very likely get even more messy in the days to come. It's becoming rather apparent that scheduling the Aussie Open at this time was not a good idea.

I love tennis as much as anyone. But I value people's health more than I love tennis. Is it worth all of this trouble - and potential danger - just to hold a bloody tennis tournament so that the players can have fun and make some money, and fans be entertained?
My answer is no. Time to cut the losses and have everyone go home - literally HOME to their houses, condos, mansions, whatever - (after the quarantine period for some), and start playing again only when this virus is under control - even if that takes a year or two.

by meganfernandez
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:17 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:37 pm A bit of confusing reporting as the number changes between 2 or 3 players, but it seems that one of the planes carrying as much as 47 players had that number of players testing positive for Covid upon arrival to Australia.
Now all those players need to quarantine completely.
Not starting well. And I don't understand. Here in lowly COL we can get an antigen test, with results, in 4 hours. Players could have done that during the day prior to departure.

The ESPN story has no players testing positive on the affected flights. Players quarantined because they were deemed close contacts from being on the flights, but that it was aircrew and a passenger that was not a player. Two on the LA flight and one on the flight from Abu Dhabi.
i believe Allie Riske's trainer or coach was one of the positives.

by ti-amie
meganfernandez wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:43 am
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:17 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:37 pm A bit of confusing reporting as the number changes between 2 or 3 players, but it seems that one of the planes carrying as much as 47 players had that number of players testing positive for Covid upon arrival to Australia.
Now all those players need to quarantine completely.
Not starting well. And I don't understand. Here in lowly COL we can get an antigen test, with results, in 4 hours. Players could have done that during the day prior to departure.

The ESPN story has no players testing positive on the affected flights. Players quarantined because they were deemed close contacts from being on the flights, but that it was aircrew and a passenger that was not a player. Two on the LA flight and one on the flight from Abu Dhabi.
i believe Allie Riske's trainer or coach was one of the positives.
Last night they said it was Lauren Davis coach.

by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:58 am
meganfernandez wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:43 am
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:17 pm


The ESPN story has no players testing positive on the affected flights. Players quarantined because they were deemed close contacts from being on the flights, but that it was aircrew and a passenger that was not a player. Two on the LA flight and one on the flight from Abu Dhabi.
i believe Allie Riske's trainer or coach was one of the positives.
Last night they said it was Lauren Davis coach.

Oh, that's right. Also, there are now 4 infected flights. And Ons Jabeur just replied to me on Twitter. :) This is probably a good time to talk to a favorite player on social media, if they are quarantined. Nothing else to do. Ons is up right now!

I think it's too brutal to not let someone go outside for fresh air for 2 weeks, no matter how nice the hotel room is. I hope they find a way to at least get these people outside for a little bit each day, safely. Somewhere at the hotel - even the roof. Give them whatever mask you have to, clear the way, disinfect every area they walk through. It can and should be done.

Ons posted a video of her and two people jogging around connected hotel rooms. They are standard rooms, standard size, not the suites some players have posted from. They're on Day 3. The video alone made me stir crazy.

by JazzNU
Deuce wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:36 am ^ This is disappointing - if not very surprising. At best, this behaviour is careless. At worst, it is incredibly irresponsible and selfish.
This seems to be a prime example of the privilege and feeling of invincibility that so often afflicts 'rich and famous' people... sigh...

After being told every single day for 10 months exactly what we should and should not be doing, it is absolutely astounding that anyone would think that it's perfectly fine to do what one normally did in foreign countries before the virus - go sightseeing, go to museums, visit restaurants, explore the cities...
Most of the things I mentioned were on IG Stories, so can't be posted and they also disappear after 24 hours. But she did post one of the restaurant visits on her regular page. It's the one that made me cringe the most of what she posted. That guy is just so close to her and neither is wearing a mask and you'd have to assume he's doing this at many tables a night. Just seems careless even if it's allowed there. Who knows where the coach caught it, but things like this don't inspire confidence that the best and safest decisions were being made over the last 3 weeks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJTueEcgJoJ/

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:07 am Oh, that's right. Also, there are now 4 infected flights. And Ons Jabeur just replied to me on Twitter. :) This is probably a good time to talk to a favorite player on social media, if they are quarantined. Nothing else to do. Ons is up right now!
Great that you heard from Ons.

Were you told how the room assignments work? Like everyone gets a regular room on us, but if you want to upgrade to a suite, you have to pay extra and we'll make it happen or something like that? Seeded players with better rooms?


What do you mean there are 4 affected flights?!? Yikes! So how many players are affected now? This is really becoming a mess.

by meganfernandez
JazzNU wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:14 am
meganfernandez wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:07 am Oh, that's right. Also, there are now 4 infected flights. And Ons Jabeur just replied to me on Twitter. :) This is probably a good time to talk to a favorite player on social media, if they are quarantined. Nothing else to do. Ons is up right now!
Great that you heard from Ons.

Were you told how the room assignments work? Like everyone gets a regular room on us, but if you want to upgrade to a suite, you have to pay extra and we'll make it happen or something like that? Seeded players with better rooms?


What do you mean there are 4 affected flights?!? Yikes! So how many players are affected now? This is really becoming a mess.
I'm afraid I don't know how room assignments work, but ranking might be a good guess - at least as a starting point for options to upgrade, if there was one. Ons should be able to afford an upgrade and she appears to be in a standard room (the door was open to a connecting room). Go on Twitter and ask Ons how it worked! :)

Sven Groenfeld said there are now 4 infected flights, yes. I didn't see an updated of affected players, but will keep an eye out. [edit - I wonder if he misspoke and it's really just 4 people on the previously reported flights. That's what I'm finding. The fourth is someone working in broadcast.]

by dmforever I'm kind of overwhelmed by just how many of them don't get it, or don't care. It's really really disappointing. Kuzzie posting that video is just insane. And the picture of Novak unmasked in a shuttle bus, sitting right behind the driver, is just pathetic. Artem Sitak seems to be one of the few who does get it. Yaaaay, someone I can root for. He may end up being the only one. :(

I was looking forward to seeing some Grand Slam tennis, but the behavior described by this thread has kind of put a damper on that. Sigh. :(

Kevin

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:55 am
Deuce wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:36 am ^ This is disappointing - if not very surprising. At best, this behaviour is careless. At worst, it is incredibly irresponsible and selfish.
This seems to be a prime example of the privilege and feeling of invincibility that so often afflicts 'rich and famous' people... sigh...

After being told every single day for 10 months exactly what we should and should not be doing, it is absolutely astounding that anyone would think that it's perfectly fine to do what one normally did in foreign countries before the virus - go sightseeing, go to museums, visit restaurants, explore the cities...
Most of the things I mentioned were on IG Stories, so can't be posted and they also disappear after 24 hours. But she did post one of the restaurant visits on her regular page. It's the one that made me cringe the most of what she posted. That guy is just so close to her and neither is wearing a mask and you'd have to assume he's doing this at many tables a night. Just seems careless even if it's allowed there. Who knows where the coach caught it, but things like this don't inspire confidence that the best and safest decisions were being made over the last 3 weeks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJTueEcgJoJ/
There was a lot of surprise when this was posted. I think he's a celebrity chef in his part of the world but with C19 having its way with all of us both he and Bianca are wrong here.

by mmmm8
ti-amie wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:04 pm
There was a lot of surprise when this was posted. I think he's a celebrity chef in his part of the world but with C19 having its way with all of us both he and Bianca are wrong here.
It's the famous and ridiculous Salt Bae


They seem to be as irresponsible as a majority of people, sadly. Of course, they have more to lose at the moment than even just getting a life-threatening disease.

by JazzNU
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:05 am It's the famous and ridiculous Salt Bae
Thanks for the name. Because of that I'm realizing he's the guy from the famous gif



by shtexas Has anyone mentioned Pablo Cuevas's cute little quarantine videos from his hotel room? Surf day, spa day, office day.

by ti-amie
shtexas wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:29 am Has anyone mentioned Pablo Cuevas's cute little quarantine videos from his hotel room? Surf day, spa day, office day.
I saw this one that I assume is Spa Day. :D


by ponchi101 I have seen a couple from the players. Almost all of them have lifted a mattress against a wall and are hitting out against it. The amazing thing is that, in such a small space, they get full control of the ball and racquet.
The players are working hard in their rooms. They may not be totally out of shape by the time the Open starts.

by JTContinental Those mattresses will be, though

by ponchi101 Between the mattresses and the exercise they are doing in the rooms, I think the hotel will suffer a loss. You know they are basically tearing the rooms apart, just to be able to stay in shape.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:19 pm I have seen a couple from the players. Almost all of them have lifted a mattress against a wall and are hitting out against it. The amazing thing is that, in such a small space, they get full control of the ball and racquet.
The players are working hard in their rooms. They may not be totally out of shape by the time the Open starts.
Yeah, I actually think they'll be fine. Not 100% but not out of shape enough to change their chances dramatically, unless it affects their confidence. They'll have a week of practice and then some of them will play their way into better shape. But what do I know, I'm not an elite athlete.

by meganfernandez This is why I said, in one of these threads, that I'm losing sympathy for people who contract Covid when they have the means to take all precautions. This might not be true, but if it is, WTF?


by JazzNU I mean, if he's being reckless, sure. But is he being reckless here? The announcement about him testing positive was a week ago now. But that was the announcement, not necessarily when he actually tested positive. If he's testing negative and it's been 10 days since he tested negative, then this really isn't an issue.

by ponchi101 And Andy is not the "casually stupid" type. He has proven that through his career. Maybe he is over the threshold.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:48 pm And Andy is not the "casually stupid" type. He has proven that through his career. Maybe he is over the threshold.
It's common sense - don't go to a coffee shop right now, especially in a place where cases are high, unless you seriously have to. Is that so hard? I don't care if you're pretty sure you're immune and pretty sure you aren't going to pass it along. He doesn't know for sure he's not still contagious. Why even take any tiny chance, especially since the biggest risk isn't to you at that point, it's to others? It's mind-numbingly cavalier. Which is why I don't believe he's acting any differently than he did before he caught Covid.

by ti-amie I'm surprised Murray would do this.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:25 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:48 pm And Andy is not the "casually stupid" type. He has proven that through his career. Maybe he is over the threshold.
It's common sense - don't go to a coffee shop right now, especially in a place where cases are high, unless you seriously have to. Is that so hard? I don't care if you're pretty sure you're immune and pretty sure you aren't going to pass it along. He doesn't know for sure he's not still contagious. Why even take any tiny chance, especially since the biggest risk isn't to you at that point, it's to others? It's mind-numbingly cavalier. Which is why I don't believe he's acting any differently than he did before he caught Covid.
Unless you've seen something else, doesn't seem like he's making an assumption on his own. Like his mom said something to the effect of, he's been out as of today and can start practicing again. I'm not thinking this is reckless the what you are.

by skatingfan Biden administration has announced that they are going to introduce a quarantine for travelers entering the US. No details, or timeline at this point, but I wonder what impact this might have on Indian Wells & Miami & other tournaments in the US in February, March, & April if players have to do another quarantine when they leave Australia.

by JazzNU One tournament was recently canceled, the one in Texas, can't remember the name, but a clay court one for the men. New York was previously cancelled. IW isn't happening anytime soon. So only Miami and Charleston would be an issue. There is sometimes an exemption for athletes and others, but it almost always comes with some sort of testing regime that needs to be pre-approved. Guess we'll see. It's a freaking mess here, they've been covering how much of a mess it is we're finding out today, so getting tennis played definitely isn't top of the list. It may not happen. Maybe skip straight to the European clay if things are okay there.

by ponchi101
skatingfan wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:10 am Biden administration has announced that they are going to introduce a quarantine for travelers entering the US. No details, or timeline at this point, but I wonder what impact this might have on Indian Wells & Miami & other tournaments in the US in February, March, & April if players have to do another quarantine when they leave Australia.
My plan to go to Colorado next week was shot down today because of that announcement. You would be forced to quarantine at the port of entry. Seeing as there are so few flights nowadays in the USA, you could not, for example, enter via Florida and then connect next day (my plan). You would need to stay 14 days there.
As you say, Miami and IW are looking at some really impossible logistics.

by JazzNU I think quarantine is 7 days, not 14 for travel reasons. Doesn't take effect until early next week. I think they said Tuesday.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie So Badosa tested positive on Day 7 of her quarantine therefore she would've been caught under these guidelines if I understand correctly?

by ponchi101 It seems yes. 7 days quarantine and THEN you get your second PCR.
Let's get honest, world. All national borders should be locked down. We are heading there again.

by ti-amie After reading about what is happening in Denmark and dry's post on the global outlook it's hard to imagine anything but total shutdown is coming again.

by Deuce Wait a minute... Weren't we all told that things will get significantly better once the vaccines arrive?
Well, the vaccines arrived in several locations a month ago... and things are not getting better. In many places, things are actually getting worse.
Optimism is nice and pretty and comfortable... But realism is the most efficient way to solve problems.
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:51 pm It seems yes. 7 days quarantine and THEN you get your second PCR.
Let's get honest, world. All national borders should be locked down.
^ Except for professional athletes, of course. They should be permitted to travel anywhere they want on the planet - both to perform in their given sport, and to vacation. Because they're 'special'.
Sigh.

by Suliso
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:51 pm It seems yes. 7 days quarantine and THEN you get your second PCR.
Let's get honest, world. All national borders should be locked down. We are heading there again.
Probably, but there will always be exceptions for commuters and freight. So will it really make any difference with a more virulent strain of the virus?

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:05 pm After reading about what is happening in Denmark and dry's post on the global outlook it's hard to imagine anything but total shutdown is coming again.
I guess I need to read about Denmark.


As for things getting better once the vaccine is here. At least here, the medical professionals never said that. The administration trying to downplay hundreds of thousands of deaths did. But the medical and public health professionals were always very clear that it would be several months after the vaccines arrived before things started to get better and a bit longer than that before we got back to a degree of normalcy.

by JazzNU This is only half of the article, the part relating to the new tournament. The rest of the article is more of a catchup on other things like Dayana, Andy Murray, and Sousa missing the AO. Follow the link if you want to read the entire thing.


Extra WTA tournament for lockdown players


An extra women's tennis tournament catering for players serving 14-day hard lockdowns in Melbourne will be added to the calendar ahead of next month's Australian Open.

It means six tournaments will be staged simultaneously early next month ahead of the Open, which is due to begin on February 8.

There will now be three WTA 500 events with the two originally planned to run from Sunday, January 31 to Saturday, February 6 now having slightly reduced draw sizes.

The new tournament will be staged from February 3 until February 7 and will cater for players who have not been able to train.

Two ATP tournaments will be pushed back 24 hours to start on Monday, February 1 and the ATP Cup will get underway a day later.

A total of 72 players remain in hard lockdown after three chartered flights to the Australian Open returned positive COVID-19 case.

They include former Australian Open champions Victoria Azarenka and Angelique Kerber as well as 2019 US Open winner Bianca Andreescu.

Unable to leave their rooms to train, the new tournament is an olive branch to athletes given the disadvantages they faced in the build up to a two-week grand slam event.

"This has been a particularly challenging time for the athletes in hard lockdown and we, along with the WTA and ATP, aim to do everything we can to help," Australian Open tournament director Craig Tiley said.

"These changes to the lead-in events have been made to give the 72 players a little bit of extra time to help them prepare. We also will prioritise them for things like practice sessions, gym and ice baths."


NEW AUSTRALIAN OPEN LEAD-IN SCHEDULE

* WTA 500 Gippsland Trophy - January 31-February 6

* WTA 500 Yarra Valley Classic - January 31-February 6

* ATP 250 Great Ocean Road Open - February 1-7

* ATP 250 Murray River Open - February 1-7

* ATP CUP - February 2-6

* WTA 500 Grampians Trophy - February 3-7


https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... wn-players

by Togtdyalttai Do we know if all of these tournaments are happening at Melbourne Park, or are some happening elsewhere in the city?

by JazzNU
New Australian Schedule To Help Players In Lockdown


ATP Cup and Melbourne ATP 250 events pushed back by one day


The Australian Open lead-in week has been revamped to help give the 72 players in the 14-day quarantine lockdown the best possible preparation and training opportunities.

Following extensive consultation between the players and the Tours, Tennis Australia has designed a new schedule, taking into account the limited time many players have had to prepare.

The Murray River Open, the Great Ocean Road Open and the ATP Cup will be pushed back by 24 hours. The two ATP 250 events will commence on Monday 1 February, each featuring an increased singles main draw size of 56, while the ATP Cup will start on Tuesday 2 February.

“This has been a particularly challenging time for the athletes in hard lockdown and we, along with the WTA and ATP, aim to do everything we can to help,” Australian Open Tournament Director Craig Tiley said.

“These changes to the lead-in events have been made to give the 72 players a little bit of extra time to help them prepare. We also will prioritise them for things like practice sessions, gym and ice baths.”

ATP Chairman Andrea Gaudenzi also added, “Our number one goal with Tennis Australia and the WTA was to be as fair as possible to the players coming out of a hard quarantine.

“The extra 24 hours before the first ATP Tour events together with priority over practice and preparation will help. We are eager to start what I am sure will be a fantastic summer of tennis in Melbourne in front of our great Australian fans.”


There will now be three WTA 500 events - the two originally planned from Sunday 31 January to Saturday 6 February, with slightly reduced draw sizes. A third event, for those players who have been unable to train, will commence on Wednesday 3 and finish on Sunday 7 February.

“This revised schedule comprised of three WTA 500 events in the week leading into the upcoming Australian Open will allow for our athletes coming out of the respected quarantine period to properly focus on their preparation in a return to competition,” WTA CEO Steve Simon said.

“We appreciate the positive spirit of collaboration demonstrated by our friends at Tennis Australia and the ATP as these solutions were worked through in recent days. All of our players appreciate the opportunity to be here in Melbourne and look forward to getting on the court to compete and entertain the terrific fans that are here with some great tennis over the weeks ahead in what will be a very a safe and healthy environment.”

Tickets start from $20 for adults and just $5 for kids and will go on sale this week.


Image

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/austral ... nuary-2021

by Togtdyalttai
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:16 am
New Australian Schedule To Help Players In Lockdown


ATP Cup and Melbourne ATP 250 events pushed back by one day


The Australian Open lead-in week has been revamped to help give the 72 players in the 14-day quarantine lockdown the best possible preparation and training opportunities.

Following extensive consultation between the players and the Tours, Tennis Australia has designed a new schedule, taking into account the limited time many players have had to prepare.

The Murray River Open, the Great Ocean Road Open and the ATP Cup will be pushed back by 24 hours. The two ATP 250 events will commence on Monday 1 February, each featuring an increased singles main draw size of 56, while the ATP Cup will start on Tuesday 2 February.

“This has been a particularly challenging time for the athletes in hard lockdown and we, along with the WTA and ATP, aim to do everything we can to help,” Australian Open Tournament Director Craig Tiley said.

“These changes to the lead-in events have been made to give the 72 players a little bit of extra time to help them prepare. We also will prioritise them for things like practice sessions, gym and ice baths.”

ATP Chairman Andrea Gaudenzi also added, “Our number one goal with Tennis Australia and the WTA was to be as fair as possible to the players coming out of a hard quarantine.

“The extra 24 hours before the first ATP Tour events together with priority over practice and preparation will help. We are eager to start what I am sure will be a fantastic summer of tennis in Melbourne in front of our great Australian fans.”


There will now be three WTA 500 events - the two originally planned from Sunday 31 January to Saturday 6 February, with slightly reduced draw sizes. A third event, for those players who have been unable to train, will commence on Wednesday 3 and finish on Sunday 7 February.

“This revised schedule comprised of three WTA 500 events in the week leading into the upcoming Australian Open will allow for our athletes coming out of the respected quarantine period to properly focus on their preparation in a return to competition,” WTA CEO Steve Simon said.

“We appreciate the positive spirit of collaboration demonstrated by our friends at Tennis Australia and the ATP as these solutions were worked through in recent days. All of our players appreciate the opportunity to be here in Melbourne and look forward to getting on the court to compete and entertain the terrific fans that are here with some great tennis over the weeks ahead in what will be a very a safe and healthy environment.”

Tickets start from $20 for adults and just $5 for kids and will go on sale this week.


Image

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/austral ... nuary-2021
Togtdyalttai wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:14 am Do we know if all of these tournaments are happening at Melbourne Park, or are some happening elsewhere in the city?
Never mind then.

by ponchi101 How do you stage the WTA/250 on the second week of the AO, at the same venue?

by JazzNU That's not a big deal actually. Second week of a slam uses substantially fewer courts. Juniors has already been moved to later in the year, and that operates like a small tournament taking place at the same venue, so plenty of courts open to host the separate event during the second week.

by ponchi101 So basically... consolation bracket :D

by JazzNU Well sure, I think the description of the tournament included something like "to give players that lose early at the AO a chance to practice and play."

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think in the same way players had to come to Australia on specific charter flights, they might need to leave that way too. So likely a nice inclusion recognizing that those players losing early that tend to leave soon after they are bounced, sometimes to get into the draw at a challenger, can't this time around.

by Deuce What a mess... :roll:

by ti-amie TBH I am totally confused about all of this.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:58 am TBH I am totally confused about all of this.
I think we can say that tennis will start being played in another week and the AO will start in about 2 weeks. Beyond that I think we're mostly guessing at the details. I'm not sure TA isn't guessing at some of the details.

Several things are different than I thought they'd be. Like I've got questions. But at this point I'm like whatever I guess. 🤷🏾‍♀️

by the Moz The tennis calendar for 2021 is destined to be wacky. I'm with Jazz :thumbsup:


I just hope we enjoy the ride 8-) 8-) 8-)

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:33 am How do you stage the WTA/250 on the second week of the AO, at the same venue?
For those who aren't still in the AO main draw. I guess they'll have enough courts. Theres no Junior AO this year, so that freed up courts.

Schedule, simplified:
This Friday: Adelaide exhibition
Next week, various start dates: A (expletive)-ton. ATP Cup, 2 ATP tournaments, 3 WTA tournaments, all at Melbourne Park. Everyone's playing something.
Two weeks from now: AO week 1
Three weeks from now: AO week 2, WTA 250
Four weeks from now: Adelaide

Edit: My S expletive is censored! Haha!

by ponchi101 I did that ;) The system has an automatic censoring mode, and all the variations of F, S, N, the other F get that treatment.
Gotta keep it suitable for the kids! ;)

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:05 pm I did that ;) The system has an automatic censoring mode, and all the variations of F, S, N, the other F get that treatment.
Gotta keep it suitable for the kids! ;)
We still get D and H, though?

Let's see... Damn it to hell!

Edit: Hell yeah! Hot damn!

by ponchi101 Oh, sure. I want to keep it decent, not chaste. I am ambivalent about the P word, as it can also denote a CAT, if somebody wants to go there.

by Suliso The quarantine is now over for some players (Iga just wrote on Twitter she's free) and will be for all by the end of tomorrow.

by JazzNU Paula Badosa was back on court practicing in the last day, so although I don't think tennis is doing any post-covid testing to verify that a person is truly recovered, she's clearly feeling much better and is planning to play the Aussie Open.

by texasniteowl Hmm...I haven't been checking, but CNN says: More than 500 Australian Open players and staff go into isolation after a hotel worker tests positive for Covid-19

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/world/au ... index.html

As a result, Andrews said 500 to 600 people staying at the hotel have been deemed "close contacts" and will have to isolate until they return a negative test.
He said that the situation should not impact the Australian Open itself, which is set to begin on Monday. Speaking on Thursday, Tennis Australia CEO Craig Tiley said that out of the 507 people being tested, 160 of them were players.
Tiley said that the testing should be completed by 5 p.m., local time Thursday, saying that the players are "casual contacts" and there was a low probability of any of them testing positive.
The draw for the Australian Open has been postponed by a day to Friday while the testing takes place.
All play at Melbourne Park tennis center set for Thursday has been suspended to allow for the players and staff to be tested. The Tennis Australia boss said the affected warm up matches would be rescheduled, time permitting. "Everything remains as is, just with a day delay, until further notice," Tiley said.

by skatingfan Do we know if there are any quarantine rules for any other countries for events coming up in the next couple months? Based on the announcement from the Biden administration from a couple weeks ago it sounded like a quarantine might be coming, but I haven't heard any follow up, and I'm not clear on the details of any requirements for European countries that host tournaments in the next few weeks.

by ponchi101 ESPN L. America is reporting that the GOV of Victoria has detected 5 new cases and the city (Melbourne) will go under lock down.
The proposal will be that there will be no spectators, as people will be again in total shutdown of the city. Crowds may go back to live action in 5 days.
Yet to be confirmed.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:36 am ESPN L. America is reporting that the GOV of Victoria has detected 5 new cases and the city (Melbourne) will go under lock down.
The proposal will be that there will be no spectators, as people will be again in total shutdown of the city. Crowd may go back to live action in 5 days.
Yet to be confirmed.
I wonder if players, coaches and tournament staff are still getting tested regularly.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:40 am
I wonder if players, coaches and tournament staff are still getting tested regularly.
I don't think they are. By all indications prior to this, the testing stopped when they were allowed to move from the quarantine hotels. I think that's part of why they had to pause play last week and test everyone. And not sure that pause last week prompted a protocol change to that.

by JazzNU Pretty low ranked player, but on the radar because he played for Team Greece at the ATP Cup. Potential problems in Melbourne after this announcement. He added the update to clarify things, but clearly this remains concerning.




by ponchi101 I would not want to be Stefanos right now. Pervolarakis was his doubles partner for the ATO cup.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Must be because Florida is doing so incredibly well in managing the virus... :roll: :x

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:54 pm

Starting at $5,150/seat? Now, that's for 22 sessions, but like, what? And that's the general package. Luxury package is going to close the gap on that lost revenue even more. Really appealing to the commoners I see Miami Open.

But I'm happy to see some limits on the seating either way. DeSantis is perfectly fine with letting them fill every single seat, very glad they aren't being that version of reckless to try to make up for last year's lost revenue.

by JazzNU Not sure if this was posted already. I didn't see it.










by JazzNU ^^ I remain so confused about Novak speaking in this manner. He keeps talking like he's the head of the ATP Player's Council and to my knowledge he resigned that position for his failed association and didn't get his role back. Did I miss something?

by ponchi101 You missed TELLING HIM exactly that. ;)
Of course, he can speak his mind. He has some points: the number of injuries is high indeed.
His problem is his short memory. If only he had NOT held a tournament in his home country, at the height of the pandemic, with no bubble...

by JazzNU I don't mind him speaking his mind at all about the injuries and the like. Don't even mind the general talk of the bubble despite the ill-conceived and even worse executed Adria Tour. It's the "I'm waiting for answers" like he's waiting to tell "his players" the updates and speaking for players with the "majority don't want to move ahead." It's like he's still in charge of something and speaking for players after polling them. I completely get he has a powerful voice, but he also publicly ditched the ATP, so I don't get him now thinking he's still the head of anything.

by JazzNU Zverev talked about the bubble idea at his press conference. And specifically said he talked with Novak and with Vasek Pospisil. So it legitimately seems like these guys broke off, started their failed association during a pandemic, flailed out, and even though they aren't part of the ATP Player's Council, they are going around acting as if they are. I don't get it. And I'd have a hard time believing those are the right two speaking on player's behalf with the ATP.

I know others are working behind the scenes. There were comments before about Novak not being the only one doing something about players' concerns, he's just the one who feels the need to go public with it.

by ponchi101 So basically: coupsters.

by mmmm8 Do we know that the player association failed for sure? I think they're still trying to make it happen and that's what we are seeing. Not saying it's working, but I think this is what Djokovic is trying to position

by Fastbackss Marrakech has been cancelled

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:11 pm Do we know that the player association failed for sure? I think they're still trying to make it happen and that's what we are seeing. Not saying it's working, but I think this is what Djokovic is trying to position
I'm not quite sure if has stalled or pretty much dead. Didn't Novak and Vasek both try to get their positions back on the Players Council? That would suggest that they aren't going forward with the PTPA at the moment. But I don't know for sure. I doubt it's 100% dead. They seem pretty convinced that it's the right thing to do. I like the idea of a union for all players.

by ponchi101 That was the idea for the ATP. It was, and sort of still is, an union. But along the way, power was transferred to other entities that also have a say in the sport.
To me the question remains the same: what is the difference between this PTPA and the ATP? What does it bring to the players that the ATP can't?

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:51 pm
mmmm8 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:11 pm Do we know that the player association failed for sure? I think they're still trying to make it happen and that's what we are seeing. Not saying it's working, but I think this is what Djokovic is trying to position
I'm not quite sure if has stalled or pretty much dead. Didn't Novak and Vasek both try to get their positions back on the Players Council? That would suggest that they aren't going forward with the PTPA at the moment. But I don't know for sure. I doubt it's 100% dead. They seem pretty convinced that it's the right thing to do. I like the idea of a union for all players.
To my memory, when they tried to get back on the Player Council, one of them suggested they'd be doing both because the PTPA wasn't an opposition to the ATP. Who knows.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:59 pm That was the idea for the ATP. It was, and sort of still is, an union. But along the way, power was transferred to other entities that also have a say in the sport.
To me the question remains the same: what is the difference between this PTPA and the ATP? What does it bring to the players that the ATP can't?
I don't think the players can have the leverage they need or want within the ATP while the organization also represents tournaments. And there might be technical/contractual levers that make it difficult that we aren't aware of. That's my understanding, even if I don't have the details - that even if it could work theoretically, it just doesn't, and maybe can't, because of the ATP's rules or power structure.

Generally, it's not a great idea for labor and management to be sibilngs.

by ti-amie
Translated from Spanish by Google
Guido Pella covid positive. Tell me about being unlucky.

by JazzNU Post moved to the appropriate thread.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:19 pm It should be in the Tournament and Tour announcements thread :)
Didn't even know we had that thread! Thanks

by ponchi101 With Conchita coming down with C19, does that put Garbiñe in some watch list?

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:57 pm With Conchita coming down with C19, does that put Garbiñe in some watch list?

Highly unlikely. Garbine has been back in Geneva for almost 2 weeks, so they likely weren't together since Melbourne. From Conchita's message it sounds as if she was tested in Spain prior to leaving for Doha and tested negative. But upon arrival, the test conducted in Doha was positive. That's my read of it. And given that Garbine was out practicing today, I think it's safe to say she's not considered a close contact in need of immediate quarantine.

by JazzNU
ATP Announces Player & Tournament COVID-19 Support Package


The package covers a range of areas including prize money at ATP 250 and ATP 500 events, and an update to the FedEx ATP Rankings system.


The ATP has announced a package of measures to support players and tournaments under continued COVID-19 conditions.

The package covers a range of areas including prize money at ATP 250 and ATP 500 events, and an update to the FedEx ATP Rankings system. It also introduces a new COVID-19 Protected Ranking provision to give players further security in the current environment, and an update to the number of player support team allowances on-site at events.


PRIZE MONEY LEVELS (ATP 250 & ATP 500) & BONUS POOL
Between the Australian Open and Wimbledon, minimum prize money levels for ATP 250 and ATP 500 tournaments will be raised to 80% and 60% respectively, from 50%.

Increases, which equate to a maximum expenditure of $5.2m, will be primarily funded through a redistribution of part of the ATP Bonus Pool, ordinarily distributed to the Top 12 eligible players at the end of the season. Redistribution of the funds has come with the support of the ATP Player Council, including Top 10 representatives Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal.

Andrea Gaudenzi, ATP Chairman, said: “Our tournaments’ revenues continue to be severely impacted by restrictions on ticket sales, and a substantial improvement on this front looks unlikely before mid-year. Our focus is to ensure the Tour continues supporting as many players as possible and I would like to thank the top-ranked players and the Player Council for supporting this measure, which will help improve conditions for the larger player group over the coming months.”


FEDEX ATP RANKINGS UPDATE
The ATP has extended the ‘Best Of’ logic for the FedEx ATP Rankings through the week of 9 August 2021 (inclusive of Toronto). Results from all events between 4 March – 5 August 2019, which were not played in 2020, will be extended a further 52 weeks and weighted at 50%. This reduction will occur at the originally designated drop date for each event and the ‘Best Of’ logic will only count the better of a player’s two scores from the same tour-level event.

For example, a player will be able to count either 50% of his 2019 Madrid result, or 100% of his 2021 Madrid result, whichever is greater, for the next 52 weeks.

Results from rescheduled 2020 events (Kitzbühel, Hamburg, Rome & Roland Garros) will also be included for an additional 52 weeks at 50% from their originally scheduled drop date and be compared against the 2021 event in a ‘Best Of’ logic. The 2019 edition of these four events will drop from the rankings as per their currently scheduled drop date.

In 2021, all results prior to Wimbledon will be counted as ‘Best of Other’ in a player’s rankings breakdown, with a review of subsequent events to follow. Automatic entry and commitment rules for the ATP Masters 1000s continue to apply with respect to eligibility for the ATP Bonus Pool.

At this time, it is anticipated that the rankings will resume with points dropping off on 52-week basis beginning 16 August 2021 (Cincinnati). Providing no further changes are made, this means that a traditional ranking, incorporating only results from the previous 52 weeks, will apply again on 15 August 2022.

The decision to retain 50% of points earned in 2019 during the period corresponding to the 2020 suspension, aims to provide players a measure of security in months ahead while travel restrictions and stringent health & safety measures continue to apply.


COVID-19 PROTECTED RANKING
Players who are out of competition for four consecutive weeks will be eligible for a COVID-19 Protected Ranking. This measure is designed to allow players greater flexibility in their scheduling without having a negative impact on their ability to enter future tournaments.

Eligible players will be granted four entry opportunities, excluding Grand Slams and/or the Olympic Games, using their ‘frozen’ ranking. Players will only be able to use their COVID-19 Protected Ranking for entry into as many ATP Masters 1000 events as they missed during their time away from competition.


ON-SITE PROTOCOLS
As part of an ongoing review of on-site health and safety protocols, the ATP has worked with tournaments to provide increased Player Support Team (PST) allocations, offered to players on a first-come, first-served basis.

Players have been restricted to +2 support team members at ATP tournaments as part of health & safety protocols implemented since the resumption of the Tour in August 2020. Additional PST members may now be permitted within specific on-site locations and the official hotel, subject to availability and full COVID-19 protocols.

The ATP continues to explore additional measures to provide increased flexibility for players, while continuing to prioritise health and safety.


COVID ISOLATION COSTS
The ATP has allocated up to $10,000 for each ATP Tour and ATP Challenger Tour event in 2021 to cover hotel costs that may arise from additional isolation or quarantine periods, required in the event of positive COVID-19 test results or close contact situations. As such, tournaments and players will be protected against incurring unanticipated costs related to health & safety.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/atp-ann ... march-2021

by ti-amie You can't please everyone...


by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:13 am You can't please everyone...
I'm seeing quite a few saying something along these lines...



by ti-amie I didn't make that connection. Obviously subtle doesn't work for me.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:44 am I didn't make that connection. Obviously subtle doesn't work for me.
You are not alone. Until I saw snide comments in the replies it didn't cross my mind and I read the entire press release.

One point that definitely holds some merit to me that I've seen in the replies, is the implications that this has on rankings for the Olympics. Again, not something that crossed my mind in my initial read of the release and who that favors.

by ti-amie Because of course it's Pat Cash



Pam Shriver @PHShriver
Replying to @TheRealPatCash
One of the silver linings of this pandemic is I feel I am attending a science class each day. I have learned a lot about the covid vaccine and how well they work. The science and facts about the vaccine is easily found and understood.

by ponchi101 He was shocked to hear about vaccinations. Because, of course, what other (expletive) option do we have?
It is one thing that really makes me angry. People that do not agree with your plan and then, when you ask them "Ok, let's hear what alternative you are proposing" tell you "oh, I don't know".
Shriver is 100%. If you don't know what is in the vaccine, you simply have not been paying attention.

by ti-amie

by Suliso I didn't like Roddick as a player, but off the court he's a fine fellow. Even has common sense which is not as common as it ought to be.

by Fastbackss Sidebar - can't remember if it was discussed here - but his recent podcast was solid. He has some perspectives and simple commentaries, both on mental and physical aspect of game.

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a ... 0510439378

by ti-amie

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:18 pm Because of course it's Pat Cash

Pam Shriver @PHShriver
Replying to @TheRealPatCash
One of the silver linings of this pandemic is I feel I am attending a science class each day. I have learned a lot about the covid vaccine and how well they work. The science and facts about the vaccine is easily found and understood.

Getting ratio'd. Don't think he expected that. Pam on the other hand, far surpassing him with her reply. Thank you Pam.

Also, Andy Roddick is great on TC Live.

by Deuce Do you think Mr. Cash would accept the vaccine if they included at least a pinch of intelligence and a dash of awareness in its ingredients?
Let's hope so.

by the Moz If a vaccine upped his douche bag levels he'd be all over it.

by JazzNU Timea Babos tested positive for covid. She has to quarantine in Charleston for the next 10. She's posting on IG, she has minor symptoms, but feels mostly okay.

by Deuce Don't the players have to stay in a bubble during tournaments?
It seems strange to see a player test positive during the last half of a tournament. How many times are they tested during a typical one week tournament? I would think they're tested every 2 or 3 days - but I don't know.
Of course, I suppose she could have contracted the virus sometime in between tournaments...

by JazzNU I don't know how often testing is occurring at any of these tournaments, I think each one has different rules, and few have offered up the kind of detail we got from the US Open last summer. Just as few have offered up details of the bubble environments in a similar way.

What I know for sure is that Florida as a state has no covid restrictions of any kind, and Miami Dade as a county has relatively few even though it's better than some parts of the state with asking something of its residents. So, while players technically had to stay in the bubble, that goes for when they are in the tournament. I'm not sure what happens once they lose, but I think it depends on the player. What I can say with 100% certainty is that not all players went from one bubble to the next. Some left the Miami bubble after they lost, enjoyed Florida and it's non-existent restrictions, and then traveled to Charleston and entered that bubble. Since Miami was a longer tournament, there was definitely time for this for all but maybe the winners, finalists, and semi-finalists. And I know this how I regularly do, players are dumb enough to put their business on social media entirely too often.

Timea says she went from one bubble to the next and has only been around other athletes. She also mentions she was around others masked. And well, I'm not saying they don't kinda wear masks, but if you've seen player's teams in the stands, it doesn't inspire much confidence that they are wearing masks when the camera is not rolling. Few seem to know how to wear one properly.

by Deuce
JazzNU wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:01 pm
Timea says she went from one bubble to the next and has only been around other athletes. She also mentions she was around others masked. And well, I'm not saying they don't kinda wear masks, but if you've seen player's teams in the stands, it doesn't inspire much confidence that they are wearing masks when the camera is not rolling. Few seem to know how to wear one properly.
^ Definitely.
The tournaments - and the ATP/WTA - should be doing a better job of enforcing the rules. If you're going to have a rule that everyone must wear a mask, even outdoors if you're close to other people for more than a minute or so (like coaches sitting with physios and/or parents to watch a match, for example), then it's ridiculous to allow them to wear the masks under their chin, under their nose, etc., as so many are doing. It's a complete farce.

by JazzNU Daniil Medvedev has tested positive for covid. Statement released by ATP related to Monte Carlo so posted in that thread.

by ponchi101 That makes how many players, ATP/WTA, coming out of Miami with covid?

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:59 pm That makes how many players, ATP/WTA, coming out of Miami with covid?
Miami? Daniil's last match there was March 31st. He's been in France training on clay for at least a week now.

by ti-amie I thought when the "Charleston Approach" was mentioned it was a reference to the tournament making the J&J vaccine available to those who wanted it.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:03 pm I thought when the "Charleston Approach" was mentioned it was a reference to the tournament making the J&J vaccine available to those who wanted it.
Nope, I meant that they'd ignore close contacts and let anyone he's around play if they test negative.

I may be wrong, but I haven't been under the impression most European countries have enough vaccine supply to make them available to non-residents where it wouldn't have much impact on residents getting vaccinated. But given I've heard nothing about Monaco's vaccine availability, this is just a guess.

by Suliso I think only Gibraltar has made available vaccines to healthy under 40 year olds in Europe so far (except medics).

by JazzNU FYI, this is the first week the ATP relaxed covid rules and allowed players that are local to stay at their homes if they have one. Many players, Medvedev included, have residences in Monte Carlo. This positive test might call into question allowing players outside of a hotel bubble even though they probably won't be able to ascertain where he caught it.

by ponchi101 Many players? Monte Carlo has like 5 full Davis Cup teams within its borders. ;)
I remember years ago reading that if you were a top player and wanted to train with somebody, you most likely only needed to go up or down two floors in your building and find another ranked pro.

by Suliso
JazzNU wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:43 pm FYI, this is the first week the ATP relaxed covid rules and allowed players that are local to stay at their homes if they have one. Many players, Medvedev included, have residences in Monte Carlo. This positive test might call into question allowing players outside of a hotel bubble even though they probably won't be able to ascertain where he caught it.
People also go home or to some training base during non tournament weeks.

by JazzNU I don't know of any other sport that doesn't go into daily testing, if not multiple times a day testing of all close contacts, when there's a positive covid test. I'm not sure how the tours and tennis tournaments landed on this as a strategy, but it seems rather odd.

by Fastbackss NASCAR doesn't require regular testing.

by ponchi101
Fastbackss wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:55 am NASCAR doesn't require regular testing.
There's a joke right there and I can't quite find it... :(

by ti-amie Apparently Camila Giorgi was very sick with C-19.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:54 am Apparently Camila Giorgi was very sick with C-19.
Hopefully she's okay now and won't have any long time side effects.

There were a few unspecified illness withdraws from Charleston that made me curious. In the case of Camila, she was most definitely enjoying the nightlife of Miami after losing there because, of course, she posted it on social media.

by ti-amie Key points:
There were complaints from tennis players about the two weeks of hard quarantine before this year's Australian Open

Australian Open organisers are understood to be willing to move the tournament to Dubai or Doha if an agreement on softer quarantine is not reached

The Melbourne Grand Prix is also having discussions about quarantine with the federal government


Australian Open could be forced offshore due to coronavirus border closure
By Catherine Murphy
Posted 2hhours ago, updated 8mminutes ago

The Australian Open could be forced offshore due to the federal government's budget prediction international borders will stay closed until mid-2022.

ABC Sport understands Dubai and Doha, which hosted men's and women's qualifying events ahead of this year's tournament in Melbourne, would be among the potential host cities if the year's opening grand slam needed to be relocated.

It is understood players would not be willing to go into hard quarantine in Australia in order to compete, as they did this year.

Players participating in WTA and ATP events around the world are being put in a bubble environment that allows them to train and compete without strict self-isolation.

When they arrive at events in the US and Europe they are required to isolate until they test negative to COVID-19, but are then free to move within the bubble.

The players' resistance to again spending two weeks in an Australian hotel means an offshore event is one of the scenarios being considered by Tennis Australia, if an agreement cannot be reached with the government.

The Australian Formula One Grand Prix also faces an uncertain future as the race, which has been moved from March to November, will need quarantine arrangements to be relaxed in order to proceed.

The Brazilian Grand Prix is scheduled for November 7, which is just two weeks before the Australian Grand Prix is due to be held.

If the Brazilian race goes ahead — an uncertainty due to the current COVID-19 rates in the country — it would be impossible for teams to complete a 14-day hard quarantine period in Melbourne on the current schedule.

Australian Grand Prix chief executive Andrew Westacott said he remains confident the event will find a way to go ahead, and he is working closely with organisers and the Victorian government to put plans in place ahead of time.

"We're working very, very closely in concert with the Victorian government on every aspect of the COVID-safe plan and also the arrangement for the international contingent," Westacott said.

"As you can imagine, it's something very, very complex, it's very, very much a work-in-progress, and we're working with the Victorian government, particularly the Department of Health and CQV, on every one of the details right now."

The Canadian Grand Prix was recently cancelled because Formula One could not come to an agreement for a more flexible quarantine arrangement with the Canadian government.

Grand Prix organisers were planning for a November race in the expectation that all Australians would be vaccinated by then, in accordance with the federal government's plan that all Australians would have their COVID-19 jabs by October.

But there is now no definitive timeline on when the rollout will be completed.

The outcome of the Australian Grand Prix Corporation's negotiations will be watched closely by Tennis Australia as it plans for events in 2022.

ABC Sport understands Australian Open organisers will go ahead with the event overseas, rather than cancel, if an agreement cannot be reached for a more flexible quarantine arrangement.

The tournament contributes more than $300 million to the economy and the money made from hosting the event is a vital source of income for grassroots tennis clubs in Australia.

The majority of tennis players on the tour have already been vaccinated, including Australian world number one Ash Barty.

The 25-year-old revealed she was vaccinated in the US because she could not get answers on a timeline for Australian vaccination before she left the country to compete in Miami in March.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/ ... /100142938

by Suliso It's their business of course, but for how many years are they planning to live like hermits? This virus will never disappear 100%.

by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:53 pm It's their business of course, but for how many years are they planning to live like hermits? This virus will never disappear 100%.
Completely. Plus, there are vaccines now. IF the players are vaccinated, AND they take a PCR test (for example), which they can show prior to boarding a plane, these measures are exaggerated.
Heck, tell them to take TWO vaccines, which seem to not have any consequences with each other. Moving the AUSSIE to Dubai would be ridiculous.

by ti-amie
ponchi101 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 pm
Suliso wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:53 pm It's their business of course, but for how many years are they planning to live like hermits? This virus will never disappear 100%.
Completely. Plus, there are vaccines now. IF the players are vaccinated, AND they take a PCR test (for example), which they can show prior to boarding a plane, these measures are exaggerated.
Heck, tell them to take TWO vaccines, which seem to not have any consequences with each other. Moving the AUSSIE to Dubai would be ridiculous.
I thought you were going to say disastrous :)

They've been marketing themselves as the Asia-Pacific Slam for years.

by Drop-shot China is relishing the chance to jump on this and abduct the tournament. I doubt they're as skittish about the virus as the aussies.

by ponchi101 Thing is. If the Chinese get the tournament ONCE, they will keep it. The Aussies opened that door when they called it the Asian-Pacific slam.

by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote:Key points:

The majority of tennis players on the tour have already been vaccinated, including Australian world number one Ash Barty.

The 25-year-old revealed she was vaccinated in the US because she could not get answers on a timeline for Australian vaccination before she left the country to compete in Miami in March.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/ ... /100142938
I’m not outraged by this - vaccinating anyone in the world is fine with me - but it smacks of elitism, and that drives me crazy. Also hypocritical, to bash the US for Covid (maybe not her directly, but Australians) then take our vaccine.

Would Australia ever have vaccinated an American? Hell no. We take so much (expletive) from the rest of the world - and we deserve some of it - but we are also very generous, even if we are clumsy about it at times. This kind of pisses me off about Barty, to be honest. Just rubs me the wrong way, even if it’s perfectly logical.

by ponchi101 The USA is the country that gives more aid to more counties around the world by a long shot. You even have aid programs for China, which is kind of insane.
The USA is also the most hated country in the world, even in places where aid is going to. You have considerable food and medicine programs for Africa and L. America, getting no love back from that.
So, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. The tragedy of being the world's superpower.

(If you are going to get angry with foreigners getting vaccinated in the USA, you will unfriend me by Wednesday. Too bad, I really liked you :cry: :) )

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:The USA is the country that gives more aid to more counties around the world by a long shot. You even have aid programs for China, which is kind of insane.
The USA is also the most hated country in the world, even in places where aid is going to. You have considerable food and medicine programs for Africa and L. America, getting no love back from that.
So, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. The tragedy of being the world's superpower.

(If you are going to get angry with foreigners getting vaccinated in the USA, you will unfriend me by Wednesday. Too bad, I really liked you :cry: :) )
Haha! I don’t mind, really. Very glad you are getting it! The more people who are vaccinated in the world, the better. It was because it was an Australian. I admire how they locked down and contained the virus. But some of them were pretty judgy about how the US handled it (duh, Trump) and the US Open going ahead. But we have our vaccine act together, it seems like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:47 pm
ti-amie wrote:Key points:

The majority of tennis players on the tour have already been vaccinated, including Australian world number one Ash Barty.

The 25-year-old revealed she was vaccinated in the US because she could not get answers on a timeline for Australian vaccination before she left the country to compete in Miami in March.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/ ... /100142938
I’m not outraged by this - vaccinating anyone in the world is fine with me - but it smacks of elitism, and that drives me crazy. Also hypocritical, to bash the US for Covid (maybe not her directly, but Australians) then take our vaccine.

Would Australia ever have vaccinated an American? Hell no. We take so much (expletive) from the rest of the world - and we deserve some of it - but we are also very generous, even if we are clumsy about it at times. This kind of pisses me off about Barty, to be honest. Just rubs me the wrong way, even if it’s perfectly logical.
Of course they would:
COVID-19 vaccines will be free for everyone in Australia, even if you are not an Australian citizen or permanent resident. This includes people without a Medicare card, overseas visitors, international students, migrant workers and asylum seekers.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-a ... 9-vaccines

Obviously, not a lot of people are able to enter Australia right now, but that's a separate issue.

And the reason the US is vaccinating anyone who wants it regardless of residency at this point is because no one here wants it and the vaccines could go bad.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:36 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:47 pm
ti-amie wrote:Key points:

The majority of tennis players on the tour have already been vaccinated, including Australian world number one Ash Barty.

The 25-year-old revealed she was vaccinated in the US because she could not get answers on a timeline for Australian vaccination before she left the country to compete in Miami in March.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/ ... /100142938
I’m not outraged by this - vaccinating anyone in the world is fine with me - but it smacks of elitism, and that drives me crazy. Also hypocritical, to bash the US for Covid (maybe not her directly, but Australians) then take our vaccine.

Would Australia ever have vaccinated an American? Hell no. We take so much (expletive) from the rest of the world - and we deserve some of it - but we are also very generous, even if we are clumsy about it at times. This kind of pisses me off about Barty, to be honest. Just rubs me the wrong way, even if it’s perfectly logical.
Of course they would:
COVID-19 vaccines will be free for everyone in Australia, even if you are not an Australian citizen or permanent resident. This includes people without a Medicare card, overseas visitors, international students, migrant workers and asylum seekers.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-a ... 9-vaccines

Obviously, not a lot of people are able to enter Australia right now, but that's a separate issue.

And the reason the US is vaccinating anyone who wants it regardless of residency at this point is because no one here wants it and the vaccines could go bad.
I don't believe that no one (else) here wants it, but sounds like there's enough to go around. Thanks for the note on Australia's vaccine policy. Good to hear. Surprises me.

by atlpam https://apple.news/AGpotd2AUQciixxdJHUuK0g

Surprisednot to have seen this posted yet, but Gauff tested positive and will not compete at the Olympics.

by ponchi101 I posted it, without links, in the Olympics topic.
I forgot we had this one. :(

by JazzNU Yes, actually, all of the recent positives have been affecting mostly Olympians, so several have been posted there and not here including Konta, Evans, and De Minaur in case anyone missed those.

Matt Reid could've been posted here, but I mentioned it in relation to De Minaur (his doubles partner at Wimbledon).

by Suliso I wonder is it because others are not testing currently and they all asymptomatic.

by ti-amie

Translated from French by Google
Many are resuming their activities in 2021 and Françoise Abanda is happy to be part of this list.

@Paul6Rivard covers the very positive return to the game of the young Canadian in her latest blog post:
Link in the tweet

by ti-amie

Konta has not been vaccinated for COVID-19.

“I’m definitely not against it, by no means,” Konta said. “I think, obviously, now I’m not advised to get vaccinated quite yet. I think it’ll give me a little bit of time to also see where the world is, how everything is going and then I’ll make a personal choice on kind of when and how and where and all those things.”

by Deuce I've said for a while now that I see definite behaviour parallels between Djokovic (and his father) and Tsitsipas (and his father).

Here's one more...
Tsitsipas Won't Take Vaccine Unless it's Mandatory

.

by ti-amie It's amazing how these young men (excluding Djokovic) can't see the forest for the trees. They lead lives focused on one thing and one thing only but at some point shouldn't someone pull them aside and talk to them? I thought he was too intelligent to be in the anti vax camp.

Tennis can't do what the NFL did because the sport is structured differently.

Deuce I hope you're wrong about him. There has to be a new jack I can support.

by ponchi101 What sort of education they have? Not to deride them, but they have been dedicated solely to tennis from such a young age. Maybe they really have no grasp on the science and medical definitions behind all this.

by Deuce With the amount and depth of information very widely available regarding vaccines and masking and distancing, etc., I don't see how anyone can be legitimately ignorant about the best practices to follow to protect oneself from the virus - unless it's a very voluntary ignorance.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by dmforever So so so so so very stupid. There are many many cases of very fit, young people getting super sick and even dying. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Plus, tennis players get viruses all the time, just like the general population does. How many tennis players have had to take time off because of mono? The flu?

I just can't. :(


Kevin

by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:14 pm
ti-amie wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:21 pm
Apart from the obvious - that these two statements are both idiotic and (voluntarily) ignorant... if young tennis players are so "super healthy" and "super fit", how come half of them can't get through a match without taking a medical time-out?

by mmmm8 Apparently, the English language press didn't pick up the full stupidity of what Tsisipas said because he also said, per Greek media...

"For us young people I think it's good to pass the virus because we'll build immunity. I don't see it as something bad."

https://www-sdna-gr.translate.goog/teni ... =ajax,elem

by ponchi101 "Everyone has his own opinions".
Yes, which does not preclude people from having stupid opinions.
As I wrote in the POST BIG 3 topic, the reasons why NOT to be a Stefanos fan have nothing to do with his game, but with his dumb off court persona.

by ti-amie
mmmm8 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:24 pm Apparently, the English language press didn't pick up the full stupidity of what Tsisipas said because he also said, per Greek media...

"For us young people I think it's good to pass the virus because we'll build immunity. I don't see it as something bad."

https://www-sdna-gr.translate.goog/teni ... =ajax,elem
Image

by ti-amie

Times of London has a paywall.

by Deuce As I predicted over a year ago, Tsitsipas is definitely headed toward 'Djokovic 2.0' territory in terms of his behaviour.
They are similar, and I think they will be viewed with a similar perspective.... even the behaviour of their fathers is similar.

I have no idea if Djokovic was an idol of Tsitsipas's growing up - but if so, that might explain part of it.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Ok. So the answer is NO.
Ban. Them. All. By Saturday.

by dmforever
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:20 pm Ok. So the answer is NO.
Ban. Them. All. By Saturday.
Much as I want to see him complete the Slam...yeah. I have to agree with you. Effffing idiots the both of them.

Kevin

by JazzNU The thing about Djokovic that pisses me off mightily is his influence. In tennis, in his country. STFU man. Even if he didn't want to take it personally, would it honestly kill him to answer "all the medical, scientific, and public health experts have said the vaccines are safe to take and will get us out of this pandemic and I have no reason to doubt what they say, they know what they are talking about. But feel free to ask me how to hit a tennis ball, that's what I'm an expert on."

It wouldn't be a yes, but it'd be a hell of a lot better than what he said.

by ti-amie

The article, where the quote below comes from, says the following:
Translated from French by Google
Contact case of his trainer, Gilles Simon, who is not yet vaccinated, is fixed for the US Open and isolated for ten days in his hotel room in New York: "It was perhaps my last US Open. "

Quentin Moynet @QuentinMoynet
Replying to
@QuentinMoynet
Gilles Simon sur la vaccination : "À la base, je n'avais vraiment pas envie. Je n'ai pas très peur du Covid. Ma philosophie de base, c'est : "Si tu en as peur, tu te vaccines, sinon, non" (...) Je fais partie de ceux qui ont un peu traîné les pieds et qui finiront par le faire."
Translated from French by Google
Gilles Simon on vaccination: "Basically, I really did not want to. I am not very afraid of the Covid. My basic philosophy is:" If you are afraid of it, you vaccinate, otherwise , no"(...) I am one of those who dragged their feet a bit and who will eventually do so. "

by ponchi101 Oh, I'm so sorry for you, Giles. I really...
nah.

by dmforever
ti-amie wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:17 pm

The article, where the quote below comes from, says the following:
Translated from French by Google
Contact case of his trainer, Gilles Simon, who is not yet vaccinated, is fixed for the US Open and isolated for ten days in his hotel room in New York: "It was perhaps my last US Open. "

Quentin Moynet @QuentinMoynet
Replying to
@QuentinMoynet
Gilles Simon sur la vaccination : "À la base, je n'avais vraiment pas envie. Je n'ai pas très peur du Covid. Ma philosophie de base, c'est : "Si tu en as peur, tu te vaccines, sinon, non" (...) Je fais partie de ceux qui ont un peu traîné les pieds et qui finiront par le faire."
Translated from French by Google
Gilles Simon on vaccination: "Basically, I really did not want to. I am not very afraid of the Covid. My basic philosophy is:" If you are afraid of it, you vaccinate, otherwise , no"(...) I am one of those who dragged their feet a bit and who will eventually do so. "
"and basically I don't give an F if I give it to someone either. I won't know if they get sick anyway. "

Kevin

by ti-amie I posted this in the US Open general thread but thought it could go here as well.


by dmforever This is making me not want to follow men's tennis. I didn't know so many of them weren't vaccinated.

Unlike the nine players who met with the media in that spot a day earlier, Murray chose to keep his mask on. And unlike roughly half the other men who will be taking the court when the year’s last Grand Slam tournament begins Monday, Murray has been vaccinated against COVID-19.

And thank you Andy. Once again, you are the voice of sanity.

“I feel like I’m enjoying kind of a fairly normal life, whereas for the players that haven’t, it’s different. I’m sure they’ll be frustrated with that. Ultimately, I guess the reason why all of us are getting vaccinated is to look out for the wider public. We have a responsibility as players that are traveling across the world to look out for everyone else, as well,” Murray said. “I’m happy that I’m vaccinated. I’m hoping that more players choose to have it in the coming months.”

https://apnews.com/article/novak-djokov ... b2b5a68621

Kevin

by ti-amie See Gilles Simon's comments above. Add them to Stef's and Djokovic's comments and the deafening silence from most players male and female and it seems Murray is in the minority re his views on the virus. That is really sad.

by ponchi101 One thing that surprises me. Simon has been open, in the past, that by now he plays tennis for the money. He is honest about the fact that he really has no chances of a major trophy.
So, for a player that plays for the money, his anti-vaxx stance just cost him $75K. Not a very smart business decision (on top of all the other dumb aspects of such a choice).

by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:17 pm
The article, where the quote below comes from, says the following:
Translated from French by Google
Contact case of his trainer, Gilles Simon, who is not yet vaccinated, is fixed for the US Open and isolated for ten days in his hotel room in New York: "It was perhaps my last US Open. "
Just a slight correction to the above...
"Contact case of his trainer, Gilles Simon, who is not yet vaccinated, has been forfeited out of the US Open and isolated for ten days in his hotel room in New York: "It was perhaps my last US Open."

I think part of the reason, sadly, that we're hearing more male players than female say that they're not vaccinated is because of the 'macho' factor.
Males in general want to show how 'tough' they are - and some feel that this is a way of doing that; that they are so 'tough' that they don't need the protection of the vaccine. They're proud of it.
They seem to not realize that, in trying to show how 'tough' they are, they're also showing how stupid and selfish they are.

by mmmm8 The article DMForever posted above says that on both tours, only about 50% are vaccinated.

by Deuce But it seems that only unvaccinated male players are bragging about it.
Has anyone heard anything from an unvaccinated female player?
Have any unvaccinated female players even been identified?

by Suliso I'd really like to see AO admitting only fully vaccinated players and support staff in the country.

by JazzNU With the exception of the first few that got vaccinated early on in say, April, there has been very little said about players that have been getting the vaccine. We hear about the unvaccinated when they are spouting nonsense, but very little when players say something positive or do the right thing. This disparity is a problem and surely influences what some think is best, since they apparently don't feel like listening to public health experts on the matter.

These "journalists" could be asking many more than just Djokovic, Tsitsipas, and Murray about their thoughts on the vaccine, but do they? Rarely from what I can tell. Doing so in the benign manner they asked Novak I'm guessing would produce much more reasonable sound bites encouraging vaccination from many players. But they've had that opportunity for the last 4 months or so and it hasn't appeared to be the focus. I can remember questions being asked of a more broad range of players back at the Miami Open, but not since. I haven't even seen it be standard to ask those that have gotten covid if they are now vaccinated, which seems like the least that could be asked.

by ti-amie Do you think there would be more Murray's than Simon's?

by ti-amie

by mmmm8 BTW, Wednesday I was at a doubles match and there were two other doubles players sitting near me and definitely within 6 feet of other people.

Theoretically, I understand why they are not mandating player vaccinations but then they should limit players attending matches to the player box/seating only.

by ti-amie

by JazzNU Are they even having the Aussie Open in Australia next year? Because I thought the plan was not to because they would need everyone to be vaccinated and even then, they were still going impose the quarantine and the players weren't on board for a repeat.

Remember that odd Hopman Cup announcement? We're happy to welcome back our Australian tradition in 2022...most likely taking place in Europe.

by Suliso We'll see, but Australia will need to come out of their cave anyway. There is no such thing as zero covid. It would make sense to require vaccinations for all, though.

by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote:I'd really like to see AO admitting only fully vaccinated players and support staff in the country.
What if all the Slams do and this stops Novak at 20?


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by ponchi101 I of course still get the inevitable news about the "real, true" story about Covid (via my looney friend) but eventually the world will have to come to this sort of agreement. Borders will be closed to people that are unvaccinated. It is the standard procedure for Yellow Fever, which is much less of a problem worldwide.
And we will need a little passport. Or: just paste copies of your vaccine dates IN your real passport. No need to make it complicated.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:51 am
Suliso wrote:I'd really like to see AO admitting only fully vaccinated players and support staff in the country.
What if all the Slams do and this stops Novak at 20?
Think maybe you've landed on the one thing that will make Novak get the vaccine.

by ti-amie
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:51 am
Suliso wrote:I'd really like to see AO admitting only fully vaccinated players and support staff in the country.
What if all the Slams do and this stops Novak at 20?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's his call to make.

by JazzNU
Suliso wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:14 am We'll see, but Australia will need to come out of their cave anyway. There is no such thing as zero covid. It would make sense to require vaccinations for all, though.
I haven't followed a ton of what is going on there lately, but Nick retweeted an article recently about Melbourne's most recent lockdown and it has made it the most locked down city in the world overtaking Buenos Aires. They definitely need to find another way, but this is why I'm confused about the planning for the Aussie Open. Australia is locked down to outsiders obviously, but Melbourne takes it even further. And they're still doing this with vaccines and the AO is 4 months away. I know we said this last year and they did hold the event, so maybe they'll find a way this time too. Seems like it'll have to be a good deal more lenient than last time to get most players on board.

by ponchi101 I can no longer agree with that approach (Australia's). If they lockdown until the Open, it will be two years of that. Too much. The other damagers (economic and mental) also have to be considered.

by ponchi101 As we expected:
Ashes and Australian Open competitors to require full vaccination or be refused entry

Novak is mentioned as a prime example in the article. So here he stands.
Does he stand by his beliefs, or does he take the vaccine? As lucky a person as he is, he simply walks into traps set up by himself too often.
All players have until October 15 to get a first jab. The article does not say how they plan to control the players.

by Suliso Why only 15th of October?

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:As we expected:
Ashes and Australian Open competitors to require full vaccination or be refused entry

Novak is mentioned as a prime example in the article. So here he stands.
Does he stand by his beliefs, or does he take the vaccine? As lucky a person as he is, he simply walks into traps set up by himself too often.
All players have until October 15 to get a first jab. The article does not say how they plan to control the players.
Yeah how will they verify the vaccine? People can lie.


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by Suliso Provide a vaccine certificate? We have those in EU.

by Deuce Indeed, it would seem rather odd to apply these deadlines (October 15th to get the 1st vaccine and November 26th to get the 2nd) to tennis players who plan on being in Australia only for the Aussie Open, which is scheduled to begin (main draw) on January 17th (and not play any lead-in tournaments in Australia, if there are any this time).
Qualifying is another matter - add another week or so for that... and players would want to arrive at least a few days before their first match...
It is close, I suppose - considering that one is only considered fully vaccinated 2 to 3 weeks after the 2nd shot.

by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote:Provide a vaccine certificate? We have those in EU.
Cant they easily be faked?


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by Deuce
meganfernandez wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:25 am
Suliso wrote:Provide a vaccine certificate? We have those in EU.
Cant they easily be faked?
Yes.
With the technology available today, pretty much anything can be faked (because the human animal will abuse everything he comes into contact with) *.
And with the money and contacts that pro tennis players have, they could very easily find resources to fake vaccine certificates. The question then becomes 'Would they do this?' If they do, they would be taking a huge risk - for, if it is discovered that their vaccine certificate is not legitimate, and that the player knew this, that player's tennis career will be finished (or at least it should be finished - but then, 'celebrities' tend to be able to get away with pretty much anything... sigh...)

*
Off Topic
A couple of decades ago, when digital photography was first being introduced, a professional newspaper photographer said to me (at a Davis Cup practice) that "a photograph used to be proof that something happened - but today, with digital photography and computer manipulation, a photo doesn't prove a damned thing!"

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by JazzNU And that was yesterday. Not feeling as great now and her watermelon tasted terrible. So...yeah.

As I said before, I'm good and done with this. I'm sure I sound like an asshole, but I truly do not care. I like Aryna, but with few exceptions (kids and countries that still don't have wide availability) I'll save my sympathy for someone that is vaccinated, tests positive, and has symptoms. The "I'm young and healthy" argument is not just dumb, those that are appear to have an especially good chance of avoiding symptoms. Quite a few vaccinated pro athletes that have tested positive are coming back on the minimum timetable allowed with very few symptoms. Maybe she could've counted herself among that group.

by dryrunguy You know, back in the early days of the pandemic, most of us took comfort in the facts as we understood them at the time... E.g., most people who get COVID won't even know they have it. That's probably still true, at least to some degree. But at the time, if we were being honest with ourselves, it was part defense mechanism and part wishful thinking.

But as more time passed, as we watched in horror as military tanks lined the streets of cities in northern Italy to load up corpses, as we saw video of dead people lying on the streets and sidewalks in Ecuador, as we saw pictures of mass graves being dug in Brazil, and as we saw one news report after another about ICUs filled to the max in New York, Seattle, and numerous other urban centers in the U.S., rational minds were hoping for one thing: Please, please, PLEASE give us something to protect us from this monster we cannot see.

And then we got that protection. I have already told the story about the day I got my vaccine and how I sat in middle of a pharmacy bawling like a grieving widow because of the profound sense of relief I felt.

That initial fear eventually turned into a profound sense of personal peace.

But lately, that sense of personal peace has turned into rage. Because of dingbats like Aryna, I still cannot do many of the things I want to do or go to places I want to go.

I am sick of these people. My sympathy quotient for them is in the negative.

by ti-amie Dry I'm struggling to maintain my sympathy quotient. It's really, really hard because we're not where we were in March 2020.

BTW my niece asked if her school, part of the NY Archdiocese, goes hybrid if we would prefer she stay home.

Calling them dingbats is too kind.

by meganfernandez
dryrunguy wrote:You know, back in the early days of the pandemic, most of us took comfort in the facts as we understood them at the time... E.g., most people who get COVID won't even know they have it. That's probably still true, at least to some degree. But at the time, if we were being honest with ourselves, it was part defense mechanism and part wishful thinking.

But as more time passed, as we watched in horror as military tanks lined the streets of cities in northern Italy to load up corpses, as we saw video of dead people lying on the streets and sidewalks in Ecuador, as we saw pictures of mass graves being dug in Brazil, and as we saw one news report after another about ICUs filled to the max in New York, Seattle, and numerous other urban centers in the U.S., rational minds were hoping for one thing: Please, please, PLEASE give us something to protect us from this monster we cannot see.

And then we got that protection. I have already told the story about the day I got my vaccine and how I sat in middle of a pharmacy bawling like a grieving widow because of the profound sense of relief I felt.

That initial fear eventually turned into a profound sense of personal peace.

But lately, that sense of personal peace has turned into rage. Because of dingbats like Aryna, I still cannot do many of the things I want to do or go to places I want to go.

I am sick of these people. My sympathy quotient for them is in the negative.
I don’t have much sympathy, even for family members who were recently pretty sick with it. Depends on the circumstances, though.


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by ponchi101 I am trying to keep a "balance" (and I am not implying that you guys are not, just saying how hard it is to do so).
The STATISTICAL balance is: the disease has killed around 5 million people in almost two years. It WILL NOT destroy mankind, it will not wipe us out. We need to start moving and the sole way of doing that is well known to us: vaccination, masks (for a couple of extra years), boosters, not terribly large gatherings. But we need to get back to work and get the economy going (says the biased guy that spends half his morning looking for work).
But:
The EMOTIONAL balance is so hard. My mom has recovered, but my sister had a patient whose Grandfather died yesterday. This thing is still out there, and we simply got lucky that my 82 yo mom has made it. It was simply that: luck. She was a woman in good health, and that was the luck, but she has made it clear she is not going out anywhere until she gets that second dose (it will be her first foray out, she insists).
So, I am still trying to gauge how I feel about what to do.
But, the final but: Aryna, Kyrie, and every single person that refuses this vaccine? If something happens to them, I will not feel the slightest sorrow.

by mmmm8 Glad to hear your mom is better!! (haven't had a chance to catch up on your blog)

by JazzNU



by JazzNU Image

by dmforever I won't say if I drive drunk or not. Too much is being made about that.

Moron. (and this is from a former huge huge fan and not a hater)

Kevin

p.s. We will all know once the AO entry list comes out, if not before that, so practically it's such a stupid place to take a stand. Sigh. :( :(

by dmforever
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:22 pm I am trying to keep a "balance" (and I am not implying that you guys are not, just saying how hard it is to do so).
The STATISTICAL balance is: the disease has killed around 5 million people in almost two years. It WILL NOT destroy mankind, it will not wipe us out. We need to start moving and the sole way of doing that is well known to us: vaccination, masks (for a couple of extra years), boosters, not terribly large gatherings. But we need to get back to work and get the economy going (says the biased guy that spends half his morning looking for work).
But:
The EMOTIONAL balance is so hard. My mom has recovered, but my sister had a patient whose Grandfather died yesterday. This thing is still out there, and we simply got lucky that my 82 yo mom has made it. It was simply that: luck. She was a woman in good health, and that was the luck, but she has made it clear she is not going out anywhere until she gets that second dose (it will be her first foray out, she insists).
So, I am still trying to gauge how I feel about what to do.
But, the final but: Aryna, Kyrie, and every single person that refuses this vaccine? If something happens to them, I will not feel the slightest sorrow.
I'm really glad to hear that your mom is OK. That's great news.
I feel the same lack of empathy for non vaxxers. However, the galling part is that they can give it to someone and not ever know it. :( :( :(

Kevin

by ponchi101
dmforever wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:11 pm I won't say if I drive drunk or not. Too much is being made about that.

Moron. (and this is from a former huge huge fan and not a hater)
...
I had been trying to find a parallel example to gauge the proper level of irresponsibility. Thanks for that.

by dryrunguy I don't know how to insert this as a gif.

https://tenor.com/view/dont-speak-gwen- ... f-19182327

by JazzNU
dryrunguy wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:19 am I don't know how to insert this as a gif.

https://tenor.com/view/dont-speak-gwen- ... f-19182327

Image

by JazzNU
dryrunguy wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:19 am I don't know how to insert this as a gif.
For future reference, if you use Giphy, the share link will likely prepopulate on it's own, and in the rare cases it does not, adding an image tag will work to share the gif. For Tenor, the share link doesn't work the same, so instead, right click on the gif on the Tenor site, and either open the image link in another tab and grab that or copy the image link from the right click drop down menu if available, and then add the image tags on here and it'll appear correctly.

by ponchi101 Thanks. Because I also did not know how to insert a GIF.

by dryrunguy
JazzNU wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:16 am
dryrunguy wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:19 am I don't know how to insert this as a gif.
For future reference, if you use Giphy, the share link will likely prepopulate on it's own, and in the rare cases it does not, adding an image tag will work to share the gif. For Tenor, the share link doesn't work the same, so instead, right click on the gif on the Tenor site, and either open the image link in another tab and grab that or copy the image link from the right click drop down menu if available, and then add the image tags on here and it'll appear correctly.
So, basically, I need a master's degree in physics... :shock: Thank you!

by ponchi101 For those with a simple BS in computer science:
download GIF to your machine.
Drag and drop into the POST frame.
Look below and click PLACE INLINE.

It should also do it.

by JazzNU You definitely do not need to ever download a gif unless it's something you want to keep or think you'll have trouble finding it in the future or something along those lines.

Post in the technical forum thread if you need help, it's pretty simple. And you guys are killing me.

by ti-amie I just saw this posted on another site.

24 Sep
Tennis veteran Chardy suspends season after reaction to Covid jab

Veteran French tennis player Jeremy Chardy will suspend his season after suffering a debilitating reaction to a Covid-19 vaccine, he told AFP on Thursday.

"Since I had my vaccine (between the Olympics and the US Open), I have had a problem, I've had a series of struggles. Suddenly, I cannot train, I cannot play," said the 34-year-old.

The world number 73 explained that he felt violent pains all over his body as soon as he made any physical effort.

"Now I have been to see two doctors, I have done some tests so I know what I have and the most important thing is to take care of myself," said Chardy.

"I prefer to take more time to take care of myself and be sure that in the future I will not have any problem rather than trying to get back on the court as quickly as possible and find myself still having health problems."

Chardy, a former top 30 player, has won just one singles title in his career, at Stuttgart in 2009.

However, in his time, he has claimed wins against Roger Federer, Andy Murray as well as recently-crowned US Open champion Daniil Medvedev.

https://www.news24.com/sport/tennis/atp ... b-20210924



As I read this I thought about Nikki Minaj's cousin's friend but that was mean.

by JazzNU Yeah, I read that before. But he can't be struggling too much. In Zambia now, was in Nice for a wedding a few weeks ago. and was in NYC for the Open and was carrying his son on his shoulders. If you're debilitated, you don't travel around to multiple locales with your beautiful wife and son living it up.

by dryrunguy Not to mention: 1) It could very well be a false assumption of cause and effect, and 2) it's better than being dead. Dipstick.

by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:22 pm "Now I have been to see two doctors, I have done some tests so I know what I have and the most important thing is to take care of myself," said Chardy.
Please share 'what you have', Jeremy! Given the circumstances, and your claim that it's directly related to the vaccine, if you received a specific diagnosis, we'd all love to know what that is...

by mick1303
JazzNU wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:58 pm Yeah, I read that before. But he can't be struggling too much. In Zambia now, was in Nice for a wedding a few weeks ago. and was in NYC for the Open and was carrying his son on his shoulders. If you're debilitated, you don't travel around to multiple locales with your beautiful wife and son living it up.
Chardy was complaining about low energy level that does not allow him to train properly. The physical effort required for pro training can't be compared with an effort for regular travel and other routine activities.

by JazzNU The reason Thiem hasn't been seen at the Vienna Open this week as expected.






by Suliso Isn't Tsitsipas also antivax? Not heard anything about Nadal or Federer, but hopefully not. Only Murray has been vocally for on ATP tour.

by mmmm8
Suliso wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 pm Isn't Tsitsipas also antivax? Not heard anything about Nadal or Federer, but hopefully not. Only Murray has been vocally for on ATP tour.
Nadal's spoken strongly in favor of the vaccines from the beginning:
https://tennishead.net/rafael-nadal-vac ... nightmare/

Reportedly, both he and Federer are vaccinated.

by JazzNU
Suliso wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 pm Isn't Tsitsipas also antivax? Not heard anything about Nadal or Federer, but hopefully not. Only Murray has been vocally for on ATP tour.
Yes on Tsitsipas being at least vaccine hesitant if not anti-vax, but has said he would take it if mandatory. Medvedev is another one that at the very least said previously he's not interested in taking it. Nadal has been vocal about his support of vaccines. I'm not sure if Fed has been all that vocal, but he's definitely already vaccinated.

Kyrgios has been one of the most outspoken pro-vaccine, but few want to give him credit for anything so it's just kind of whatever. Once Andy started talking, I don't recall seeing much mention of Nick again on the matter.

by dryrunguy
JazzNU wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:31 pm
Suliso wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 pm Isn't Tsitsipas also antivax? Not heard anything about Nadal or Federer, but hopefully not. Only Murray has been vocally for on ATP tour.
Kyrgios has been one of the most outspoken pro-vaccine, but few want to give him credit for anything so it's just kind of whatever. Once Andy started talking, I don't recall seeing much mention of Nick again on the matter.
In normal circumstances, if Nick is strongly FOR something, then it makes sense to be AGAINST it. This is one of the few exceptions.

by Fastbackss "Novavax"

Man I knew Djokovic had a lot of money, but his own vaccine?!?

by ti-amie Will they humiliate Novak like this? Thiem banned from watching tournament he previously won
The Austrian cannot be in the stands to watch the tournament in Vienna because he has not been vaccinated

Austria's best tennis player Dominic Thiem cannot watch the ATP tournament currently taking place in Vienna live at the venue because he has not been vaccinated against coronavirus.

Thiem, which has been injured since June and is working to return to the court, has meanwhile started training with the ball and racket.

However, he has not been able to enter the Vienna venue as a spectator, where his many rivals are playing the tournament he won in 2019.

Namely, at this tournament, the so-called "2G" rule is applied to the audience, according to which only vaccinated or people who have recovered from Covid can enter the hall.

Players and their coaches can also show a negative PCR test to participate.

Thiem announced a couple of weeks ago that he has not yet been vaccinated against coronavirus, and that it is waiting for the Novavax vaccine, which has not yet been approved.

This is just one of the problems that have appeared in world tennis lately, and the biggest dilemma is about the participation of tennis players who have not been vaccinated (including our Novak Djokovic) at the Australian Open in early 2022.

Novak is the record holder and nine-time winner of this tournament, but he is threatened with a ban from entering almost every day by Australian authorities, unless he shows proof of receiving the coronavirus vaccine.

https://www.telegraf.rs/english/3409863 ... iously-won

by JazzNU Humiliate? This is what I meant by unbearable.



by Deuce Kyrgios has been loud about encouraging people to get vaccinated and to follow the safely mandates... but, I suppose typically for him, it's a lot of 'do as I say, not as I do'.

I've seen him either maskless or with the mask under his chin when others were masked in environments where masks were either recommended or mandatory...
Then there's his towel thing - refusing outright to use the individual on-court towel bins properly... sometimes throwing numerous towels on the court, in the general direction of his towel bin... other times draping his towel half over his bin and half over his opponent's towel in the other bin.
:roll:
Sigh...

by ponchi101 So. We are getting to the point in which, when somebody is asked to follow a rule, agreed upon by everybody else, and they don't, and then the proper correction or sanction is applied, we are HUMILIATING THEM?
What part am I missing? :shock:

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:So. We are getting to the point in which, when somebody is asked to follow a rule, agreed upon by everybody else, and they don't, and then the proper correction or sanction is applied, we are HUMILIATING THEM?
What part am I missing? :shock:
Totally not a humiliation. I wonder if something was lost in translation, although even a softer version of “humiliate” misses the mark, in my opinion.


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by ti-amie This thing about humiliating their fave has been a constant refrain ever since Australia began making it clear they were not relaxing their standards for athletes.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:39 pm
ponchi101 wrote:So. We are getting to the point in which, when somebody is asked to follow a rule, agreed upon by everybody else, and they don't, and then the proper correction or sanction is applied, we are HUMILIATING THEM?
What part am I missing? :shock:
Totally not a humiliation. I wonder if something was lost in translation, although even a softer version of “humiliate” misses the mark, in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I found the Serbian version of the article. It's not a mistranslation.

by JazzNU Strange way to phrase it. I mean, he couldn't attend the Vienna Open last week because he wasn't vaccinated, so yeah it became news. But glad he is now and hopefully when his arm doesn't fall off some other skeptical players will get it in the next month.



by dryrunguy "Needles to say..." :lol: :lol: :lol:

by ti-amie I read Thiem's statement to make sure he said he's been vaccinated not that he was immunized.

by JazzNU

by skatingfan Canada will require all professional and amateur athletes entering Canada to be fully vaccinated as of Jan 15, 2022.

by Suliso
skatingfan wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:09 pm Canada will require all professional and amateur athletes entering Canada to be fully vaccinated as of Jan 15, 2022.
As opposed to all other foreigners crossing the border?

by skatingfan
Suliso wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:17 pm As opposed to all other foreigners crossing the border?
Athletes are currently exempt from the mandatory vaccination policy.

by Deuce As per the above...

Unvaccinated Athletes No Longer Allowed Into Canada as of Jan. 15th

This is a good thing.

I'm wondering, however, if the definition of 'fully vaccinated' will change in time. There is evidence that the effectiveness of the vaccines which protect against COVID-19 deteriorates with time - the current time frame seems to be that they begin to lose their effectiveness approximately 6 months after dosage is administered. And so will a person still be considered 'fully vaccinated' 8 months after their second dose? 10 months after? For how long?
There will (hopefully) come a time when two doses is no longer enough to be considered 'fully vaccinated' - not only for athletes, but for everyone, obviously.

by ponchi101 Plenty of news around that only vaccinated players will be allowed to play at the Aussie. No more conditionals.
So time to wonder if any of the top players that were waiting for this decision will skip or get their shots. Specially, of course, Novak.
Although with the difficulty to get proof (reliable proof) one has to wonder if somebody will try to pull the "fake ID" stunt.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Yep. It is contradictory, although he expands a bit more in the full quote.
But, no, the Australian Govt should not make an exception for Novak. This is a minor request that will actually benefit him.
Again, I wonder how he will prove he had his shots. This will not end anytime soon (the controversy, not the pandemic, which will surely continue into my 70's).

by skatingfan
ponchi101 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:07 am This will not end anytime soon (the controversy, not the pandemic, which will surely continue into my 70's).
You know you set yourself up for this, so . . .

If the pandemic is going to continue into your 70's then it should be over really soon then, right?

by oliver0001 In its submission, Services Australia acknowledged with “the emerging adult vaccine requirements there may be potential risk around forging of vaccination records”.

But it claimed “harsh penalties” were already in place, including fines of up to $6,660 if a vaccination provider breaches their obligations and $26,640 and two years in prison for “offences committed relating to protected information”.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ent-warned

Other countries have even harsher rules for forged vaccination certificates. For example, in Germany you can get fined for up to two years in prison. There is a high-profile case right now, where the soccer coach of Bremen had to step down after allegations have emerged that he might have used a fake certificate.

by ponchi101
skatingfan wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:57 am ...

You know you set yourself up for this, so . . .

If the pandemic is going to continue into your 70's then it should be over really soon then, right?
Ha Ha Ha...
(You made me drop my dentures... :rofl:)

by ti-amie Health care professionals on the level of Dr. Fauci are already prepping to treat this thing as an endemic per dry's last posting I think. Ponchi may not be far off here.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Somehow I knew it was him.


by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Should we assume someone has already tried to do this?

by ponchi101 Not necessarily. There have been enough reports of people doing this, and enough players expressing skepticism about vaccination, for the tours to consider this possibility.
Maybe for once they are ahead of the curve.

by dmforever A woman (not tennis-related) did this in Hawaii. On the fake vaccine card she had they had spelled Moderna "Maderna". She was fined in the thousands of dollars and put in jail for a couple of weeks, I think.

One can only imagine how this might play out with various players. Good for the ATP.

Kevin

by Deuce A $100,000 fine will obviously have zero effect at the upper pro level - and so may simply be a way to say to the general public (for whom $100,000 is a huge amount of money) that they are doing something to 'punish' those who do this.

I'd like to see the policy modified to be an absolute minimum 1 year complete suspension from any sanctioned tournament for any player - regardless of ranking - proven to have done this. Period.
And a lifetime ban for any idiot who does it twice.
Plus whatever the regional penalties may be for the region where it occurs, of course - which could mean prison time.

by ponchi101 And right on cue, Mr. Novak's dad sticks his foot in his mouth:
Novak Djokovic won't be 'blackmailed' over vaccination status as father casts Australian Open doubts

For starters, you can't be blackmailed OPENLY. The man can't even get that concept straight.
And second, and coming from a person that belongs to the 3rd world, your freedom does not allow you to endanger others. So...
Ah, what the heck. We have spoken about this over and over. But now this sows some serious doubts about Novak going over to the Aussie.
Will the big three end up their careers stuck at 20 slams each? (I don't see Rafa winning the Aussie, and Roger is not going either).

by dmforever The sheer idiocy of him refusing to get vaccinated (because the whole privacy issue is a total smokescreen) to the point that he could end up affecting his entire legacy is mind boggling.

And as for his father, we already know he shoots off his mouth without much thought. Maybe it's a translation thing. He means "pressured" or "coerced".

I'm not surprised but still disappointed. :(

Kevin

by Fastbackss It is alleged that Antonio Brown (NFL player) did this - so it could be ATP trying to get ahead of it.

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by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:38 pm Health care professionals on the level of Dr. Fauci are already prepping to treat this thing as an endemic per dry's last posting I think. Ponchi may not be far off here.
Didn't read Dry's or Ponchi's posts that you mentioned, but Dr. Fauci said in an interview last week with The Daily that "ultimately, all pandemics burn themselves out." It felt like a light at the end of the tunnel when he said that. Which doesn't mean it won't stick around in some endemic form, but it won't be as deadly and will be easier to avoid.
Screen Shot 2021-11-29 at 8.56.32 AM.png
Screen Shot 2021-11-29 at 9.04.37 AM.png
Screen Shot 2021-11-29 at 8.57.32 AM.png

by ponchi101 That is sort of surprising, to me. Malaria has not "burned out"; it is endemic to many countries in the world. Sure, we were able to eradicate smallpox, but that is the exception, not the rule. Influenza comes back year after year, with a new variation. The examples are many.
Will we "learn" to live with C19? Well, we are getting a lot of practice, that is for sure. Will it simply go away in two, three years? Who knows, we have joked here that eventually we might need to start using the Sanskrit or Hindu alphabet to label the strains, but so far, it seems this thing is going nowhere, specially with an unvaccinated pool of people roaming a lot of countries.
Interesting comments from Fauci, to put it mildly.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:31 pm That is sort of surprising, to me. Malaria has not "burned out"; it is endemic to many countries in the world. Sure, we were able to eradicate smallpox, but that is the exception, not the rule. Influenza comes back year after year, with a new variation. The examples are many.
Will we "learn" to live with C19? Well, we are getting a lot of practice, that is for sure. Will it simply go away in two, three years? Who knows, we have joked here that eventually we might need to start using the Sanskrit or Hindu alphabet to label the strains, but so far, it seems this thing is going nowhere, specially with an unvaccinated pool of people roaming a lot of countries.
Interesting comments from Fauci, to put it mildly.
You might be right. It was just eye-opening to me and I hadn't heard it anywhere else. Maybe by "burns out," he means weaken to a point that we consider manageable to live with. Malaria isn't a virus, though.

by ponchi101 The problem will be defining what level if "manageable to live with". When ICU's are only 50% occupied by C19 patients? When infections finally drop to a given number per 1,000 a day? Those are also figures to think about.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:55 pm The problem will be defining what level if "manageable to live with". When ICU's are only 50% occupied by C19 patients? When infections finally drop to a given number per 1,000 a day? Those are also figures to think about.
It will be something abstract - for instance, when most people feel like they are living freely and not worrying about Covid (ideally with a regularly issued vaccine or one that lasts a lot longer than six months) and hospitals don't consider themselves overwhelmed. I wonder if they can combine flu and Covid vaccines in the future and we can just get one shot each year.

I don' t know how public health officials will gauge "manageable." They use a color-coded system right now, right? So when it drops down to the lowest level?

Back to tennis, I'm starting to think it's extremely possible that Novak won't play any more Slams because they will all require vaccinations. And either Rafa gets the record at 21 or 22 or they all tie at 20.

I THINK he will break down and get it if all Slams require it, but it won't surprise me if he doesn't.

by ponchi101 Right now, he is in a real dilemma. If he does not get vaccinated, he won't most likely be allowed at the other slams either. A loss. if he takes the vaccine, even though he will be able to claim he was forced to, he will seem like somebody with no convictions (as opposed to Kyrie Irving, who you may call a fool, but not a hypocrite). Either way, not a good position to be in.
Some PR nightmare brewing.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:00 pm Right now, he is in a real dilemma. If he does not get vaccinated, he won't most likely be allowed at the other slams either. A loss. if he takes the vaccine, even though he will be able to claim he was forced to, he will seem like somebody with no convictions (as opposed to Kyrie Irving, who you may call a fool, but not a hypocrite). Either way, not a good position to be in.
Some PR nightmare brewing.
Federer must LOVE this.

by dmforever I actually think that if Novak gets vaccinated, it will be a big deal for a few days and then it won't be anymore. He might get asked about it up and through the Australian Open, and then not anymore. I don't see it as a huge PR nightmare. We'll see what happens.

Kevin

by meganfernandez
dmforever wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:10 pm I actually think that if Novak gets vaccinated, it will be a big deal for a few days and then it won't be anymore. He might get asked about it up and through the Australian Open, and then not anymore. I don't see it as a huge PR nightmare. We'll see what happens.

Kevin
I don't think it will change any minds. His fans won't consider it hypocrisy, and those who don't like him will continue not to. It might matter to pundits and how they talk about him.

by ponchi101 Oh, sure. PR nightmares last as long as the next nightmare comes.
For example, I seem to recall a story about a Chinese tennis player that had accused somebody of something and that went away rather quickly.
The flip side of the 15 minutes of fame is that you also only get 15 minutes of shame. And if he goes on to win the Aussie and reach 21, it will al be forgotten.

by ti-amie

by the Moz If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.

by dmforever
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin

by the Moz
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin
:mrgreen:

by meganfernandez
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:56 am
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin
:mrgreen:
It really is so perfect that it is almost divined - meaning this whole thing isn't Novax's fault. If only his parents has named HIM Marco or Djordje.

by ashkor87 Am happy to note that the ATP 250 in Pune, where I live, is happening after all..because of C19 cancelling so many tournaments around the world, I am hoping, we will see good players coming here! They are going to allow 500 fully vaccinated spectators every day, which is not bad .it is a big stadium, so would be about 25% capacity ..anyway 500 is a good number for a tennis tournament..

by Deuce I'm thinking that if Djokovic gets the required number of vaccines to enter Australia and doesn't win the tournament, he'll blame the vaccines for the loss.
:lol:

by ashkor87
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Novax! Simply brilliant!

by meganfernandez
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
I'm thinking the same thing. If only he had beaten Medvedev, he might be willing to hang it up at 21.

by ponchi101
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin
Absolutely.
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:56 am
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am

Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin

:mrgreen:

It really is so perfect that it is almost divined - meaning this whole thing isn't Novax's fault. If only his parents has named HIM Marco or Djordje.
:thumbsup:
C'mon, gang. Don't pile on the poor guy. Next thing you know, somebody will call him Novax Djocovid. Which would truly be a low blow...

by dmforever
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:41 pm
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin
Absolutely.
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:56 am


:mrgreen:

It really is so perfect that it is almost divined - meaning this whole thing isn't Novax's fault. If only his parents has named HIM Marco or Djordje.
:thumbsup:
C'mon, gang. Don't pile on the poor guy. Next thing you know, somebody will call him Novax Djocovid. Which would truly be a low blow...
Y'all are just too clever for me. ;)

Kevin

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:41 pm
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
dmforever wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 am If all four majors go vaccine passport, there's absolutely no way Novax will choose to miss them.
Did you coin "Novax"? So simple, and yet so elegant. Bravo / Brava!!!! ;)

Kevin
Absolutely.
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:38 am
the Moz wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:56 am


:mrgreen:

It really is so perfect that it is almost divined - meaning this whole thing isn't Novax's fault. If only his parents has named HIM Marco or Djordje.
:thumbsup:
C'mon, gang. Don't pile on the poor guy. Next thing you know, somebody will call him Novax Djocovid. Which would truly be a low blow...
Keep it coming. It's not even close to getting old.

by ponchi101
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm ...

Keep it coming. It's not even close to getting old.
Why can't I come up with the joke about HIM getting a COLD? The joke is just there... ;)

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:37 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm ...

Keep it coming. It's not even close to getting old.
Why can't I come up with the joke about HIM getting a COLD? The joke is just there... ;)
I don't know... I'd go back to name puns. :)

by skatingfan This clip comes to mind.


by Deuce Emma Raducanu has tested positive for COVID-19.
In addition to hoping she doesn't develop any serious symptoms, I also hope that she didn't contract it due to careless/irresponsible behaviour.

by dmforever The plot thickens...or not. :)

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/australian- ... 0cpmc7b04w

Kevin

by JazzNU It's in Serbia, so this definitely tells me nothing. But is the person writing this a journalist? They can't find out if a 30,000 person attendance game had vaccine requirements?

That being said, if he's vaccinated and doing this as a stance, he's even more of an asshole than I previously thought. Serbians as well as many players that look up to him have taken his silence and previous statements as not thinking it's a good idea to get vaccinated, especially for his performance. And I think he 100% knows this and that's the asshole move right there. It would've cost him nothing in this instance to have said, "I know what I've said before about vaccines, but having had covid last year and knowing how deadly the virus has been for millions, I knew it was important to be as safe as possible for myself, my family, and my community, and in particular with the level of international travel I do, this was the best decision to make." Not hard, Novak. No need to always make simple things complicated.

by ponchi101 Also, imagine, the horror of telling people you are vaccinated!!!! My god, if people would only know the shame I go through every time I fly into Africa and am asked about my vaccination book and status. I have been submitted, on several occasions, to the humiliation of having to show proof, PROOF!, of my vaccination status for yellow fever, tetanus, Hep A & B, and influenza. Not only that, I have been forced by potential employers to renew such vaccines, and in Bolivia I was forced to undergo my tetanus shot regime, IN PUBLIC!!!
Christ, next thing you know, they may ask him if he has herpes. Or, god forbid, gonorrhea. My god, what this man is being put through is unspeakable!

by Deuce I'm losing the respect I had for Pospisil based on his continued closeness with Djokovic.

by the Moz
Deuce wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:59 pm I'm losing the respect I had for Pospisil based on his continued closeness with Djokovic.
Took you long enough, but welcome :lol: :lol: :lol:

by oliver0001 World No.1 Ashleigh Barty maintains the future is bright for Olivia Gadecki despite the emerging Australian teenager skipping the Australian summer because she doesn’t want to get vaccinated for COVID-19.

The Australian Open vaccine mandate is expected to see some tennis stars opting against a trip Down Under but it was revealed this week that 19-year-old Gadecki was among them.

Source: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59ifv.html

by ti-amie I understand that Gadecki has been described as a "protege" of Barty so this defense is not a surprise. Still, in doing this Gadecki reminds me of the young actress who everyone thought had such a bright future ahead of her after her performance in "Black Panther" but who has walked away from the sequel because she is anit-vax.

by Suliso Anyway a bright future for a 19 year old hardly anyone outside Australia has heard off? Forget about it...

by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:54 am Anyway a bright future for a 19 year old hardly anyone outside Australia has heard off? Forget about it...
Aahhhh... 19 and ranked 237. Yep, that does not sound like a express train to stardom, specially in an era of such parity.

by Deuce It's a shame that she's essentially sabotaging her own progress - and very potentially her entire career - just for this reason.
This is assuming that she doesn't have a legitimate medical reason for not getting vaccinated - which it seems is the case.

by mmmm8
dmforever wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:20 am The plot thickens...or not. :)

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/australian- ... 0cpmc7b04w

Kevin
Not the main point but really lazy journalism from everyone reporting on this, it cannot be that hard to find out the vaccination requirements for a major venue in a major city. Their number and email are available on their website.


Anyway, if vaccination is not a requirement to enter, forget Novak, the rest of that venue is packed like sardines and maskless, good luck to them all.

by Suliso Nadal has tested positive. His AO campaign now in doubt.

by ponchi101 He said he was going to see how his body reacted after Abu Dhabi, but this early C19 result should not affect him in respect to traveling. He should be over it in a week or two, and then he could travel, provided he is over the disease. I gather his issue would be how to train these next few weeks.
But here it could be. The first Slam in two decades without Novak, Rafa, Roger and Serena. Just to get us used to them.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:39 pm He said he was going to see how his body reacted after Abu Dhabi, but this early C19 result should not affect him in respect to traveling. He should be over it in a week or two, and then he could travel, provided he is over the disease. I gather his issue would be how to train these next few weeks.
But here it could be. The first Slam in two decades without Novak, Rafa, Roger and Serena. Just to get us used to them.
Did he mention how he's feeling? Any symptoms?

by ponchi101 He only said he tested positive in the PCR test given to him by the Spanish govt upon entry to the country.

by JTContinental
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:37 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:39 pm He said he was going to see how his body reacted after Abu Dhabi, but this early C19 result should not affect him in respect to traveling. He should be over it in a week or two, and then he could travel, provided he is over the disease. I gather his issue would be how to train these next few weeks.
But here it could be. The first Slam in two decades without Novak, Rafa, Roger and Serena. Just to get us used to them.
Did he mention how he's feeling? Any symptoms?
In his statement he said he has been having some "unpleasant moments."

by meganfernandez
JTContinental wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:55 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:37 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:39 pm He said he was going to see how his body reacted after Abu Dhabi, but this early C19 result should not affect him in respect to traveling. He should be over it in a week or two, and then he could travel, provided he is over the disease. I gather his issue would be how to train these next few weeks.
But here it could be. The first Slam in two decades without Novak, Rafa, Roger and Serena. Just to get us used to them.
Did he mention how he's feeling? Any symptoms?
In his statement he said he has been having some "unpleasant moments."
that sounds like Rafa-ese for "I'm f-cked."

by MJ2004 He had dinner with the former king of Spain, Juan Carlos, (picture of them unmasked) on Saturday night in Abu Dhabi.

by Deuce For those who can understand Spanish...

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2021/12/1 ... bd1dd.html
Note that they seem to have also had a photo taken while masked just to make it look good (last photo in the article).

by Suliso
MJ2004 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:56 pm He had dinner with the former king of Spain, Juan Carlos, (picture of them unmasked) on Saturday night in Abu Dhabi.
Can one eat while masked? :?:

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 You see, I would give Vyklyantseva a break. It is not her fault that the sole vaccine available in her country has not been validated. Show your proof of vaccination, get PCR tested. But she is definitely not against vaccination.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:06 am You see, I would give Vyklyantseva a break. It is not her fault that the sole vaccine available in her country has not been validated. Show your proof of vaccination, get PCR tested. But she is definitely not against vaccination.
Seriously, Russia only has one vaccinate approved and it hasn't been verified? Can people get the shot in a different country, if they have the means? Is that allowed?

by ponchi101 I don't know. I know China only uses their vaccine, but I have no idea what the Russian Govt has set up.

by meganfernandez Bencic tested positive, though fully vaccinated. She's pretty sick. Plans to show up in Australia when she can. So that's three players from Mubadala who tested positive there or after they returned home, right? Raducanu, Nadal, and Bencic.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:03 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:06 am You see, I would give Vyklyantseva a break. It is not her fault that the sole vaccine available in her country has not been validated. Show your proof of vaccination, get PCR tested. But she is definitely not against vaccination.
Seriously, Russia only has one vaccinate approved and it hasn't been verified? Can people get the shot in a different country, if they have the means? Is that allowed?
Yes. But not sure if a Sputnik booster/second shot is given if your first one or two were elsewhere or vice versa. Tricky to plan around that.

I think it's pretty egregious that Sputnik isn't validated but the Chinese vaccines are.


Also, Russia actually has 3 vaccines avalable, newer ones were also released.

by ponchi101 I thought Raducanu had tested positive before the exo, but you are right. She was there already.

by ti-amie

by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:50 pm
Like clockwork. Mubadala was a superspreader, I guess.

by ti-amie I don't think there's any "guess" about it now though.

by mmmm8 The question is whether the superspreader patient zero is King Juan Carlos II

by skatingfan
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:03 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:06 am You see, I would give Vyklyantseva a break. It is not her fault that the sole vaccine available in her country has not been validated. Show your proof of vaccination, get PCR tested. But she is definitely not against vaccination.
Seriously, Russia only has one vaccinate approved and it hasn't been verified? Can people get the shot in a different country, if they have the means? Is that allowed?
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:46 pm I don't know. I know China only uses their vaccine, but I have no idea what the Russian Govt has set up.
A number of Russian figure skaters got an mRNA vaccine outside of Russia so that they would avoid problems entering countries like France where only vaccines approved in that country were recognized for entry.

by Deuce Shapovalov is now another positive COVID-19 case who was in Abu-Dhabi.
I think it's pretty safe to say that he didn't get it from sharing a banana with someone.

by ti-amie



by ti-amie

by ti-amie Meanwhile...


by ti-amie In case you've lost track:



Michal Samulski @MichalSamulski
No.6 - Andrey Rublev

by Suliso Is that now everyone who was is Abu Dhabi?

by skatingfan
Suliso wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:10 am Is that now everyone who was is Abu Dhabi?
No, there's still Evans, Fritz, & Murray.

by ti-amie



Tom Compayrot @Tom_Cprt

(2nd PS) : « and it's secondary, but
@ATPTour

how do you defend players in my case ? »

by JazzNU He's probably scared and lashing out, he likes to pretend he wasn't sick last time, but he was. But he's so exhausting.

by oliver0001 COVID-19 positives continue to hit players, including Roland Garros women’s finalist Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova.

“Unfortunately I have some bad news,” the 30-year-old said on Twitter.

“I arrived in Australia on Tuesday and tested positive for COVID-19.”

Said Pavlyuchenkova: “I was fully vaccinated and was preparing for the start of the season in Dubai. But we live in a very difficult and unpredictable time.

“Right now I am in complete isolation, in a special hotel and following all the protocols under the supervision of doctors.”

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59kx9.html

by JazzNU Kinda seeming like it's something approaching miraculous to have been in Dubai recently and not caught covid.

by oliver0001 Poland’s world No.231 Urszula Radwanska was one of the latest players to test positive.

“Unfortunately 2022 doesn’t start good for me,” Radwanska said on Twitter on Saturday.

“Today in Melbourne I tested positive for COVID. Despite the strong symptoms, I hope that I will recover quickly.”

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59l8t.html

by ponchi101 I wonder how the Aussie will handle players that come down with C19 when they are due to play a QF. Or, what happens if the player tests positive before the final.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:I wonder how the Aussie will handle players that come down with C19 when they are due to play a QF. Or, what happens if the player tests positive before the final.
Immediate quarantine and default. I have no doubt.


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by ponchi101 For the final, for example? That would mean a huge financial loss. They better think it over before the tournament starts.

by Suliso They could simply not test during the 2nd week. As they say wolves are fed and sheep are safe. ;)

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:59 pm For the final, for example? That would mean a huge financial loss. They better think it over before the tournament starts.
Yeah, I think there's no question the player will have to default and quarantine. I'm sure the tournament has thought it over and has a protocol for every stage of the tournament, although the round of play shouldn't matter. A positive player gets quarantined, bottom line. Right? The circumstances of any positive test are irrelevant, albeit not inconsequential. But it's a pretty small risk.

by Deuce Thy cynic in me says that they may very well silently not test anyone starting with the quarters or semis.

by ti-amie
Deuce wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:16 am Thy cynic in me says that they may very well silently not test anyone starting with the quarters or semis.
I want you to be wrong but...

by meganfernandez Rajeev Ram tested positive at the ATP Cup and isn't playing.

by ponchi101 ESPN L. America (showing ATP cup) is saying that Novak WILL NOT play the Aussie, due to the vaccine mandate.
Quote:
"Djokovic has stated that he is very disappointed with THE WORLD, because you can't force somebody to make these decisions".
If he really said that, that has got to be the most arrogant thing he has ever said. DISAPPOINTED WITH THE WORLD.
Yep, we are not very proud of you either.
(If all this IS TRUE. These are the two commentators broadcasting the Berrettini-Humbert match).

by meganfernandez They didn’t cite a source? There were “sources say” rumblings about this on Twitter today. Dude’s not playing.


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by Deuce I figure Djokovic probably feels that he is entitled to play the Aussie Open via a phony 'medical exemption' because he's won it so often, he's #1 in the world, he's going for Major #21, etc.

Don't be surprised if, at this time next year, he has set up a tournament/event to compete directly against the Aussie Open, and tries to 'steal' players away from Australia to play in his thing - simply as an act of retribution because they didn't give him what he feels he's entitled to.

by Fastbackss
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:15 am . Dude’s not playing.

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Things change fast!

Exemption granted

by meganfernandez
Fastbackss wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:15 am . Dude’s not playing.

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Things change fast!

Exemption granted
Got that one wrong. :) but he got lucky with the exemption.


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by Owendonovan I'm curious who, in the medical field, reviews/approves/denies these exemptions. I'm also curious what is so different about this vaccine that would cause such an adverse reaction to Nole compared to the childhood vaccines he no doubt has gotten.

by meganfernandez
Owendonovan wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:14 pm I'm curious who, in the medical field, reviews/approves/denies these exemptions. I'm also curious what is so different about this vaccine that would cause such an adverse reaction to Nole compared to the childhood vaccines he no doubt has gotten.
You could probably find some names and backgrounds pretty easily, although that wouldn't tell you much about the credibility of the process. Maybe some journalists in Melbourne have investigated the legitimacy of the panels.

“Djokovic applied for a medical exemption which was granted following a rigorous review process involving two separate independent panels of medical experts,” the statement said. “One of those was the Independent Medical Exemption Review Panel appointed by the Victorian Department of Health. They assessed all applications to see if they met the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation guidelines.”

The best thing that has come out of this so far is the faces of the British ATP Cup players at a press conference when they talked about it. Jamie Murray basically called it BS. https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/i-woul ... ideo.shtml

For once, I'm looking forward to hearing what Kyrgios has to say.

I'm usually a benefit-of-the-doubt kind of person. But this reeks of BS.

Guarantee you Rothenberg is already looking for other players who got exemptions to see if Djokovic was the only one. Someone will - or should - do a story on this. It would help to be on the ground in Melbourne. This is an example of when journalism could suffer from reporting remotely. You can't approach someone in the cafeteria or courtside digitally (not talking about just players). In other ways, digital helps a lot.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:57 pm
Got that one wrong. :) but he got lucky with the exemption.

Don't think there's an ounce of luck involved in this.

by ponchi101
JazzNU wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:17 pm ...

Don't think there's an ounce of luck involved in this.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Post of the (early) year so far (I am sure you will best yourself).
Guidelines for medical exemptions in Australia (copying relevant parts from the link):
Conditions that warrant a temporary exemption for Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines include inflammatory cardiac illness within the past six months, for example:

myocarditis, pericarditis, endocarditis
acute rheumatic fever or acute rheumatic heart disease (ie with active myocardial inflammation)
acute decompensated heart failure.

Patients may also be eligible for a temporary exemption from all available vaccines if they have:

had SARS-CoV-2 infection confirmed with a PCR test, vaccination can be deferred for up to six months
experienced a serious adverse event attributed to a previous dose of a COVID-19 vaccine and without another cause identified.

Examples of serious adverse events include:

thrombosis with thrombocytopenia (TTS) following AstraZeneca
medically significant illness (eg immune thrombocytopenia purpura, myocarditis)
potentially life-threatening events (eg anaphylaxis)
persistent or significant disability (eg Guillain-Barré Syndrome).

So:
There is no way an athlete of Novak's level has ANY of the conditions in the first three cases
Everybody knows that he has not had C19 IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, because he played the USO and was playing at the WTF. If he had it then, the tour should know, and if they allowed him to play with C19, that is the height of irresponsibility (which would not be totally unexpected, taking in consideration these eunuchs).
He CANNOT have experienced a reaction to a previous dose of the vaccine, because he has not had ANY dose of the vaccine.
The same rationale applies to the examples given.

So, he gets to play the Open because the government of Victoria suffers from a condition called aspinalitis, a very obscure genetic defect that voids people from having a spine.
He will get #21, and will be beloved in Serbia. But if this does not cement his status as tennis greatest villain EVER (yes, more than Nastase, more than Connors, more than Mac) I really wonder what else can he do.

Side opinion: what if he sent false information for the review? The article says the review is done anonymously, i.e., the board does not know who the data belongs to. If some people were willing to buy a vaccination card...

by Suliso Funny how he became a villain only late in his career. I'd not have called him that 5 years ago.

by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm Funny how he became a villain only late in his career. I'd not have called him that 5 years ago.
Indeed. Usually, it is the other way around. Connors dropped the label with age, Mac became more palatable, Nastase was accepted (only to later become one once more with more comments).
He was able to reverse that trend.

by Liamvalid
Suliso wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm Funny how he became a villain only late in his career. I'd not have called him that 5 years ago.
It’s strange because he seems to often suggest how much he wants to the public to like him, but then he appears to do everything he can to make the public DISlike him. A quick look on Twitter suggests this isn’t going to go down well with the locals in Australia anyways, but he now has a new found fan base of fellow anti-vaxers

by JTContinental
Suliso wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm Funny how he became a villain only late in his career. I'd not have called him that 5 years ago.
I think he always has been, or at least a viilain lite. I remember him doing things like quitting matches with fake injuries and breathing issues when he was losing early in his career, and catching a lot of heat for it.

by ti-amie Here's the word salad, uh, Tennis Australia statement.


by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by dmforever I don't have Twitter but saw a tweet saying that 20 other players got medical exemptions. Is that the case?

Sandgren apparently didn't apply because he didn't have any of the requisite medical conditions

So are the other Slams also going to require being vaxxed? What about non-slam tournaments? If any of the other tournaments do require vaccinations and end up not giving Novax an exemption, it's going to make the people who decided this look even worse, though I guess they must think it will just blow over and a month from now people won't even care.

I also read on Twitter that some people are saying there might be civil disobedience to protest this decision.

It's all kind of remarkable, in the very worst meaning of the word. :(

Kevin

by ti-amie As @Dennis said above people weren't allowed to come in for funerals but this man is. I can understand Australians being upset.

by ti-amie No ‘special favour’ given to Djokovic for vaccination exemption: Tennis Australia
Scott Spits
By Scott Spits
January 5, 2022

Australian Open organisers say 26 players or their support staff applied for a medical exemption from the COVID-19 vaccination but only a few were successful, as tournament chief Craig Tiley said there was “no special opportunity granted to Novak” for the world No.1’s exemption.

Amid severe public backlash to news that Novak Djokovic had been granted a medical exemption to compete in the Australian Open, tournament organisers defended the integrity of the review process run by the national and Victorian governments.

Nine-time champion Djokovic said on social media that he had received an “exemption permission” to travel to Australia and defend his title.

Tiley said he understood why the wider community was widely concerned by the ruling.

“People this morning would wake up to that news [and I] would completely understand and emphasise with them being completely upset with that condition,” Tiley told Nine, owner of this masthead.

“Really at the end of the day … not only was the process appropriately followed but the conditions in which any tennis player comes in - no matter who they are, conditions put on tennis and put on anyone coming into Australia by the Australian government.

“We’ve made that very clear from the beginning.”

Up to 3000 tennis professionals and support staff are travelling to Australia for summer tournaments. Tiley said only a “handful” of the 26 people who sought medical exemptions had been successful.

“If they didn’t meet the guidelines, and there were many that didn’t so therefore they were rejected, but if they met the guidelines including for example – which a lot of people forget – is one of those conditions is having COVID recently, in the past six months,” Tiley said.

“Any person who met those conditions has been allowed to come in. There’s been no special favour. There’s been no special opportunity granted to Novak.“

Djokovic, who has refused to disclose his vaccination status, broke his silence on Instagram, posting a photo of him with his bags at an airport.

“Wishing you all health, love, and happiness in every present moment and may you feel love & respect towards all beings on this wonderful planet,” he posted.

“I’ve spent fantastic quality time with my loved ones over the break and today I’m heading Down Under with an exemption permission.”

Tennis Australia later confirmed Djokovic met the requirements set out in Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) guidelines.

“Novak Djokovic will compete at the Australian Open and is on his way to Australia,” a Tennis Australia statement read.

“Djokovic applied for a medical exemption, which was granted following a rigorous review process involving two separate independent panels of medical experts.

“One of those was the Independent Medical Exemption Review Panel appointed by the Victorian Department of Health.”

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59lxn.html

by ti-amie They're not happy


by ti-amie MCOS tested positive?

by Liamvalid Looks like the Prime Minister is getting involved now, there has been a few articles about this on the BBC news this morning, including interviews from angry Aussies-this is from the website:
Amid the row, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Djokovic would be required to present evidence upon arrival that he has a genuine medical exemption from vaccination, or he would be "on the next plane home".

"If that evidence is insufficient, then he won't be treated any different to anyone else and he'll be on the next plane home," the prime minister told reporters. "There should be no special rules for Novak Djokovic at all. None whatsoever."

Many Australians had previously accused the government of allowing the rich and famous to do as they please while ordinary people remained separated from sick and dying loved ones.

"I think it's a disgrace," Christine Wharton, who lives in Melbourne, where the Australian Open will be held, told ABC.

"We've all done the right thing, we've all gone out and got our jabs and our boosters and we have someone that has come from overseas and all of a sudden he's been exempt and can play and I think it's an absolute disgrace and I won't be watching it."

A&E doctor Stephen Parnis tweeted: "I don't care how good a tennis player he is. If he's refusing to get vaccinated, he shouldn't be allowed in. "If this exemption is true, it sends an appalling message to millions seeking to reduce #COVID19Aus risk to themselves & others."

by meganfernandez Power to the people! There will be tremendous pressure to say what the exemption was. Maybe Djokovic will cough up some explanation (pun intended). Wonder if it will be true. A pundit on of the news shows in Australia said that the government will probably leak something if it's under too much heat.

by Woody Fun press conference game for journos: See how many times you can subtly sneak in a "Novax" when asking him questions. Always quickly follow his name with an s-word so he never really knows for sure...

by Owendonovan Does he not have a PR team outside his family or something? (I'm dying to see him get sent home)

by ponchi101 Well, the PM seems clear on the matter.

by JazzNU Not that it's not bad to miss a loved one's funeral, but understand that there are plenty of Australians with verifiable medical conditions not getting vaccinated on the advice of their doctors who have not been granted exemptions and are forced to live like hermits for the time being.

He's even pissing off the unvaccinated population since they lost their jobs not getting the vaccine in line with the mandates and weren't granted exemptions.

Any Australian news outlet's articles on Twitter tends to have many comments from local and stranded Aussies, it's very informative on getting a read on how these decisions will go over. This one landed like a lead balloon.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51 am MCOS tested positive?
Yes, Camila tested positive. She's hoping to still be able to play the Aussie Open, but will have to wait and see how it plays out.

by dmforever
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51 am MCOS tested positive?
Yes, Camila tested positive. She's hoping to still be able to play the Aussie Open, but will have to wait and see how it plays out.
I don't know what MCOS stands for. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

Kevin

by dmforever
dmforever wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:51 pm
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51 am MCOS tested positive?
Yes, Camila tested positive. She's hoping to still be able to play the Aussie Open, but will have to wait and see how it plays out.
I don't know what MCOS stands for. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

Kevin

by dmforever Never mind. I got it. I forgot there are two Camila's now. I couldn't figure out how MCOS = Giorgi. :)

Sorry for the posts.

Kevin

by JazzNU
dmforever wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:51 pm
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51 am MCOS tested positive?
Yes, Camila tested positive. She's hoping to still be able to play the Aussie Open, but will have to wait and see how it plays out.
I don't know what MCOS stands for. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

Kevin
Maria Camila Osorio Serrano. She's the promising player out of Colombia. Though that was the name she played under for the last year, she's shortened it officially to Camila Osorio, so that's the name you'll see in competition going forward. But you might see her referenced as MCOS, Camila, or Cami, all the same player.'


ETA: Kevin got it already, but I'll leave this up in case anyone else is confused.

by ti-amie Maria Camilla Osorio Serrano, a promising young player from Colombia.

by Woody It's Tennis Drama Day and I am 100% here for it!


by meganfernandez
Woody wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:38 pm It's Tennis Drama Day and I am 100% here for it!

Yes, it has been a delightful little surprise today.

by Woody

by meganfernandez Now we know why God made that gif of Federer and Nadal giggling uncontrollably. For this moment.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:38 pm Now we know why God made that gif of Federer and Nadal giggling uncontrollably. For this moment.


by Liamvalid So can he just fly home, re-do the visa form, and fly back?

by JazzNU

by ponchi101
Liamvalid wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:21 pm So can he just fly home, re-do the visa form, and fly back?
Not so quick. Fly back home, develop a severe medical condition during the flight (easy, it is something like 16 hours of flight) OR catch C19 from a fellow deportee, keep flying back EAST so he can cross the international date line 14 times and arrive in Australia on December 31st, go through quarantine and THEN get his paperwork. If he goes the "I have developed Hyper MioCarditis Angina", he simply has to prove it at some reasonable doctor. I gather that pushing the plane could do that for him.

by JazzNU

by JazzNU Prime Minister of Australia





Australia's Health Minister


by Liamvalid
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:36 pm
Liamvalid wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:21 pm So can he just fly home, re-do the visa form, and fly back?
Not so quick. Fly back home, develop a severe medical condition during the flight (easy, it is something like 16 hours of flight) OR catch C19 from a fellow deportee, keep flying back EAST so he can cross the international date line 14 times and arrive in Australia on December 31st, go through quarantine and THEN get his paperwork. If he goes the "I have developed Hyper MioCarditis Angina", he simply has to prove it at some reasonable doctor. I gather that pushing the plane could do that for him.
But the medical exemption is still in place, right? It’s just the visa form being processed incorrectly that has caused him to be refused. Can’t he just re-apply for the correct visa? This is such a big story, it’s been a long while since I’ve been inspired to actually search the BBC for a tennis story!

by ponchi101 Nope. It has been clear that it is not a visa thing. He simply cannot show he is complying with the exceptions, or that he is vaccinated. The visa is not the issue, it is that he simply cannot comply with the requirement.

by Liamvalid
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:50 pm Nope. It has been clear that it is not a visa thing. He simply cannot show he is complying with the exceptions, or that he is vaccinated. The visa is not the issue, it is that he simply cannot comply with the requirement.
Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. If it was anyone else I would feel really bad them

by JazzNU
Liamvalid wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:42 pm
But the medical exemption is still in place, right? It’s just the visa form being processed incorrectly that has caused him to be refused. Can’t he just re-apply for the correct visa? This is such a big story, it’s been a long while since I’ve been inspired to actually search the BBC for a tennis story!
No, not at all. His visa was being reviewed for the medical exemption of the vaccine. The Victorian government had granted that exemption to him. The Australia Border Force is a national enforcement agency, so when he landed, they reviewed his entry which includes a review of visa and vaccine status. They reviewed the evidence provided for the exemption as they would a regular person and said it was insufficient to gain entry.

Meaning it's what everyone thought. Tennis Australia struck some deal with the "independent" Victorian health panel to rubber stamp his exemption application. And whatever wheels were greased by TA to get him into the country, have fallen apart mightily.

by Liamvalid
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:54 pm
Liamvalid wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:42 pm
But the medical exemption is still in place, right? It’s just the visa form being processed incorrectly that has caused him to be refused. Can’t he just re-apply for the correct visa? This is such a big story, it’s been a long while since I’ve been inspired to actually search the BBC for a tennis story!
No, not at all. His visa was being reviewed for the medical exemption of the vaccine. The Victorian government had granted that exemption to him. The Australia Border Force is a national enforcement agency, so when he landed, they reviewed his entry which includes a review of visa and vaccine status. They reviewed the evidence provided for the exemption as they would a regular person and said it was insufficient to gain entry.

Meaning it's what everyone thought. Tennis Australia struck some deal with the "independent" Victorian health panel to rubber stamp his exemption application. And whatever wheels were greased by TA to get him into the country, have fallen apart mightily.
Wow this is wild! And the Serbian president going crazy over it. Who’d have thought instead of winning 21, he’d be starting world war 3

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:50 pm Nope. It has been clear that it is not a visa thing. He simply cannot show he is complying with the exceptions, or that he is vaccinated. The visa is not the issue, it is that he simply cannot comply with the requirement.
Curious, how has that been clear? All the reporting and official statement cited the visa. I didn't see any reporting that the border authorities re-evaluated the merit of his medical exemption. Do you know where that is coming from?

by dryrunguy Next up from the Novax camp... Full on victimhood and martyrdom mode.

by MJ2004
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:54 pm Meaning it's what everyone thought. Tennis Australia struck some deal with the "independent" Victorian health panel to rubber stamp his exemption application. And whatever wheels were greased by TA to get him into the country, have fallen apart mightily.
They probably expected the national powers-that-be to rubber-stamp their move, which might have happened if s*** hadn't hit the fan yesterday and public opinion hadn't exploded. If Djoker hadn't posted from the airport and everyone had kept quiet until he was in the country, things might have gone differently.

by ti-amie

by MJ2004 The subtext of his awesome reply: "we have more important, real issues to worry about related to COVID" followed by "suck it up".

by dmforever I really want to know the details. Which doctors accepted whatever evidence he offered? What evidence did he offer? Did the doctors who accepted his evidence tell him that he would have to meet a higher standard of proof upon arrival in Australia? Or was he just hoping?

What a totally insane situation.

Kevin

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:01 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:50 pm Nope. It has been clear that it is not a visa thing. He simply cannot show he is complying with the exceptions, or that he is vaccinated. The visa is not the issue, it is that he simply cannot comply with the requirement.
Curious, how has that been clear? All the reporting and official statement cited the visa. I didn't see any reporting that the border authorities re-evaluated the merit of his medical exemption. Do you know where that is coming from?
I posted the video on the previous page and @Ti posted it again on this one. It's 2 minutes long and worth watching. The statement from the Australia Border Force and the Health Minister make it clear that the visa holdup was about the evidence for the exemption. Maybe it was something else initially and that's why so many were reporting that part, but it's not why he's been denied.

by meganfernandez
Fastbackss wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:15 am . Dude’s not playing.

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Things change fast!

Exemption granted
And change back just as fast!


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by ponchi101 JazzNu has a better explanation, but I should have said, indeed, that it was the LATEST news. Megan, you are right in that there is nothing clear about this mess.

by Owendonovan I'm also enjoying Novax sat on a plane for 14 hours, isolated, and will have to turn around and do another 14 hour flight home again. 28+ hours airporting and on a plane over a 48 hour period, shoot me. (maybe this belongs in what level Dante?)

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:04 am JazzNu has a better explanation, but I should have said, indeed, that it was the LATEST news. Megan, you are right in that there is nothing clear about this mess.
I ended up finding some reporting on that. Right, not clear, but now I know where it was coming from.

by JazzNU This is from a recent article about Djokovic that might make the border entry a bit more clear in a succinct manner.


Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews then clarified the border process.

"While the Victorian government and Tennis Australia may permit a non-vaccinated player to compete in the Australian Open, it is the Commonwealth government that will enforce our requirements at the Australian border,'' Andrews said. "If an arriving individual is not vaccinated, they must provide acceptable proof that they cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons to be able to access the same travel arrangement as fully vaccinated travelers.''



https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... -exemption

by ponchi101 I just read from another person in another forum, and who said it with glee, that if you get deported from Australia you face an automatic 3 years ban from entering. If that is true, his days of playing at the Aussie are over, most likely. And this person is from Adelaide.

by Liamvalid Djokovic and his lawyers have been successful in an injunction against the deportation and are appealing against the decision, but his legal challenge has been adjourned until Monday, so he will now have to stay in the quarantine hotel until then.

by Suliso He's rich and have top class lawyers. I'd not be surprised if he still somehow weasels out.

by Woody
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:16 am I just read from another person in another forum, and who said it with glee, that if you get deported from Australia you face an automatic 3 years ban from entering. If that is true, his days of playing at the Aussie are over, most likely. And this person is from Adelaide.
I saw this on Twitter yesterday. Unless he lied or provided falsified documents or something, there's absolutely no way he's going to get a 3-year ban. As far as we know, he went there in good faith, thinking he had a valid exemption.

https://visaenvoy.com/re-entry-ban-exclusion-period/

by meganfernandez
Woody wrote:
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:16 am I just read from another person in another forum, and who said it with glee, that if you get deported from Australia you face an automatic 3 years ban from entering. If that is true, his days of playing at the Aussie are over, most likely. And this person is from Adelaide.
I saw this on Twitter yesterday. Unless he lied or provided falsified documents or something, there's absolutely no way he's going to get a 3-year ban. As far as we know, he went there in good faith, thinking he had a valid exemption.

https://visaenvoy.com/re-entry-ban-exclusion-period/
Agree, that would be too harsh.


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by JTContinental Novak's parents should teach a master class in hyperbole

by ti-amie Meanwhile...



He tested positive after Abu Dhabi...or was it Dubai?

by Liamvalid It’s been reported that Renata Voracova has also had her visa cancelled and is being detained in the same immigration hotel as Djokovic.

Also seems that Kyrgios is kind of defending Nole, saying that the Australian handling of the situation has been really bad

by Fastbackss
Liamvalid wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:59 am It’s been reported that Renata Voracova has also had her visa cancelled and is being detained in the same immigration hotel as Djokovic.

Also seems that Kyrgios is kind of defending Nole, saying that the Australian handling of the situation has been really bad
I had never heard of Voracova (doesn't make the situation any less worse for her - but won't also make the press as much as if it were a major ATP player for example)

As for Kyrgios - I would argue that, without further context of your comment, those two things can be exclusive. Saying Australia handled this poorly ... but without defending Nole

by Liamvalid
Fastbackss wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:36 am
Liamvalid wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:59 am It’s been reported that Renata Voracova has also had her visa cancelled and is being detained in the same immigration hotel as Djokovic.

Also seems that Kyrgios is kind of defending Nole, saying that the Australian handling of the situation has been really bad
I had never heard of Voracova (doesn't make the situation any less worse for her - but won't also make the press as much as if it were a major ATP player for example)

As for Kyrgios - I would argue that, without further context of your comment, those two things can be exclusive. Saying Australia handled this poorly ... but without defending Nole
Here’s the full quote:
Look I definitely believe in taking action, I got vaccinated because of others and for my mums health, but how we are handling Novak’s situation is bad, really bad. Like these memes, headlines, this is one of our great champions but at the end of the day, he is human. Do better.

by Suliso I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.

by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.
To me, it's unclear if the agency that approves visas evaluated the merits of the medical exemption or waited until he arrived to do so. There seems to have been a breakdown between the state of Victoria's authority to provide an exemption and the authority it would carry at the federal level... although the feds told Tennis Australia (and maybe Victorian authorities, not sure) that having Covid within 6 months did not justify a medical exemption. It's unclear to me whether border control had a problem with that justification, with Djokovic's evidence for it, or both.

If Australia messed up internally with its processes and inadvertently gave Djokovic a legal basis for entering the country, perhaps he has a leg to stand on in court Monday. At least those proceedings should be public - or the records, if Australia is anything like the US - so real, sworn-upon facts and documents will be available. We'll know the full story then.

by the Moz A legal perspective on proceedings...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59904833

If Novax and his team did not verse themselves in the rules at the state or federal level then that's on them.

by meganfernandez
the Moz wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:02 pm A legal perspective on proceedings...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59904833

If Novax and his team did not verse themselves in the rules at the state or federal level then that's on them.
Another good one, by a former immigration official in Australia, if you want to get into the weeds of their border policies and practices.

by ponchi101 He should be isolated, of course. And it was very clear from the beginning that he was not vaccinated and that his exemption status would be based on bogus claims (chronical health issues would be ridiculous for a player of his caliber). Heck, we know of about 50 people in the world that called this on him (we did).
But he should not be detained at that location. He is an absolute no flight risk, and anyway, it is not as if he has intentions to stay in Australia as an illegal alien. He has enough money to put down a credit card and rent an entire hotel and be isolated there, if allowed to do so. In that aspect, I would grant him a small leeway.
If his father had shown up, on the other hand, the Aussie version of Alcatraz. Please.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm uld be isolated, of course. And it was very clear from the beginning that he was not vaccinated and that his exemption status would be based on bogus claims (chronical health issues would be ridiculous for a player of his caliber). Heck, we know of about 50 people in the world that called this on him (we did).
But he should not be detained at that location. He is an absolute no flight risk, and anyway, it is not as if he has intentions to stay in Australia as an illegal alien. He has enough money to put down a credit card and rent an entire hotel and be isolated there, if allowed to do so. In that aspect, I would grant him a small leeway.
If his father had shown up, on the other hand, the Aussie version of Alcatraz.
He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.

by Owendonovan
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:29 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm uld be isolated, of course. And it was very clear from the beginning that he was not vaccinated and that his exemption status would be based on bogus claims (chronical health issues would be ridiculous for a player of his caliber). Heck, we know of about 50 people in the world that called this on him (we did).
But he should not be detained at that location. He is an absolute no flight risk, and anyway, it is not as if he has intentions to stay in Australia as an illegal alien. He has enough money to put down a credit card and rent an entire hotel and be isolated there, if allowed to do so. In that aspect, I would grant him a small leeway.
If his father had shown up, on the other hand, the Aussie version of Alcatraz.
He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.
He's given no reason to be trusted he would follow the rules of staying at a house instead of where he's being held. It would also be perceived as special treatment, which is ultimately what's at the heart of the issue of him being in Australia.

by ponchi101 Oh, sure, but if he as much as walks out the door of his room, then I say prison. But Megan's comment of how he is becoming a martyr for the anti-vaxx crowd is spot on.

by atlpam Sorry to disagree here, but technically he is not in Australia, so he needs to stay in whatever location the government holds people who have not been admitted to the country. If he doesn't like the accommodations, he is free to leave the country.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:29 pm

He'd be happy to rent a house, too. I agree, let him stay somewhere else if he wants to. Doesn't hurt anyone. But it helps his martyr image to stick it out with the other asylum-seekers.
You're asking that Novak get special treatment because of who he is. He's not being kept where he is because he's a flight risk, but because this is part of their protocol for detainment for those who enter in this manner. He's being treated like everyone else.

Him renting a house is tantamount to him being given passage into the country.

by JazzNU
Suliso wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.
Counterpoint - when you knowingly break the entry laws of the country you enter, it is on you what happens when you get caught in the act of breaking the law.

Not saying this couldn't have been handled better, but the moment Australia set out their rules for visiting foreigners, Novak knew what was required to enter. Putting the blame on others for Novak starting from jump attempting to circumvent the law shouldn't happen. But for Novak lying to secure his medical exemption, he's not in this situation. Make no mistake, he created this situation, no one else did, thru his dishonest actions.

Also realize that the theatre that is occurring is taking place because of Novak's celebrity and only that. Is tennis player we've never heard of causing theatre of any kind? Because if he doesn't flaunt circumventing those laws to his millions of social media followers, he was bragging with that photo he posted, then he's likely past border check like the other players were.


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by ti-amie If they let him stay at the house he'd already rented he would then have entered the country and that would (could) shift the legal argument a bit. He is being held outside of the country at this point and unless he is given special treatment, should stay where he is.

by ti-amie A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.


by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.
He should be fired for all of this. But will he be? Seems like he knows where the bodies are buried, his tenure rarely seems in doubt.

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:22 pm
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondence between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.
He should be fired for all of this. But will he be? Seems like he knows where the bodies are buried, his tenure rarely seems in doubt.
The longer this goes the more obvious it becomes that Tiley should be cited for violating his countries laws. But this is tennis

by ponchi101 As you say. One thing is trying to bring the defending champion in, another is going to this length to ensure he us in by circumventing the law.
Fired from the job seems tame. I gather at least some very strict talks between him, BF, and immigration people.

by meganfernandez
atlpam wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:33 pm Sorry to disagree here, but technically he is not in Australia, so he needs to stay in whatever location the government holds people who have not been admitted to the country. If he doesn't like the accommodations, he is free to leave the country.
well, that's true. He technically hasn't been admitted to the country.

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:58 pm
Suliso wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am I kind of agree. He should not have been given the visa in the first place instead of all this theatre.
Counterpoint - when you knowingly break the entry laws of the country you enter, it is on you what happens when you get caught in the act of breaking the law.

Not saying this couldn't have been handled better, but the moment Australia set out their rules for visiting foreigners, Novak knew what was required to enter. Putting the blame on others for Novak starting from jump attempting to circumvent the law shouldn't happen. But for Novak lying to secure his medical exemption, he's not in this situation. Make no mistake, he created this situation, no one else did, thru his dishonest actions.

Also realize that the theatre that is occurring is taking place because of Novak's celebrity and only that. Is tennis player we've never heard of causing theatre of any kind? Because if he doesn't flaunt circumventing those laws to his millions of social media followers, he was bragging with that photo he posted, then he's likely past border check like the other players were.


Image
BTW thanks for the visual representation of FaFo :lol:

by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:17 pm A long time member of Tennis Twitter took the time to circumvent the paywall of this Murdoch owned outlet so that we can all see the correspondance between Tiley/TA and the Australian government. It's clear Tiley came up with a scheme to circumvent his own government's immigration policies re the virus. That Voracova will leave and the official involved has already left says it all.

Crux of the article is that Tennis Australia didn't tell the state of Victoria that they knew the feds didn't consider prior Covid to be a valid exemption. TA should have, but also Victorian officials should have checked with the feds and not taken TA's word for it.

The ATAGI guidelines say that having Covid within since months is a valid reason for a medical exemption, so I don't know why the feds told TA it isn't. That's accurate as of late November 2021, per the lateset ATAGI guidelines on its website. Doesn't say anything about requiring a vaccine shot on top of that. It's still possible that the border force didn't find Djokovic's supporting documents convincing, but why are they overruling doctors on medical merits?

This is interesting - the article above says that TA told the players in its letter:
--"Recent PCR-confirmed COVID-19 infection (after 31 July 2021), where vaccination can be deferred until six months after the infection" is a valid reason for a medical exemption. But also: "The current ATAGI guidance for those who have had a recent COVID infection is to be vaccinated once you have recovered from the acute illness." (I actually don't see this in the current ATAGI guidelines, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.)
--TA recently said: “The purpose of this document was to explain eligibility to participate in the AO under Victorian laws which required that an exemption be in line with the ATAGI guidance.
--The ATAGI guidelines (in TA's letter) contradict the statement that a PCR-confirmed infection = exemption. No, ATAGI still says get the shot as soon as you're well.

by ti-amie I dunno Megan. "Your word is your bond". Tiley has been working with various governments of Victoria for years I would imagine and he's always played it straight with them. There was no reason for them to check. I'm sure they never thought he'd try and play them like this. His actions are going to result in future governments looking over the shoulder of whoever is Tournament Director going forward and nitpicking everything.

by meganfernandez
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:47 pm I dunno Megan. "Your word is your bond". Tiley has been working with various governments of Victoria for years I would imagine and he's always played it straight with them. There was no reason for them to check. I'm sure they never thought he'd try and play them like this. His actions are going to result in future governments looking over the shoulder of whoever is Tournament Director going forward and nitpicking everything.
I see what you mean, maybe had no reason to distrust TA. But this was an exception to federal immigration policy. Pretty big one to take TA's word. You'd think someone in the state would have needed a document or proof to spread the word - "See the attached letter from the Commonwealth to Tennis Australia confirming that a Covid infection since July 31 is a valid reason for a medical exemption." There could be more to this because it seems like a gross oversight to me. For instance, maybe the state DID get something from TA, but didn't know that TA had also gotten OTHER documents that muddied the waters.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:41 pm
The ATAGI guidelines say that having Covid within since months is a valid reason for a medical exemption, so I don't know why the feds told TA it isn't. That's accurate as of late November 2021, per the lateset ATAGI guidelines on its website. Doesn't say anything about requiring a vaccine shot on top of that. It's still possible that the border force didn't find Djokovic's supporting documents convincing, but why are they overruling doctors on medical merits?
Too many assumptions made here. Looking at what federal immunization guidelines list as a reason for a medical exemption will have no bearing on what is required for Djokovic. Those are guidelines for Australians to get medical exemptions. Australian Border Force can and clearly does have different parameters that foreigners must meet to enter the country. You will need to go find something from them that says the exact same rules apply for foreigners entering the country for what you're saying to be accurate.

by JazzNU

by Deuce It wasn't only Djokovic who 'misread the mood of the Australian public' - Tennis Australia also obviously miscalculated the reaction of the Australian public.
They seem to have bent over backwards (and maybe also bent the rules) to ensure that Djokovic plays the Aussie Open, not realizing that the overwhelming majority of Aussies would prefer that he NOT play...

That's quite a major miscalculation.

by Liamvalid Novak’s court documents have revealed he had a positive PCR test on 16th December, this is what his lawyers are going to use in court.

If they are successful, I would love to know what Voracova’s reason for exemption was

by Deuce
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 am Novak’s court documents have revealed he had a positive PCR test on 16th December, this is what his lawyers are going to use in court.
:lol:
If true, that's hilarious!
If he really did have a positive PCR test on December 16th, 2021, my guess is that it was either some type of fake document, or that he deliberately contracted the virus in the hope that it would provide him with the medical exemption for the Aussie Open. Given the timing, it's far too convenient and co-incidental to believe that it was a legitimate positive PCR result.

As well, my understanding from what I've read is that having had COVID-19 recently is NOT a valid reason for a medical exemption to enter Australia - such a person would also need to be vaccinated with a vaccine that is officially recognized by Australia.

by Liamvalid
Deuce wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:02 am
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 am Novak’s court documents have revealed he had a positive PCR test on 16th December, this is what his lawyers are going to use in court.
:lol:
If true, that's hilarious!
If he really did have a positive PCR test on December 16th, 2021, my guess is that it was either some type of fake document, or that he deliberately contracted the virus in the hope that it would provide him with the medical exemption for the Aussie Open. Given the timing, it's far too convenient and co-incidental to believe that it was a legitimate positive PCR result.

As well, my understanding from what I've read is that having had COVID-19 recently is NOT a valid reason for a medical exemption to enter Australia - such a person would also need to be vaccinated with a vaccine that is officially recognized by Australia.
I haven’t had chance to follow much tennis at all recently, so was hoping to read on here on Novak’s activities in December. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was to be pictured at big parties or sporting events without a mask or social distancing, that’s for sure.
But as you say, it may be in vain if the rule is that you must still have a jab, even if you have the natural immunity of a recent infection, and even that is questionable with COVID.
His lawyers must think they have a strong case though to be going through all this, or do you think it’s just Novak clutching at straws?

by Deuce
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:36 am
Deuce wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:02 am
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 am Novak’s court documents have revealed he had a positive PCR test on 16th December, this is what his lawyers are going to use in court.
:lol:
If true, that's hilarious!
If he really did have a positive PCR test on December 16th, 2021, my guess is that it was either some type of fake document, or that he deliberately contracted the virus in the hope that it would provide him with the medical exemption for the Aussie Open. Given the timing, it's far too convenient and co-incidental to believe that it was a legitimate positive PCR result.

As well, my understanding from what I've read is that having had COVID-19 recently is NOT a valid reason for a medical exemption to enter Australia - such a person would also need to be vaccinated with a vaccine that is officially recognized by Australia.
I haven’t had chance to follow much tennis at all recently, so was hoping to read on here on Novak’s activities in December. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was to be pictured at big parties or sporting events without a mask or social distancing, that’s for sure.
But as you say, it may be in vain if the rule is that you must still have a jab, even if you have the natural immunity of a recent infection, and even that is questionable with COVID.
His lawyers must think they have a strong case though to be going through all this, or do you think it’s just Novak clutching at straws?
I doubt his lawyers honestly care whether they win or lose - either way, Djokovic is paying them a handsome amount of money.

As for Djokovic, I think he feels that he's simply trying to get what he feels he deserves; what he's entitled to.
That these top tennis players are completely spoiled in every element of life - on and off the court - should not be forgotten in this circumstance. They get chauffeured around everywhere - and when they drive themselves, they buy whatever vehicles they want to drive... they live in mansions... they are at luxurious resorts when they're not playing, etc., etc... They are adored (superficially) by 'fans' and are literally viewed as demi-gods. They are so accustomed to people 'adoring' them, and to always getting what they want, and to having people wait on them hand and foot, that not getting what they want and having to live as a 'common person' - even for a few days - is an extremely foreign feeling to them. Perhaps even traumatic, in a twisted way...

Look at how he - and his parents, sigh - have demanded that he be allowed to get out of that peasant hotel and go to the house he rented (which is surely luxurious)... look how he wants his personal chef to cook him food at the hotel... These are things he feels completely entitled to - because he has always gotten exactly what he wanted over the past 15 years or so. He cannot begin to understand how it can be possible that he doesn't get what he wants.
This is all the more reason why I truly hope that he will be thrown out of Australia soon. It will be a much needed lesson in humility for him. And maybe others who are also accustomed to getting everything they want will learn something valuable from it, as well.

by Owendonovan Seems more and more that Tennis Australia, Tiley in particular, are the shady culprits of this whole debacle, yet it doesn't feel like they/he are being portrayed this way. Seems to be being put on the Victorian and Australian governments. (or am I reading this all wrong?) Novax doesn't seem bothered or aware that he is now reviled by a very significant part of the Australian population and tennis fans internationally. Being boo'd mercilessly at every tournament he enters from here on out will no doubt have some kind of negative effect on his mental health which will affect his game negatively, I would think.

by ponchi101
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:36 am ...

I haven’t had chance to follow much tennis at all recently, so was hoping to read on here on Novak’s activities in December. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was to be pictured at big parties or sporting events without a mask or social distancing, that’s for sure.
But as you say, it may be in vain if the rule is that you must still have a jab, even if you have the natural immunity of a recent infection, and even that is questionable with COVID.
His lawyers must think they have a strong case though to be going through all this, or do you think it’s just Novak clutching at straws?
My GF found on IG the list of places he went to around mid December. A basketball game, an event with kids, a few more. He never even remotely went into quarantine, if he did get C19.
The guy that needs to answer a lot of questions is Tiley. I will grant Novax the benefit of doubt that he was told he could come in, as the head of the tournament told him so. But this seems to have been very reckless from Tiley's side.

by dryrunguy I specifically remember someone here posting a picture of Novax at a basketball game--front row, no mask, etc. Seems like that would have been around 12/16. Or perhaps that picture was older than that.

by ponchi101 No, that was the game I was talking about.

by dmforever I read someone's post on Twitter which summed it up for me. Nnvax shouldn't have asked for an exemption. TA shouldn't have told him he would get one. And the Australian government shouldn't have waited until he arrived to let him and/or TA know that he wouldn't be let in.

Kevin

by JazzNU




by JazzNU ^^ In addition to this and the basketball game he attended maskless in Belgrade, if he really did conveniently contract covid in mid-December, there's the issue of Jelena, a certain close contact, being out during the time when she should have been quarantined, especially since one can assume she is unvaccinated. Seriously reckless family if true.

Which call me naïve, I think is a stretch for both, so it just makes me think the web of lies is growing for Novax.

by dmforever Obviously doing all of those things with a positive test is more reckless, but even if he hadn't tested positive, it would have been reckless. But no one else is masked either. It's really shocking.

Kevin

by JazzNU Nick Stylianou
@nmsonline

On 25th December, Novak Djokovic is pictured twice on the streets of Belgrade. He’s gently returning a tennis ball in a video & posing with a fan in another photo.

Serbian COVID rules state that you must self-isolate for 14 days after a positive PCR test. This was day 9.

https://twitter.com/nmsonline/status/14 ... 284813830



by ti-amie 'Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive'
The Scottish Play

Calling it by its name is supposed to be bad luck.

by dryrunguy Presuming 12/16 is the accurate day for the supposed positive test and presuming that the dates of all of these other events are also accurate, give me a scenario where the optics of this can even remotely be good? Either 1) they are lying about the positive test entirely or 2) they are telling the truth about the test and Novax went out of his way to be a super-spreader...

Am I missing something?

by the Moz I understand the 'panel' process was anonymous. But surely the accepted reasons for entering Australia at the state & federal levels without vaccination were binding and on the public record the day Novax was granted his exemption, right??

by JazzNU
dryrunguy wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:03 pm Presuming 12/16 is the accurate day for the supposed positive test and presuming that the dates of all of these other events are also accurate, give me a scenario where the optics of this can even remotely be good? Either 1) they are lying about the positive test entirely or 2) they are telling the truth about the test and Novax went out of his way to be a super-spreader...

Am I missing something?

It continues to be amazing how bad he and the people he hires are at handling his PR blunders. A college course in how not to do Crisis Management.


Image

by ponchi101
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:06 pm ---


It continues to be amazing how bad he and the people he hires are at handling his PR blunders. A college course in how not to do Crisis Management.

...
Well, it has been years of his PR people not even understanding that the first thing they need to buy is a roll of duct tape and wrap his dad with it.
Other than that, what you say.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:
Liamvalid wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:36 am ...

I haven’t had chance to follow much tennis at all recently, so was hoping to read on here on Novak’s activities in December. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was to be pictured at big parties or sporting events without a mask or social distancing, that’s for sure.
But as you say, it may be in vain if the rule is that you must still have a jab, even if you have the natural immunity of a recent infection, and even that is questionable with COVID.
His lawyers must think they have a strong case though to be going through all this, or do you think it’s just Novak clutching at straws?
My GF found on IG the list of places he went to around mid December. A basketball game, an event with kids, a few more. He never even remotely went into quarantine, if he did get C19.
The guy that needs to answer a lot of questions is Tiley. I will grant Novax the benefit of doubt that he was told he could come in, as the head of the tournament told him so. But this seems to have been very reckless from Tiley's side.
Not only the head of the tournament (whose word isn’t an authority) - but his visa was granted. Probably should never have been granted if he didn’t meet the requirements for entry.


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by meganfernandez
dryrunguy wrote:I specifically remember someone here posting a picture of Novax at a basketball game--front row, no mask, etc. Seems like that would have been around 12/16. Or perhaps that picture was older than that.
Yes around then. Maybe that’s when he got COVID. On one hand, the timing is too perfect if he got it right after the season ended and in enough time to recover to travel to Australia. Then again, he’s unvaccinated, which makes it pretty easy to catch if you want to.


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by Deuce It seems that Djokovic's master plan was either to get a fake positive PCR document or to deliberately and conveniently contract COVID-19 at just the right time... And this "I had COVID-19 a month ago" thing is the only card he's playing... and along with this declaration comes the knowledge that, while he was supposedly COVID positive, or at least while he was awaiting his PCR result - either way, he was supposed to stay away from others - he attended several public events and posed for many photos with people unmasked.
This is the card he's playing - a card that makes him look like even more of a jackass than previously (which none of us thought was possible).

Honestly, this entire situation is absolutely pathetic.
Let's get this pitiful saga over with once and for all and just do what needs to be done:
Djokovic should be suspended for all of 2022, Tiley should be fired from his position and never be able to work for any official tennis entity again, and some sort of significant punishment should be handed to the Australian Open (something that does not also penalize the players).

by JazzNU New date of activity post-PCR. Masked during interview, maskless during photoshoot.






by dmforever I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Can Novax argue that he did test postive for Covid on Dec 16 but how responsible he was after that is not part of the decision making process?

Kevin

by Deuce Dangerous irresponsibility is usually not viewed as being a virtue.
Or even a neutral element.

by meganfernandez
dmforever wrote:I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Can Novax argue that he did test postive for Covid on Dec 16 but how responsible he was after that is not part of the decision making process?

Kevin
Yeah the Australia court should factor his morality into its legal decision, but it might question the veracity of his test given his actions, if something about the documents seems suspicious.


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by Owendonovan
dmforever wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:26 am I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Can Novax argue that he did test postive for Covid on Dec 16 but how responsible he was after that is not part of the decision making process?

Kevin
I think Novax will argue anything that he thinks we get him what he wants.

by dmforever
Owendonovan wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:56 am
dmforever wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:26 am I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Can Novax argue that he did test postive for Covid on Dec 16 but how responsible he was after that is not part of the decision making process?

Kevin
I think Novax will argue anything that he thinks we get him what he wants.
I agree.

Kevin

by ponchi101 I'll go one up on you. I believe he will LIE about anything if he thinks it will get him into the tournament. For some reason, I just can't believe he did not produce a fake C19 vaccination certificate.

by Suliso I have a feeling Djokovic will prevail in his lawsuit. He has top class lawyers and no doubt government messed up some formality.

by ponchi101 I don't know if GOVT messed up, in which case your point is valid, or Tennis Australia/Victoria government messed up, in which case the federal govt can say "not our fault".
But by now, and after all these delays and stuff, sure, I can see him playing. Some people do get breaks.

by Owendonovan The government asked for an extension until Wednesday but was denied. That would seem to favor Novax.

by MJ2004 Today's hearing will be available for public viewing here (10am Melbourne time): https://fcfcoa.gov.au/gfl/courtlists/vic/melbourne

I won't be watching since my head is likely to explode when Djokovic wins.

by JazzNU
Owendonovan wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:47 pm The government asked for an extension until Wednesday but was denied. That would seem to favor Novax.
The only thing it means is that the judge is taking the word of Tennis Australia that they need a decision by Tuesday for their tournament scheduling.

by ponchi101
MJ2004 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:16 pm ...

I won't be watching since my head is likely to explode when Djokovic wins.
Indeed. It will be sad.

by Deuce I don't see Djokovic winning this because the 'X factor' is the feeling of the Australian people.
The court knows full well that the Australian people don't want Djokovic in their country - and that if he is permitted into the country, and plays the Aussie Open, there could be mass protests.
And so I think they'll rule that Djokovic is out.

by meganfernandez Djokovic's lawyers are arguing that the law does not require Djokovic to provide evidence of meeting the vaccine or contraindication requirement - that he can just provide his word. !!!!!!

From Herald-Sun just now:

Djokovic’s lawyers are now arguing that the biosecurity rules for entry to Australia didn’t actually require the Serbian to provide evidence of his medical contraindication to vaccination.

Nick Wood SC says Djokovic only had to make a declaration of whether he was vaccinated against Covid, unvaccinated or had a medical contraindication. If the latter - which he did - he said rules state that the travelled “can provide evidence”, not that they must.

“That declaration was made that he had a medical contraindication,” Wood said.

“He was not required to provide evidence, even though as a matter of fact, he did.”

by dryrunguy This has probably been mentioned before, and I apologize if I am duplicating someone else's post, but...

Poetic justice would dictate that Rafa should win his 21st major in Melbourne in a few weeks. I would say the same for Roger if he were able to compete.

by ponchi101 Poetic justice would have been Novax coming down with C19, and having some, at least, uncomfortable symptoms so his sorry ass would learn the truth the hard way.

by meganfernandez my god if this is true...


by ponchi101 Ok, that is a very grave accusation to just float it out there in social media. If that is true, I gather we are no longer talking deportation, we are talking at least a misdemeanor?

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:42 am Ok, that is a very grave accusation to just float it out there in social media. If that is true, I gather we are no longer talking deportation, we are talking at least a misdemeanor?
Update: Rennae Stubbs said no way, he wasn't there.

Judge just ordered Aussie officials to bring Djokovic to his lawyers or somewhere else where he can watch the hearing (a place that doesn't require vaccination, I guess). So maybe judge earlier approved a release for him to play at Melbourne Park, which seems egregious to me, but what do I know.

Djokovic will get to leave detention to observe the hearing every day that it takes place. So far - and it's very early - the judge sounds pro-Djokovic.

by ti-amie


Karen Sweeney
@karenlsweeney

Of course, it's also entirely likely his solicitors have accepted the "medical contraindication" they're arguing also allows him to enter Australia.

by dmforever Looks like Nole is going to play.



Kevin

by Suliso I told you so... It was obvious to me when he got as far as a court. Public opinion is irrelevant here.

by Suliso And the reasoning was indeed a technicality. Government didn't provide him an extra hour to gather evidence (from where?)

by dmforever I"m going to sleep. This may have changed by the time I wake up. New pundits are saying that the government has too much at stake, and a different immigration branch of the government may cancel the visa for different reasons.

Kevin

by Deuce
Suliso wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:29 am I told you so... It was obvious to me when he got as far as a court. Public opinion is irrelevant here.
Suliso wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:18 am And the reasoning was indeed a technicality. Government didn't provide him an extra hour to gather evidence (from where?)
Common sense is also all too often irrelevant in court. As is truth.
The law prefers to side with irrelevant loopholes and technicalities, forever rewarding those who can exploit these elements. Right, wrong, true guilt or innocence really doesn't matter.
This is why 'the law' is so often referred to as being 'an ass'.

I hope the public boycott the Aussie Open. Sadly, though, the majority won't have the guts to do that.
As I said previously - this will be the first tennis tournament in history to be played with no balls.

Meanwhile, Kyrgios pulled out of his first round match with Fognini at Sydney right before the match. It seems that he tested positive.
Right on cue... :roll:

Sigh...

by meganfernandez Might not be over. Immigration minister could still cancel his visa. From Paul Sakkal, an Australian journalist who has been on the case: "ATAGI's Allen Cheng tells @theage prior infection never been valid O/S travel exemption."

Haven't read all the reports, but it sounds like the question before the court wasn't whether his medical exemption was valid. It was due process, and the judge chose to limit his scope to that question.

by Suliso
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:03 am Haven't read all the reports, but it sounds like the question before the court wasn't whether his medical exemption was valid. It was due process, and the judge chose to limit his scope to that question.
A typical thing for a court to do.

by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:03 am Haven't read all the reports, but it sounds like the question before the court wasn't whether his medical exemption was valid. It was due process, and the judge chose to limit his scope to that question.
A typical thing for a court to do.
Yes it’s common. Varies by judge. Some judges take more liberty to address underlying issues, too. At least in the States. I wish the judge had taken the time to examine the merits of his medical exemption while they were all there and had the documents, if that's why his visa was cancelled. That's the central question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Deuce 48 minutes.
That's what the court ruling was based upon - that Djokovic was denied an extra 48 minutes to gather evidence and contact others (namely Tennis Australia) to show that his exemption was legitimate.
It all comes down to 48 minutes - which common sense dictates would not have made any significant difference.

So I say give him those 48 minutes. Hell - give him 12 extra minutes to make it an even hour. If he can't prove in that amount of time that he is eligible to enter the country/state as per the official rules and guidelines, then he leaves the country immediately - period.

All of this gobbledygook is pure BS. It doesn't matter what Tennis Australia told Djokovic. It doesn't matter what the state of Victoria told Djokovic. If they made mistakes, they should be punished - but those mistakes DO NOT mean that Djokovic is eligible to enter the country.
The ONLY thing that matters is whether he qualifies for entry to the country based on the rules and guidelines for entry. This would take a 12 year old child less than 5 minutes to determine.
But with politicians, lawyers, and judges, it takes days, of course. And even after that, it's still not clear.
Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

by MJ2004 The cynic in me says this was a pre-planned circus made to absolve the government of the blame of accepting Djokovic into the country in the eyes of the Australian public.

by Deuce I've heard that Spartacus, and those who spawned him, are to speak publicly within minutes...

by the Moz What a crap decision to wake up to. I'm going back to bed...

by Owendonovan Personally, I find it more and more difficult to operate in a world where being part of the problem instead of being part of the solution is what is being celebrated, endorsed, and more and more encouraged. I'm not opposed to spectators showering Novax with trash when he steps on the court to play.

by Liamvalid
Deuce wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:59 pm I've heard that Spartacus, and those who spawned him, are to speak publicly within minutes...
Oh lord. If I was him I’d at least wait until I know for sure the immigration minister isn’t going to act further.

by Deuce I'm watching his family speak on BBC World now...
Apparently, Novak is a great guy... :lol:

by Deuce At the family's news conference, when a reporter asked them if it's true that Novak tested positive for COVID-19 on Dec. 16th, Novak's brother answered "Yes - this is legal public knowledge". His parents knew what was coming next - they mumbled a few things...
Of course, the next question from a reporter was "Is it true that Novak was out in public just the day after having tested positive for COVID-19?"
At that point, Novak's brother said "This press conference is adjourned" - and the family got up and left.

Novak's brother said that Novak was practicing in Rod Laver Arena.

They brought Novak's trophies - and even a bust of his head - to the press conference, and they were all displayed on the table in front of the family.
This is the Twilight Zone, after all...

by JazzNU The only reason this isn't surprising is because it was becoming clear that his celebrity was being taken into account. This wasn't a good legal case for Novax. He hasn't been forced to answer questions related to his questionable covid positive timeline, the judge not doing probing into that speaks volumes on how this was decided. Highly doubtful Average Joe with a similar case is granted access here, the court would've reprimanded the government on the due process, then probed into the validity of the violation at that time since he's not an Australian citizen and the house of cards would've come tumbling down. Or the judge would've overturned the due process decision granting the visa, and still remanded him back to the immigration hotel since the matter hasn't been fully decided by the authorities on the validity of the medical exemption. This decision is inconsistent with others that have been made there. This is special treatment, plain and simple.

And this highly public ordeal is going to open up the floodgates on the unvaxxed Aussies not being allowed to return or free movement, and the ones that have Russian vaccines not being able to return home. And Australia deserves the problems that come from this for the special treatment they gave to this Diva.

by the Moz
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:26 pm The only reason this isn't surprising is because it was becoming clear that his celebrity was being taken into account. This wasn't a good legal case for Novax. He hasn't been forced to answer questions related to his questionable covid positive timeline, the judge not doing probing into that speaks volumes on how this was decided. Highly doubtful Average Joe with a similar case is granted access here, the court would've reprimanded the government on the due process, then probed into the validity of the violation at that time since he's not an Australian citizen and the house of cards would've come tumbling down. Or the judge would've overturned the due process decision granting the visa, and still remanded him back to the immigration hotel since the matter hasn't been fully decided by the authorities on the validity of the medical exemption. This decision is inconsistent with others that have been made there. This is special treatment, plain and simple.

And this highly public ordeal is going to open up the floodgates on the unvaxxed Aussies not being allowed to return or free movement, and the ones that have Russian vaccines not being able to return home. And Australia deserves the problems that come from this for the special treatment they gave to this Diva.
In the judge's decision they said Novax was 'assured by Tennis Australia' that he was exempt and allowed to enter the country. Not sure what that has to do with the legalities of the case before you, but okay :roll: :roll: :roll:

by JazzNU

by JazzNU Nick Kyrgios tested positive for covid and had to pull out of the Sydney tournament. He's fully vaccinated and has been for a long time, unlike a certain someone, he's been a vocal advocate of vaccines.

by ponchi101 I liked the part when the judge asked "what else could this man (Novax) had done?"
Get vaccinated?
He still has time to get back in shape, and use the first two rounds to get in very good shape. #21 is juuuuuust there...

by JazzNU Jensen Brooksby and his coach tested positive ahead of their flight to Melbourne, so he's out of the Aussie Open.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:54 am
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:42 am Ok, that is a very grave accusation to just float it out there in social media. If that is true, I gather we are no longer talking deportation, we are talking at least a misdemeanor?
Update: Rennae Stubbs said no way, he wasn't there.

Judge just ordered Aussie officials to bring Djokovic to his lawyers or somewhere else where he can watch the hearing (a place that doesn't require vaccination, I guess). So maybe judge earlier approved a release for him to play at Melbourne Park, which seems egregious to me, but what do I know.

Djokovic will get to leave detention to observe the hearing every day that it takes place. So far - and it's very early - the judge sounds pro-Djokovic.

I know this is moot now that the decision was made, but wasn't the hearing livestreamed online? Is there no internet at the detention hotel?

by mmmm8 One of the other players that had this situation (probably wasn't only Voracova) should sue Tennis Australia for misleading them, if they were really told a recent positive test is sufficient for an exemption.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:07 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:54 am
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:42 am Ok, that is a very grave accusation to just float it out there in social media. If that is true, I gather we are no longer talking deportation, we are talking at least a misdemeanor?
Update: Rennae Stubbs said no way, he wasn't there.

Judge just ordered Aussie officials to bring Djokovic to his lawyers or somewhere else where he can watch the hearing (a place that doesn't require vaccination, I guess). So maybe judge earlier approved a release for him to play at Melbourne Park, which seems egregious to me, but what do I know.

Djokovic will get to leave detention to observe the hearing every day that it takes place. So far - and it's very early - the judge sounds pro-Djokovic.

I know this is moot now that the decision was made, but wasn't the hearing livestreamed online? Is there no internet at the detention hotel?
I think I read that the detention hotel does not have wifi, but I can't remember. The stream was overloaded and glitchy anyway.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:13 pm
I think I read that the detention hotel does not have wifi, but I can't remember. The stream was overloaded and glitchy anyway.
Wow, that would make the life of the medical refugees detained there even worse.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:09 pm One of the other players that had this situation (probably wasn't only Voracova) should sue Tennis Australia for misleading them, if they were really told a recent positive test is sufficient for an exemption.
it seems like a recent positive test IS sufficient, right? This point is still unclear -which is maddening, because it's one of two questions that actually matter: Is this a legal basis for an exemption, and if not, why in the world was he issued a visa and allowed to board a plane? If it is sufficient, did Djokovic's paperwork seem fishy to the ABF (even though it hadn't seemed fishy to the Home Department that issues his visa or the ABF staff that let him on the plane in Dubai)? If it's legal and his paperwork didn't spark suspicions, he should been allowed in, unless there's something else we don't know. Maybe that's not the reason they denied his visa after all. Maybe it was the "wrong visa" technicality.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:16 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:13 pm
I think I read that the detention hotel does not have wifi, but I can't remember. The stream was overloaded and glitchy anyway.
Wow, that would make the life of the medical refugees detained there even worse.
You'd think. But maybe life without social media is quite pleasant. :) I honestly can't remember but I think I read this right after he was detained and people were writing about the hotel.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:19 pm You'd think. But maybe life without social media is quite pleasant. :) I honestly can't remember but I think I read this right after he was detained and people were writing about the hotel.
Looked it up (internet access is not just social media, it's access to information and entertainment, access to communication with family and legal resources beyond phone calls). They have internet access, given this interview: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nova ... -rcna11433

But the government tried to take it away last year:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/0 ... u-s25.html

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:18 pm
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:09 pm One of the other players that had this situation (probably wasn't only Voracova) should sue Tennis Australia for misleading them, if they were really told a recent positive test is sufficient for an exemption.
it seems like a recent positive test IS sufficient, right? This point is still unclear -which is maddening, because it's one of two questions that actually matter: Is this a legal basis for an exemption, and if not, why in the world was he issued a visa and allowed to board a plane? If it is sufficient, did Djokovic's paperwork seem fishy to the ABF (even though it hadn't seemed fishy to the Home Department that issues his visa or the ABF staff that let him on the plane in Dubai)? If it's legal and his paperwork didn't spark suspicions, he should been allowed in, unless there's something else we don't know. Maybe that's not the reason they denied his visa after all. Maybe it was the "wrong visa" technicality.
A positive test is sufficient FOR AUSTRALIANS inside their borders. There were repeated clear messages from the health minister that just a recent positive was not the rule for foreigners coming in. This is why Tennis Australia was told that wasn't enough.

The visa isn't issued with the medical exemption. He got the visa in November. He got the medical exemption in the final days of December. I have no idea why this continues to be repeated when it's been crystal clear for days now that these are two separate processes.

by mmmm8 So, I definitely don't think he should be allowed to enter Australia and the cries of injustice from his family/Serbia are hilarious, but I'm starting to think most of this is on Tennis Australia and the Victorian government and Djokovic followed what they asked (unless the PCR results were faked which I think is probable).

He got interviewed for 6 hours in the middle of the night and was very polite and professional. Here's the transcript.

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/p ... he-ABF.pdf


The other thing in there is he says he tested positive on NOVEMBER 16 not December 16.

by ponchi101 Just as an example. I am flying to the USA on Jan 19th. United (the horror, the horror). So, I can upload my documents to prepare for the flight. I uploaded my passport and US Visa, but I still have to upload my C19 vax certificates, and the system will not let me do so UNTIL THE 18th, because I need to upload my vaccinations and my antigen test results with at most 24 hours before the flight.
My visa is fine. I am still pending if I cannot provide proof of vaccination and testing.
It seems Australia is the same, as JazzNu says.

by ti-amie



Someone will have to explain to me how this helps his image?

by ti-amie And here's the video of the "press conference" by his family.


by ti-amie

by JazzNU
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:15 pm So, I definitely don't think he should be allowed to enter Australia and the cries of injustice from his family/Serbia are hilarious, but I'm starting to think most of this is on Tennis Australia and the Victorian government and Djokovic followed what they asked (unless the PCR results were faked which I think is probable).

He got interviewed for 6 hours in the middle of the night and was very polite and professional. Here's the transcript.

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/p ... he-ABF.pdf


The other thing in there is he says he tested positive on NOVEMBER 16 not December 16.

While they may be what he said in that interview, that's not the case. That is around the time he got his Aussie visa, so maybe he was confusing the dates for that. It's December 16th for sure for the supposed positive covid test, that's what his lawyers put in the official court filings, which are widely available if you want to see them.

by mmmm8
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:33 pm
mmmm8 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:15 pm So, I definitely don't think he should be allowed to enter Australia and the cries of injustice from his family/Serbia are hilarious, but I'm starting to think most of this is on Tennis Australia and the Victorian government and Djokovic followed what they asked (unless the PCR results were faked which I think is probable).

He got interviewed for 6 hours in the middle of the night and was very polite and professional. Here's the transcript.

https://fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/p ... he-ABF.pdf


The other thing in there is he says he tested positive on NOVEMBER 16 not December 16.

While they may be what he said in that interview, that's not the case. That is around the time he got his Aussie visa, so maybe he was confusing the dates for that. It's December 16th for sure for the positive covid test, that's what his lawyers put in the official court filings, which are widely available if you want to see them.
Yeah, he probably misspoke, he says at another point that Dec 16 he tested positive, Dec 22 he tested negative

by Suliso Djokovic fans? Aren't they in this case synonymous with local Serbian immigrants?

by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:13 pm Djokovic fans? Aren't they in this case synonymous with local Serbian immigrants?
I believe we are going here on a bit of group theory. Being a Novax fan DOES not mean you are a Serbian immigrant, but being a Serbian immigrant means you are a Novax fan ;)

by JazzNU



by JazzNU



Ben Rothenberg
@BenRothenberg

(Folks are getting a mix of positive/negative results from this same QR code now, I don't know what to make of it beyond it being bizarre.)

by Deuce It's not bizarre - it's simply par for the completely ridiculous course.

Let's just erase all of this nonsense from our collective memories, recover, and re-start the tennis season at Roland Garros, please.
Without Novak.

by Owendonovan
ti-amie wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:27 pm



Someone will have to explain to me how this helps his image?
Good thing they're not in Florida where I believe you're legally able to plow through protesters in your car.

by Deuce
Owendonovan wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:50 am Good thing they're not in Florida where I believe you're legally able to plow through protesters in your car.
^ Yes - but only if the driver is unvaccinated.

by shmrck14 And the dominos continue to fall, the latest from Ben Rothenberg


by Owendonovan I don't understand why Novax's father is beating this drum about this having something to do with the size of Serbia.

by ponchi101
Owendonovan wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:23 am I don't understand why Novax's father is beating this drum about this having something to do with the size of Serbia.
It is has been a constant subject on his discourse. Novax is not loved "because he is from Serbia". He is not respected "because he is from Serbia, and we are a small country". He has made many statements along that line, forgetting the unfortunate events that Serbia committed in the 90's.
Cognitive dissonance at its best. He simply cannot see how Novax behavior and his own makes him so difficult to like, much less love.

by JazzNU
shmrck14 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:29 am And the dominos continue to fall, the latest from Ben Rothenberg


What an odd thing for him to lie about. Well known that he was in Spain to train prior to going to Australia, and something he's done many times before, it's one of his main training areas. He owns a home in Marbella now.

by Deuce
Owendonovan wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:23 am I don't understand why Novax's father is beating this drum about this having something to do with the size of Serbia.
It's a metaphor.
It's really about the size of something else.
:D

by JazzNU Being investigated now. Again, I don't know why he'd be dumb enough to lie here, but it certainly looks like he did. I don't get it.



by JazzNU This is a good roundup of all that has occurred for anyone interested.



by ponchi101
JazzNU wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:08 am Being investigated now. Again, I don't know why he'd be dumb enough to lie here, but it certainly looks like he did. I don't get it.
...
It is hard to understand, but that must be the M.O. of the entitled. You get away with a little here, then you try a bit more, then on and on. Pretty soon, you believe you can get away with everything and anything.
Just deport him under discretionary powers and put an end to this farce. He is simply not vaccinated, no need to go through all these technicalities. Which I know has got to be a repeat of about 10 posts in this topic, but this is really a simple case. Had this been Djordje (however you spell that) he would have not been allowed to board the plane.

by JazzNU FWIW, there's mention of the 3 year ban at the end of that video, which has come up before. There have been many Aussies in the Twitter comments about it. They've said that's overblown, that it's not automatic, and there's discretion in when it's used, and clearly that wouldn't happen with Novak.

by meganfernandez Best summary of events




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by Deuce

by shmrck14 I'd put money down that the test is a scam, he didn't have a recent infection and so what is the testing protocol for him at AO as unvaccinated? With the Omicron running wild and all the breakthrough infections, there's no way he doesn't catch it while there and will be removed pre or during the tournament. And all the drama will have been for nothing.

The question is, how frequently will he be tested?

by MJ2004
shmrck14 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm I'd put money down that the test is a scam, he didn't have a recent infection and so what is the testing protocol for him at AO as unvaccinated? With the Omicron running wild and all the breakthrough infections, there's no way he doesn't catch it while there and will be removed pre or during the tournament. And all the drama will have been for nothing.

The question is, how frequently will he be tested?
With his luck, he'll be asymptomatic, play on, and will succeed in infecting half the men's draw.

by Deuce Growing jealous of all the attention Novak is getting, Bernie (once again) decided to divert some of the attention his way...

Is loss of hair colour a symptom of COVID-19?

"I will test positive" Tomic says...

.

by FEBravo
shmrck14 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:38 pm I'd put money down that the test is a scam, he didn't have a recent infection
Biggest question for me on this point is what was his plan to play at the AO if he didn't just happen to catch that infection, after the deadline for the exemption? I personally think that's quite damning. And if it's a genuine test, then he's clearly an even bigger asshole for going out there infecting others. So he really comes out pretty bad either way.

by ti-amie Google translation of an article from the German magazine Der Spiegel.

Were the Results of a Positive PCR Test Manipulated?
Tennis star Novak Djoković claims that he tested positive for the coronavirus on Dec. 16. But the digital test result suggests otherwise. This and a suspected false statement could create new visa problems for the athlete in Australia.
By Max Hoppenstedt und Jörn Meyn
11.01.2022, 18.37 Uhr

A coronavirus test with the number 7371999 was actually supposed to be Novak Djoković's ticket for unproblematic entry into Australia. That positive test is the most important argument the unvaccinated tennis player has presented for why he should be allowed into the country, despite its strict entry regulations, to play in the Australian Open, which begins on Jan. 17. The PCR test was performed at 1:05 p.m. on Dec. 16, and seven hours later, the positive result was returned.

That, at least, is the story told by documentation from the Institute of Public Health of Serbia, which Djoković's lawyers later presented in court. But a closer look at the allegedly positive PCR test, especially its digital version, raises questions.

The digital data suggests that the test results aren’t from Dec. 16 at all. In the digital results, there is a timestamp for 2:21 p.m. Serbian time on Dec. 26. Such timestamps are normally produced automatically by corona test systems, marking when individual tests are entered into the relevant database. That usually happens just a few minutes after the test result becomes available.

Djoković's lawyers also presented a second, negative test as part of the tennis star’s immigration proceedings. That test was apparently meant to prove that Djoković had since recovered from his COVID-19 illness. According to the documentation presented, it is from the afternoon of Dec. 22 – and the timing of that test is confirmed by the digital timestamp.

The test results also include QR codes, and when DER SPIEGEL scanned the QR code for the test from Dec. 16, things got strange. At 1:19 p.m. on Monday (CET), the result from the scan was "test result Negative." Such a result would have destroyed Djoković's case for being allowed into the country. About an hour later, though, at 2:33 p.m. on Monday, a second scan of the QR code returned a different result: "Test result Positive."


Image

Screenshot taken on Monday at 2:33 p.m. (CET)

Image

There are also additional indications that cast doubt on whether Djoković really tested positive on Dec. 16.

The Serbian testing system, as is normal for such programs, assigns an identification number to every test. The number for Djoković's positive test, allegedly taken on Dec. 16, is 7371999. But for the negative test taken on Dec. 22, the identification number is 50,000 spots lower.

"We could reconstruct that these ID numbers are assigned consecutively," say IT experts with zerforschung, a German group of digital sleuths that has examined IT security loopholes in test systems on several occasions. The group has also taken a closer look at the process relating to Djoković's digital test certificates.

Their findings indicate that, according to the ID numbers attached to the Serbian test results, the negative test was performed prior to the positive test and entered into the database. Not the other way around, as Djoković's lawyers claim and as the Serbian health documents would seem to indicate at first glance.

50,000 Tests in Between

This explanation makes even more sense when one considers that 50,000 tests were performed between Dec. 22 and Dec. 26 according to Serbian health data. That is precisely the difference between the two identification numbers of Djoković's two tests. According to official Serbian statistics, the country has now performed a total of over 7.4 million tests.

"Based on these pieces of evidence, the most plausible explanation is that the positive test result was added to the official Serbian database on the 26th of December, and not on the 16th," say the experts from zerforschung.

Does that mean, then, that Djoković's positive PCR test was taken much later than he claims? Was the test further manipulated? And how can it be explained that the digital version of the test result indicated for a short period of time on Monday, Jan. 10 that the result was negative?

All such questions could only be answered either by Djoković himself or by Serbian officials. Neither, however, have yet responded to queries sent by DER SPIEGEL.

But the riddle over the allegedly positive PCR test from Dec. 16, the central piece of evidence in the case, isn’t the only inconsistency. Djoković is also facing suspicions of providing false information. If the suspicions are confirmed, legal consequences could follow and the best tennis player in the world could see his visa withdrawn ahead of the tournament start next Monday.

The question that Australian immigration officials have been trying to clear up since last Tuesday is this: Did Djoković lie when filling out his Australia Travel Declaration in order to be allowed into the country? And if so, can he be deported as a result?

Among the numerous court documents made public in Australia on Monday is a health declaration from Jan. 1, which Djoković, like everyone arriving in Australia, was required to fill out ahead of his flight. One of the questions asked on that form is: "Have you traveled or will you travel in the 14 days prior to your flight to Australia?" The form includes a clear note indicating that: "Giving false or misleading information is a serious offence. You may also be liable to a civil penalty for giving false or misleading information."


Did Djoković Lie on Arrival?

In an interview with border officials after landing in Melbourne last Thursday, Djoković said the document had been filled out by his agent. That, though, changes nothing about the facts of the case. The 34-year-old answered the question by checking the "no" box.

That answer has raised a number of questions given that numerous postings on social media indicate that Djoković was in Belgrade over Christmas. A Portuguese journalist posted a photo on Dec. 25 of Djoković together with the Serbian handball player Patar Djordjic – a picture that was allegedly taken in Belgrade.

According to Britain's Guardian newspaper, Djoković was also shown in an Instagram video from Dec. 26 playing tennis on the streets of Belgrade. The video has since been deleted.

In a sworn deposition for the court in Melbourne, Djoković wrote that he traveled "from Spain to Melbourne via Dubai" on Jan. 4. Numerous media outlets had also reported that Djoković had been training for the Australian open in the southern Spanish city of Marbella.

If he really was in Belgrade over Christmas and flew to Spain before then flying onward to Melbourne on Jan. 4, then he and his legal representative lied on the Australia Travel Declaration.


In response to questions as to whether the declaration could provide additional reasons for the annulation of Djoković’s visa, a spokesman for Immigration Minister Alex Hawke said on Tuesday that the minister was still considering whether to make use of the powers he has at his disposal. A decision is expected on Wednesday.

That, though, may not be the end of it. Djoković would be able to appeal should he be asked to leave the country.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/wo ... 27d4795e97

by mmmm8 The previous speculation above from Ben was off - he confused the positive ("Dec 16") and negative ("Dec 22") tests when checking the QR code. But this is more legitimate. Either way, he lied about not traveling in 14 days prior.

by ponchi101 To the tune of The Eagles "Lying eyes", except that in parts of the USA it usually sounds "Lying Ass".
Just kick him out, ferchrissake.

ballboys.jpg
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by MJ2004
ballboys.jpg

by mmmm8 There are various memes going around that he's now the GOAT because he's won on a court that Federer and Nadal haven't - the Federal Circuit Court of Australia :)

by ponchi101 :clap: :clap: :clap: to both of your posts!

by Woody
JazzNU wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:23 am FWIW, there's mention of the 3 year ban at the end of that video, which has come up before. There have been many Aussies in the Twitter comments about it. They've said that's overblown, that it's not automatic, and there's discretion in when it's used, and clearly that wouldn't happen with Novak.
I was one who said that wouldn't happen, based on Novak making an honest mistake, thinking he had a valid exemption. I'm coming around though. If he lied about travel and ESPECIALLY if it turns out his test results have been monkeyed with, I would not be the slightest bit surprised if he gets a 3-year ban. And it would be well deserved.

If he actually faked a test result, I would think the ATP would also have to step in and take some serious action. It reflects very badly on the sport.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by Deuce As soon as the news came out that he said he tested positive on Dec. 16th, I literally laughed.
I figured there were 2 possibilities:
50% chance that the documentation of the test was manipulated - i.e. a fake result or the entire test was a fabrication...
49% chance that he deliberately contracted COVID-19 at just the right time to be able to use it as an excuse to get into Australia (or so he thought)...
1% chance that the test and the result were legitimate and he did not contract COVID-19 deliberately.

by ti-amie
Deuce wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:24 am As soon as the news came out that he said he tested positive on Dec. 16th, I literally laughed.
I figured there were 2 possibilities:
50% chance that the documentation of the test was manipulated - i.e. a fake result or the entire test was a fabrication...
49% chance that he deliberately contracted COVID-19 at just the right time to be able to use it as an excuse to get into Australia (or so he thought)...
1% chance that the test and the result were legitimate and he did not contract COVID-19 deliberately.
Right now it looks as if you were right to doubt. We'll see.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by Liamvalid BBC reporting Novak has revealed that he didn’t know that he was positive on the 17th, but has admitted that he knew that he was positive on the 18th when he went out and gave an interview for L’Equipe “I accept I should have re-scheduled”.

He also admitted that his agent filled in the visa form incorrectly:

"My agent sincerely apologises for the administrative mistake in ticking the incorrect box," he wrote. "This was a human error and certainly not deliberate."
"My team has provided additional information to the Australian government to clarify this matter,"

by dmforever STATEMENT BY NOVAK DJOKOVIC
12 January 2022
I want to address the continuing misinformation about my activities and attendance at events in December in the lead up to my positive PCR COVID test result.
This is misinformation which needs to be corrected, particularly in the interest of alleviating broader concern in the community about my presence in Australia, and to address matters which are very hurtful and concerning to my family.
I want to emphasise that I have tried very hard to ensure the safety of everyone and my compliance with testing obligations.
I attended a basketball game in Belgrade on 14 December after which it was reported that a number of people tested positive with COVID 19. Despite having no COVID symptoms, I took a rapid antigen test on 16 December which was negative, and out of an abundance of caution, also took an official and approved PCR test on that same day. The next day I attended a tennis event in Belgrade to present awards to children and took a rapid antigen test before going to the event, and it was negative. I was asymptomatic and felt good, and I had not received the notification of a positive PCR test result until after that event.
The next day, on 18 December I was at my tennis centre in Belgrade to fulfill a long-standing commitment for a L’Equipe interview and photoshoot. I cancelled all other events except for the L’Equipe interview.
I felt obliged to go ahead and conduct the L’Equipe interview as I didn’t want to let the journalist down, but did ensure I socially distanced and wore a mask except when my photograph was being taken.
While I went home after the interview to isolate for the required period, on reflection, this was an error of judgement and I accept that I should have rescheduled this commitment.
On the issue of my travel declaration, this was submitted by my support team on my behalf – as I told immigration officials on my arrival - and my agent sincerely apologises for the administrative mistake in ticking the incorrect box about my previous travel before coming to Australia. This was a human error and certainly not deliberate. We are living in challenging times in a global pandemic and sometimes these mistakes can occur. Today, my team has provided additional information to the Australian Government to clarify this matter.
While I felt it was important to address and clarify misinformation I will not be making any further comment out of utmost respect for the Australian Government and their authorities and the current process.
It is always an honour and a privilege to play in the Australian Open. The Australian Open is much-loved by players, fans and the community, not just in Victoria and in Australia, but around the globe, and I just want to have the opportunity to compete against the best players in the world and perform before one of the best crowds in the world.


Kevin

by Deuce STATEMENT BY DEUCE
12 January 2022

I don't believe Novak Djokovic.

.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:57 pm The previous speculation above from Ben was off - he confused the positive ("Dec 16") and negative ("Dec 22") tests when checking the QR code. But this is more legitimate. Either way, he lied about not traveling in 14 days prior.
Yeah, and I don't think "my agent filled out my paperwork" is an excuse. Even if it was an honest mistake, you're responsible for your own immigration paperwork. It's you who's asking to enter the country, not your agent.

The test date thing is weird. Some are saying the date and ID number generate when you download the record, so of course if he downloaded it later, it would have a different date and ID number than the original ones.

Perhaps a journalist shouldn't publish speculation. Finish reporting, then publish. If you want input for assistance, ask for it without the speculation.

by atlpam
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:15 pm
Yeah, and I don't think "my agent filled out my paperwork" is an excuse. Even if it was an honest mistake, you're responsible for your own immigration paperwork. It's you who's asking to enter the country, not your agent.
He should ask how well that worked for Sharapova when her agent didn't tell her about meldonium being added to the banned list.

by JazzNU
Woody wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:41 am
I was one who said that wouldn't happen, based on Novak making an honest mistake, thinking he had a valid exemption. I'm coming around though. If he lied about travel and ESPECIALLY if it turns out his test results have been monkeyed with, I would not be the slightest bit surprised if he gets a 3-year ban. And it would be well deserved.

If he actually faked a test result, I would think the ATP would also have to step in and take some serious action. It reflects very badly on the sport.
I have not seen the guidelines myself, but I've seen it said on Tennis Twitter many times now that the ATP has a 3-year suspension rule tied with a falsified test.

I still think it's highly unlikely he'll get the 3 year ban to Australia, but given the mounting liability he's exposed himself to and the public nature of this nonsense, I could see them giving him a light ban. Of the 6-9 month variety, something that will be a slap on the wrist and won't be a true punishment for him.

Tennis Twitter is trying to keep track of Djokovic's current civil and criminal liability due to all his damn lies - So far it would appear he has exposed himself to:

Now, of course this man isn't seeing the inside of a jail cell, but it does highlight the recklessness of his actions. And the Serbian law for breaking self-isolation has been enforced, someone posted an article about a man sentenced to 3 years, so that's not just a law on the books for them.

by JazzNU

by JazzNU

by JazzNU

by JazzNU ^^ Not sure about others, but it's been confirmed by L'Equipe that the reporter at that interviewed him and the team that did the photoshoot on the Dec. 18th learned of Djokovic's covid positive test when the story broke in Australia in recent days.

by ponchi101
atlpam wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:24 pm ...

He should ask how well that worked for Sharapova when her agent didn't tell her about meldonium being added to the banned list.
:notworthy:

---0---
In the meantime, because this world is so weird that this man has become the focus of everything, Howard Stern, one of the most brilliant man in America, came up with, what to me, sums up perfectly Novax' (and other idiots) claim that vaccination is a personal decision:
"Saying “getting vaccinated is a private decision” is “like saying smoking is a private decision,” said Stern. “Well, that’s true. But don’t smoke in my face, f*****. What a dummy. Just a big dumb tennis player.”

by dryrunguy Just to be sure, I looked it up.

Misinformation: False or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.

by JazzNU Priceless. Hot mike moment that is surely speaking for most people.



by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm
In the meantime, because this world is so weird that this man has become the focus of everything, Howard Stern, one of the most brilliant man in America, came up with, what to me, sums up perfectly Novax' (and other idiots) claim that vaccination is a personal decision:
"Saying “getting vaccinated is a private decision” is “like saying smoking is a private decision,” said Stern. “Well, that’s true. But don’t smoke in my face, f*****. What a dummy. Just a big dumb tennis player.”
Strong disagree on "one of the most brilliant men in America." Whew! Glossing over a lot by saying that. But this is the audio from Howard Stern. A lot of curses so expand if you want to listen.

► Show Spoiler

by ti-amie I wouldn't classify Stern as one of the most brilliant men in America but a broken clock is right twice a day. There's nowhere to hide now for either Novax or the ATP.

A long standing member of TennisTwitter now calls him "Spartacus of Nazareth".

by Woody Apparently this is a well-respected journalist...


by ti-amie
Woody wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:20 pm Apparently this is a well-respected journalist...



If that happens the ATP will have to do something.

by ti-amie Did we post this?
Jan 10 2022
ATP Staff

ATP issues a statement following Melbourne court hearing

The ATP fully respects the sacrifices the people of Australia have made since the onset of COVID-19 and the stringent immigration policies that have been put in place. Complications in recent days related to player entry into Australia have however highlighted the need for clearer understanding, communication and application of the rules.

In travelling to Melbourne, it’s clear Novak Djokovic believed he had been granted a necessary medical exemption in order to comply with entry regulations. The series of events leading to Monday’s court hearing have been damaging on all fronts, including for Novak's well-being and preparation for the Australian Open. Player medical exemption requests are made independently of ATP, however we have been in constant contact with Tennis Australia to seek clarity throughout this process. We welcome the outcome of Monday’s hearing and look forward to an exciting few weeks of tennis ahead.

More broadly, ATP continues to strongly recommend vaccination for all players on the ATP Tour, which we believe is essential for our sport to navigate the pandemic. This is based on scientific evidence supporting the health benefits provided and to comply with global travel regulations, which we anticipate will become stricter over time. We are encouraged that 97 per cent of the Top 100 players are vaccinated leading into this year’s Australian Open.

by JazzNU And I forgot to mention it before, but if you're not on social media. I'm not saying people were loving Novak thru all of this outside of his seriously obnoxious diehards, they were not, they were highly critical and angry with him. But the maskless photo taken with the kids absolutely turned the tides against him in particular. People are DONE with him for that one. And him now claiming to have not known that he was positive at that point has done little to appease those upset with him about it, just about everyone has said they think he's lying but even so it remains reckless to know you were around close contact, got tested and were awaiting the results and still put those children at risk, especially maskless. Absolutely done with him after that part, even if they were willing to forgive the rest, the kids are proving to be a major stumbling block in all of this.

by MJ2004 His team clearly never expected the test date to be made public. Or even that he had a test, since medical exemption data is usually kept confidential and would have remained that way except for the visa kerfuffle.

If they were smart, they would have kept him in isolation for ten days after the supposed test. Or maybe they even came up with the date retroactively, since nobody with any sense actually believes there was a positive test.

And yes, the picture with the kids is cringeworthy and has put him between a rock (false test=lying and suspension-worthy behavior) and a hard place (positive test=irresponsible, reckless, and criminal behavior).

Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 2.42.22 PM.png
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by MJ2004 I came across this on Twitter. I would normally agree, except for once I think it has actually become as big a scandal.
Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 2.42.22 PM.png

by Liamvalid
MJ2004 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:44 pm I came across this on Twitter. I would normally agree, except for once I think it has actually become as big a scandal.

Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 2.42.22 PM.png
I’m not sure about elsewhere, but here in the Uk it’s massive. Even Murray winning Wimbledon didn’t get as much BBC news time as this Djokovic story is getting. It’s great for me because I can finally talk about tennis in the office and my colleagues are actually interested!

by ti-amie
Liamvalid wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:01 pm
MJ2004 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:44 pm I came across this on Twitter. I would normally agree, except for once I think it has actually become as big a scandal.

Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 2.42.22 PM.png
I’m not sure about elsewhere, but here in the Uk it’s massive. Even Murray winning Wimbledon didn’t get as much BBC news time as this Djokovic story is getting. It’s great for me because I can finally talk about tennis in the office and my colleagues are actually interested!
I even mentioned it at the hair salon and for once there were no eyes rolled. Most of the women there know Serena and Venus, maybe Cori and Naomi and that's it when it comes to tennis. Like Liam said they actually listened.

by JazzNU On Tennis Twitter, I saw the name Novax Djerkovic and I have to say, I'm seriously disappointed in this community (myself included) for not coining that name first. We need to do better, it was sitting right there the entire time.

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:36 pm ^^ Not sure about others, but it's been confirmed by L'Equipe that the reporter at that interviewed him and the team that did the photoshoot on the Dec. 18th learned of Djokovic's covid positive test when the story broke in Australia in recent days.



Image

by ponchi101
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:07 pm On Tennis Twitter, I saw the name Novax Djerkovic and I have to say, I'm seriously disappointed in this community (myself included) for not coining that name first. We need to do better, it was sitting right there the entire time.
Ok, no, no, no! I will not accept anybody denying our brilliance when it comes to cynicism and being witty! ;) We coined NOVAX way before anybody else, and we (and arrogance forces me to say I) coined "Novax Djocovid" last week! ;)
You are stepping on very sensitive land mines, lady!!!
(Novax Djerkovic is pretty good too, but I will stick with my crowd :) )

by ponchi101 The idiot in me still is puzzled by the simplest of facts: he is NOT vaccinated. Australians need to be vaccinated, visitors more so.
All this circus, legal proceedings and the such boil down to that: he is not vaccinated, and therefore, out you go, dude. You are not in compliance.

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:40 pm The idiot in me still is puzzled by the simplest of facts: he is NOT vaccinated. Australians need to be vaccinated, visitors more so.
All this circus, legal proceedings and the such boil down to that: he is not vaccinated, and therefore, out you go, dude. You are not in compliance.
Ben has been posting this every couple of days. I am also very confused why he didn't know the better course of action in all of this is to either get vaccinnated, or keep his butt at home.



by ti-amie
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:40 pm The idiot in me still is puzzled by the simplest of facts: he is NOT vaccinated. Australians need to be vaccinated, visitors more so.
All this circus, legal proceedings and the such boil down to that: he is not vaccinated, and therefore, out you go, dude. You are not in compliance.
It got complicated because Tiley gave him a waiver to play, a waiver that was based on what now looks to be a fictitious positive test sometime in December. If Tiley hadn't given that waiver would he have dared go to Australia? At the end of the day Tiley should face some repurcussions for his role in this fiasco.

Yesterday it was the German's publishing their version of what happened. Today it's the French. And the Daily Fail is also saying he's getting the boot.

Australian government prepares case to DEPORT Novak Djokovic as investigation hones in on 'inconsistencies' in his statement - amid concern letting him stay sets a 'dangerous precedent'
Novak Djokovic may be deported despite winning Federal Circuit Court case
Australian Immigration minister will make a decision on the matter Thursday
Inconsistencies have arisen in the world no. 1 tennis star's account of events
By LEVI PARSONS FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA

PUBLISHED: 02:06 EST, 12 January 2022 | UPDATED: 09:24 EST, 12 January 2022

The Australian Federal Government is tonight still preparing paperwork to try and boot Novak Djokovic out of the country, with sources warning letting him stay would set a 'dangerous precedent'.

It is understood the government is willing to receive harsh backlash internationally over the issue in order to maintain its 'tough on Covid' border stance.

The world no. 1 was originally set to be given the boot after being detained at an immigration hotel over the weekend but won a battle in the Federal Circuit Court to remain in the country and chase his 10th Australian Open title.

Immigration Minister Alex Hawke is expected to hand down his decision on Thursday with bureaucrats from the Department of Home Affairs' investigating inconsistencies in the tennis star's story.

Djokovic, who is a vaccine sceptic, attempted to address a number of concerns about the situation in a lengthy statement posted to his Instagram page on Wednesday but several questions still remain.

Of most concern to Australian officials is Djokovic's admitted breach of Serbia's isolation rules after learning he had tested positive and the false information he provided on his travel entry form which he later blamed on his agent.

Lingering mystery also surrounds when the 20-time Grand Slam winner actually learned he had Covid with a German publication sowing doubt on his PCR test after QR Code information was uncovered that 'did not match up'.

The 34-year-old disclosed he had attended an event with children while he was Covid positive, but claimed he didn't know he was infected until afterwards.

He had taken a PCR test the day before and was awaiting results, but said he tested negative to a rapid antigen test so went along.

Djokovic has been the subject of intense scrutiny for presenting awards to kids at an event in Belgrade on December 17 - a day after recording a positive result for the virus.

The Serbian maintained he was not aware of his diagnosis until shortly after but did admit to conducting an in-person interview with French newspaper L'Équipe knowing he was positive.

He called his decision to go ahead with the Q and A an 'error in judgement' but said he maintained social distancing and wore a mask.

Under Serbian law, where anyone Covid positive must isolate for 14 days, such a breach can carry a maximum sentence of three years behind bars.

The tennis ace is also in hot water for various inconsistencies on his Australian declaration form.

Djokovic falsely said he had not travelled to any other countries in the 14 days prior to arriving in Melbourne, but it was later revealed he had been in Spain.

'This was submitted by my support team on my behalf - as I told immigration officials on my arrival,' he said.

'My agent sincerely apologises for the administrative mistake in ticking the incorrect box about my previous travel before coming to Australia.'

Djokovic said the mistake was a 'human error' and in a pandemic 'sometimes these mistakes can occur'.

'Today, my team has provided additional information to the Australian government to clarify this matter,' he said.

That 'additional information' is currently being assessed by Immigration Minister Hawke who is weighing up whether to us his discretional powers to deport the tennis great.

Ministers and advisors within the Morrison government are growing apprehensive about the diplomatic fallout internationally.

But at the same time many feel failing to act would will bring embarrassment on the homefront and undermine Australia's strong stance on borders as Covid cases continue to spiral.

Either way, policymakers do not want the scandal to drag on any further and have urged on Mr Hawke to make the call as soon as possible.

The Immigration Minister however has quietly rejected their demands and is in the process of examining all of Djokovic's submissions.

'Mr Djokovic's lawyers have recently provided lengthy further submissions and supporting documentation said to be relevant to the possible cancellation of his visa,' a spokesman for Minister Hawke said.

'Naturally, this will affect the timeframe for a decision.'

The government has doubts about when Djokovic actually became infected after the German publication Der Spiegel uncovered timestamps that allegedly do not match.

Unvaccinated travellers are banned from Australia unless they have a valid exemption.

Djokovic wrote in a sworn court affidavit he was 'tested and diagnosed' for Covid on December 16 - contradicting his claim he was told of his positive result on the 17th after attending the event with children in Serbia.

The penalty for providing false information to to the Federal Circuit Court under the Crimes Act can carry a maximum jail sentence of five years.

But the inconsistencies don't stop there.

Djokovic was told he could fly into Melbourne on the basis he tested positive to the virus in Serbia on December 16 and then negative six days later.

But Der Spiegel claims when its reporter entered the code for his December 16 test into the official Serbian health database at 1.19pm on Monday, the result came back negative.

An hour later at 2.33pm, the scan returned a positive result - in what could simply be a quirk of the system.

A negative result would have invalidated Djokovic's claim to enter Australia on a temporary working visa for the tournament.

His positive test result has also been called into question by a discrepancy in the identification numbers used for every test.

The German investigation found Djokovic's December 16 test result had the ID number 7371999, but his negative result on December 22 was 7320919 - 50,000 spaces lower.

Researchers claimed the mismatched identification numbers showed Djokovic may actually have tested negative on December 16 and then positive six days later.

Such a result would have also made the Serbian ineligible to enter Australia on the grounds he had recently contracted and recovered from the virus on December 22, as claimed on official documentation.

Daily Mail Australia is not suggesting Djokovic or his team were involved in any wrongdoing, simply that there are questions surrounding the administrative error.


The Australian Open begins on January 17.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... k-out.html

by ponchi101 Meanwhile, in this godforsaken little Banana republic, the Colombian tennis federation just sent me a mass mail telling everybody that in order to play in ANY tournament, regardless of category, you must show your vaccination card, BOOSTERS included. No exceptions.
It is not that hard, Australia...

by Woody
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:34 pm
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:07 pm On Tennis Twitter, I saw the name Novax Djerkovic and I have to say, I'm seriously disappointed in this community (myself included) for not coining that name first. We need to do better, it was sitting right there the entire time.
Ok, no, no, no! I will not accept anybody denying our brilliance when it comes to cynicism and being witty! ;) We coined NOVAX way before anybody else, and we (and arrogance forces me to say I) coined "Novax Djocovid" last week! ;)
You are stepping on very sensitive land mines, lady!!!
(Novax Djerkovic is pretty good too, but I will stick with my crowd :) )
Oh, Ponchi... You missed my Twitter account from 2020... I forget why I added the extra x.

https://twitter.com/NovaxxDjoCovid

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:40 pm The idiot in me still is puzzled by the simplest of facts: he is NOT vaccinated. Australians need to be vaccinated, visitors more so.
All this circus, legal proceedings and the such boil down to that: he is not vaccinated, and therefore, out you go, dude. You are not in compliance.
There are medical exemptions - for citizens for sure, and apparently for visitors. They are narrow, but recent COVID is an exemption for citizens. Unclear whether it is for foreigners. It must be because apparently that's why Djokovic earned an exemption. (And in that case, why was Voracova's visa cancelled? I know she chose not to fight it, but why was it cancelled in the first place?) If it's a legal reason for an exemption for foreigners, then Djokovic doesn't qualify. I agree that this is simple, and I don't know if the Australian government knows which way it is or if there is internal confusion about it. (How??) Early reporting said the feds told TA isn't not a basis for a medical exemption for players but journalists sort of dropped that point and quickly moved on to the court case and now the legitimacy of Novak's test and his fail to isolate.

by MJ2004
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 pm Early reporting said the feds told TA isn't not a basis for a medical exemption for players but journalists sort of dropped that point and quickly moved on to the court case and now the legitimacy of Novak's test and his fail to isolate.
It seems the judge was confused about this point as well? I was confused as to why that wasn't a bigger point in the hearing.

by ponchi101
Woody wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:10 pm ...

Oh, Ponchi... You missed my Twitter account from 2020... I forget why I added the extra x.

https://twitter.com/NovaxxDjoCovid
Case closed. NO ONE beats TAT2.0! No one :tatrocks:

by meganfernandez
MJ2004 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:25 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 pm Early reporting said the feds told TA isn't not a basis for a medical exemption for players but journalists sort of dropped that point and quickly moved on to the court case and now the legitimacy of Novak's test and his fail to isolate.
It seems the judge was confused about this point as well? I was confused as to why that wasn't a bigger point in the hearing.
Well, apparently that wasn't the issue presented to the court. Sometimes a judge will stick to the issue presented and sometimes a judge will expand the scope and evaluate related or underlying issues, too. It appears this judge did not extend his scope to examining the merits of the exemption. Only the due process part that was raised. I wish the judge had gone farther and said, "While we're here, let's take the time to see if the due-process violation even mattered. Let's see the documents submitted for a medical exemption and compare them to the exemption requirements, visa requirements, and entry requirements." But he didn't. He decided it wasn't his job.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 pm
There are medical exemptions - for citizens for sure, and apparently for visitors. They are narrow, but recent COVID is an exemption for citizens. Unclear whether it is for foreigners.
It's not unclear. Tennis Australia and Craig Tiley not liking the answer they received doesn't make it unclear.

by Owendonovan What prompted him to get "tested" on Dec. 16? Was he identified as a contact through someone? If so, who is that someone and where's their positive test? I'm hung up on what was he going to do had he not "tested positive" to get into Australia?

by JazzNU
Owendonovan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:31 am What prompted him to get "tested" on Dec. 16? Was he identified as a contact through someone? If so, who is that someone and where's their positive test? I'm hung up on what was he going to do had he not "tested positive" to get into Australia?
The basketball game that he attended (maskless) had covid positive people and they're saying that prompted him to get tested. What was the plan otherwise? Inquiring minds want to know, but some complicated lie I assume, he seems to be specializing in those at the moment.

by JazzNU

by ti-amie

by Woody AO draw has just been postponed with no explanation given and no new schedule announced. I would infer that they are anticipating Novak's withdrawal.

by ti-amie
Woody wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:45 am AO draw has just been postponed with no explanation given and no new schedule announced. I would infer that they are anticipating Novak's withdrawal.
Woody updates are in the Aus Open tournament thread. :)

Tl;dr Chaos

by Deuce
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:46 pm
MJ2004 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:25 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:20 pm Early reporting said the feds told TA isn't not a basis for a medical exemption for players but journalists sort of dropped that point and quickly moved on to the court case and now the legitimacy of Novak's test and his fail to isolate.
It seems the judge was confused about this point as well? I was confused as to why that wasn't a bigger point in the hearing.
Well, apparently that wasn't the issue presented to the court. Sometimes a judge will stick to the issue presented and sometimes a judge will expand the scope and evaluate related or underlying issues, too. It appears this judge did not extend his scope to examining the merits of the exemption. Only the due process part that was raised. I wish the judge had gone farther and said, "While we're here, let's take the time to see if the due-process violation even mattered. Let's see the documents submitted for a medical exemption and compare them to the exemption requirements, visa requirements, and entry requirements." But he didn't. He decided it wasn't his job.
Indeed - as I said earlier, the rules for entry to Australia by non-citizens are clearly printed somewhere - and, using that as the base measurement, it would take a 12 year old child less than 5 minutes to determine if Djokovic (or anyone else) qualifies for entry. It's black and white.

The reason it's taking as long as it is is twofold: A) because several parties seem to have either been thoroughly incompetent in their comprehension of what is required, and/or they have lied outright in order to get what they want (Djokovic, Tennis Australia, Craig Tiley, Melbourne state government), and B) because whenever politicians and/or lawyers become involved, their perpetual self-serving manipulations and twisting of facts and truths takes a while to sort out.

by Deuce Martina seems confused...

"Let Him Play", Martina Says...

"Go Home", Martina Tells Djokovic...

.

by meganfernandez As much as I believe he probably didn't deserve his visa, I think Australia has missed the window to kick him out. They should have determined long ago whether he's in the country legally or not. Like when they cancelled his visa. Certainly should not have taken them more than a day after the hearing to weigh any addition evidence presented at the court hearing.

I guess Paul Sakkal didn't have good sources inside the govt telling him the minister was going to revoke the visa. It appears he was misled and/or didn't exercise proper judgment with his sources.

by ponchi101 Well, let's this be a reminder to all the world, as if it was needed, that there is a reason why people want to be rich and powerful. The rules do not apply to you.
Now it is just a matter of seeing how will the 50% capacity Aussie crowd received him.

by Deuce If there was any doubt that we're currently right in the centre of the Twilight Zone, this is absolute and undeniable proof...

Tsitsipas is making... sense... :shock:

Tsitsipas Says Djokovic is Making Players 'Look Like Fools'...

.

by JazzNU Reminder : Tsitsipas never wanted to get the vaccine, and only did so because it was required to play in the Australian Open



by JazzNU I'm holding out hope, even though I know it'll never happen that, and it especially won't because this man can't do the right PR move to save his life, but the best move for Djokovic is to remove himself from the situation and go home before any decision is made.

Make a statement that he acknowledges that he broke isolation after the positive covid test, that it was a grave error in judgement to think he was above the rules, say he will to be in touch with L'Equipe to personally offer an apology to those he was in contact with that day, and to apologize for the false declarations on his travel documents. Say he doesn't want to be a distraction for the Aussie Open, and that he looks forward to playing at the next big tennis tournament of the year. It would be by far the best PR move he could make at this point, to actually take some level of responsibility for this completely preventable sh!tshow. A decent percentage of the people who liked him before this all happened and want to believe he is not a callous asshole would be much more inclined to forgive him if he took this approach and would be more likely to root for him again in the near future.

I know I'm living in a dream world, but it wouldn't kill him to do the right thing, it would actually help him, so a good self serving move, in line with the man he's shown himself to be.

by mmmm8
JazzNU wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:57 pm I'm holding out hope, even though I know it'll never happen that, and it especially won't because this man can't do the right PR move to save his life, but the best move for Djokovic is to remove himself from the situation and go home before any decision is made.

Make a statement that he acknowledges that he broke isolation after the positive covid test, that it was a grave error in judgement to think he was above the rules, say he will to be in touch with L'Equipe to personally offer an apology to those he was in contact with that day, and to apologize for the false declarations on his travel documents. Say he doesn't want to be a distraction for the Aussie Open, and that he looks forward to playing at the next big tennis tournament of the year. It would be by far the best PR move he could make at this point, to actually take some level of responsibility for this completely preventable sh!tshow. A decent percentage of the people who liked him before this all happened and want to believe he is not a callous asshole would be much more inclined to forgive him if he took this approach and would be more likely to root for him again in the near future.

I know I'm living in a dream world, but it wouldn't kill him to do the right thing, it would actually help him, so a good self serving move, in line with the man he's shown himself to be.
admitting he purposefully falsified legal documents would certainly not help him with the Aussie or Spanish governments.

by JazzNU
mmmm8 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:31 pm
admitting he purposefully falsified legal documents would certainly not help him with the Aussie or Spanish governments.
He's already done so, blamed his agent and said it was an error and unintentional, nothing stopping him from saying that BS again. He's not going to jail and he knows it. And there are now conflicting reports on whether Spain is investigating. His well paid attorneys can craft his statement so he avoids admitting any actual fault, not remotely hard to do here especially given the statement he already made and what he's admitted to.

by the Moz For sure. Novax will compete at the AO and will see no sanctioning of any kind from Australian, Spanish or Serbian authorities.

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:57 pm I'm holding out hope, even though I know it'll never happen that, and it especially won't because this man can't do the right PR move to save his life, but the best move for Djokovic is to remove himself from the situation and go home before any decision is made.

Make a statement that he acknowledges that he broke isolation after the positive covid test, that it was a grave error in judgement to think he was above the rules, say he will to be in touch with L'Equipe to personally offer an apology to those he was in contact with that day, and to apologize for the false declarations on his travel documents. Say he doesn't want to be a distraction for the Aussie Open, and that he looks forward to playing at the next big tennis tournament of the year. It would be by far the best PR move he could make at this point, to actually take some level of responsibility for this completely preventable sh!tshow. A decent percentage of the people who liked him before this all happened and want to believe he is not a callous asshole would be much more inclined to forgive him if he took this approach and would be more likely to root for him again in the near future.

I know I'm living in a dream world, but it wouldn't kill him to do the right thing, it would actually help him, so a good self serving move, in line with the man he's shown himself to be.
He really could've and should've done it after the court "victory". And yet here we are. And him with a cake-walk draw...

by ponchi101 100% on the money, all these last posts. But there is a certain quality that this man lacks, that will never make it possible for any of this to happen. Decency.
We saw it at the USO two years ago, after he hit the linesperson. The mic caught him saying "but you can't default me, not with my trajectory" (paraphrasing). He really believes he is above the rest, and when he speaks humbly is simply because he has been coached.

by meganfernandez

by ti-amie The internet man.

by ponchi101 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

by ashkor87 Does anyone have a list of players who had COVID, say, after November..they would still be wobbly, worth knowing so allowances can be made for them...

by ponchi101 Maybe scouring the ILLNESS AND INJURY topic?

by Deuce
meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:14 pm As much as I believe he probably didn't deserve his visa, I think Australia has missed the window to kick him out. They should have determined long ago whether he's in the country legally or not. Like when they cancelled his visa. Certainly should not have taken them more than a day after the hearing to weigh any addition evidence presented at the court hearing.

I guess Paul Sakkal didn't have good sources inside the govt telling him the minister was going to revoke the visa. It appears he was misled and/or didn't exercise proper judgment with his sources.
^ I was thinking the same thing - that if they were going to kick him out, they would have done so the day after the court decision.
But now I'm thinking that it's perhaps strategic that they are waiting. By waiting, they may be thinking that if they cancel his visa closer to when the tournament begins, it prevents the Djokovic lawyers from appealing the decision and/or going to court to get it reversed in time to play the tournament.
I'm hoping, at least, that this is the case.

by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:40 am Does anyone have a list of players who had COVID, say, after November..they would still be wobbly, worth knowing so allowances can be made for them...
^ I don't know why you keep insisting that all players will be 'wobbly' after their bout with COVID, and blaming their losses on this.
Some may be, but some clearly are not. Look what Shapovalov just did at the ATP Cup. He played a bunch of singles AND doubles - and that was literally DAYS after he had COVID. And Canada won. There are others, as well, whose play has not been affected by their bout with COVID.
So... yeah, some players might be affected in the short term, or even in the long term. But it's certainly not a universal thing. Some return to normal immediately. That's the thing about this virus - it affects different people differently.

by Deuce .

... Aaannd - it's done. Visa cancelled. He's out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/14/novak-djokovic-australia-visa/

https://news.sky.com/story/novak-djokovics-visa-cancelled-by-australias-immigration-minister-12515481

.

by ashkor87 See bencic quote

by Deuce Yes - but you've speculated that about several players who've lost this week. It's always because they had COVID.
I'm simply saying that it's not always because they had COVID. Maybe sometimes it is. But there is certainly enough evidence to prove that players can recover completely and quickly.

Also - Bencic was in that match the entire way - all three sets - against one of the best players in the world. It was a close match. Was her having COVID a few weeks ago the difference? No-one can know - including Bencic herself. I, personally tend to doubt it - because it was a very even match.
Maybe players simply lose because they didn't play as well as their opponent on that day...

by dmforever Bye Bye Novax.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/14 ... -australia

Kevin

by Deuce .

Statement from the Australian government regarding Mr. Novak Djokovic...

https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/statement-regarding-mr-novak-djokovic.aspx

Meanwhile...

Bernie Gets a Free Dinner From Umpire...

.

by mmmm8 Re: Tomic, I don't understand why the match wasn't immediately stopped and he wasn't isolated, whether he had COVID or not, he complained of the symptoms.

by Deuce
mmmm8 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:15 pm Re: Tomic, I don't understand why the match wasn't immediately stopped and he wasn't isolated, whether he had COVID or not, he complained of the symptoms.
Good point.
I didn't see the match, so I don't know what exactly happened.
Maybe Bernie's reputation had something to do with it? As in people not believing him...

But, yes - one would think - or hope - that these days, when someone is ill with symptoms resembling COVID-19, caution would be the course taken.
Especially when the player himself is saying that he thinks he's COVID positive.

by the Moz
the Moz wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:11 pm For sure. Novax will compete at the AO and will see no sanctioning of any kind from Australian, Spanish or Serbian authorities.
Please prove me wrong :thumbsup:

by FEBravo I watched the hearing, and in it the Djoko's lawyer said that the argument for canceling his visa is that remaining would stir anti-vax sentiment, and that it was not based on any public health risk or anything else. Obviously he is paid a lot of money to make the best possible argument, but I could not find anywhere the actual reasons for the cancelation. Is this not public? All I can find is the statement of the Minister, not the reasons which were provided to Djokovic (and his lawyers).

As his legal avenues are limited, he seems to be going to argue that the decision is so non-sensical ("patently irrational" is the word used at the hearing), that the decision cannot stand, as deporting him would also raise "anti-vax sentiment". I assume this time they were careful to dot all their "I" and cross all their "Ts", so there is probably not any procedural flaw, and therefore this is the best they can come up with.

I would be curious though if the reasons do state other issues like his blatant disregard of COVID rules and protocol in Serbia, his false/mistaken declaration, in addition to the fact that he is not vaccinated to cancel the visa. So if anyone sees it, please share!

EDIT: This was a procedural hearing to set the timeline, etc., so these issues were not argued and hence why it is unclear, the lawyer simply gave that preview. The full hearing should be on Sunday.

EDIT2: Government agreed they could have hearing on Sunday, but case will now be transferred so new judge would decide on timetable. I can't imagine they won't have it on Sunday, especially as they also agreed it would be short, as they would be no witnesses etc, and the arguments limited. So my guess is it will go on on Sunday, or a judge may dismiss it before then after reading the submissions. Djoko's lawyers agreed to submit everything by tomorrow midday, and government said they could respond late that evening if necessary. I do think they delayed to shorten the time as well, but would be a bad look for everyone if tournament had to remove him and for him to then win. In everyone's interest to get this resolved before Monday.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:15 pm Re: Tomic, I don't understand why the match wasn't immediately stopped and he wasn't isolated, whether he had COVID or not, he complained of the symptoms.
Very good point, and in fact he should have insisted. He should have reported his symptoms. And the tour managers should ask players if they are having symptoms every day, behind the scenes. If they say yes, they should have to test.

by ponchi101
the Moz wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:31 pm
the Moz wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:11 pm For sure. Novax will compete at the AO and will see no sanctioning of any kind from Australian, Spanish or Serbian authorities.
Please prove me wrong :thumbsup:
Ok, we are hoping you are so wrong. In three different countries. I am even holding the remote hope that Novax lands in Madrid for the Mutua in May, and he gets detained for his infractions in January.

by MJ2004
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:59 pm I am even holding the remote hope that Novax lands in Madrid for the Mutua in May, and he gets detained for his infractions in January.
The Spanish government stated yesterday that reports that they were investigating him were incorrect.

by Owendonovan He's just not important to the country of Australia, they need him for absolutely nothing. He's inserted himself into a political game as an athlete that he's lost without a speck of grace. Entitled attitudes are hard to pull off in times like these when the majority of people in this world are restricted in one way or another by COVID. I hope this is just the first of many dominoes to fall around him. Do Lacoste, Head, and Asics want the face of the anti-vaxxer movement promoting their brands? I barely see him as a tennis player any longer.

by mick1303
Owendonovan wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:23 pm He's just not important to the country of Australia, they need him for absolutely nothing. He's inserted himself into a political game as an athlete that he's lost without a speck of grace. Entitled attitudes are hard to pull off in times like these when the majority of people in this world are restricted in one way or another by COVID. I hope this is just the first of many dominoes to fall around him. Do Lacoste, Head, and Asics want the face of the anti-vaxxer movement promoting their brands? I barely see him as a tennis player any longer.
You're underestimating the sentiment this story creates. Equaling it as "anti-vaxxers" vs "pro-vaxxers" is oversimplifying it. I suspect there are plenty of people who make a personal choice to be vaccinated but are against government bullying of the citizen. In this context Djokovic is the hero because he tries to fight "the machine". Retailers who pay for advertisement will do studies and it may turn out that this mantra "he is entitled" is not shared by the majority. We shall see how it turns out.

by ponchi101 Please expand on your comment of "government bullying people". Is there an optic in which that has happened? Either Australia bullying Novax, or Australia bullying its own citizens?
Serious question.

by mick1303
ponchi101 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:05 pm Please expand on your comment of "government bullying people". Is there an optic in which that has happened? Either Australia bullying Novax, or Australia bullying its own citizens?
Serious question.
It is the latter. You can find stories that police is prosecuting people who are mask-less in the open air over there.

by ti-amie The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.

by ti-amie Karen Sweeney@karenlsweeney via @threadreaderapp

New day, new judge, new thread. Justice David O'Callaghan is about to hold a procedural hearing in the Federal Cout over Novak Djokovic's visa cancellation and deportation. It starts at 10.15am AEDT.

To answer some questinos - today is purely a procedural hearing ahead of tomorrow's final hearing. I'm expecting Justice O'Callaghan will confirm the tranfer of the case to the Federal Court and some of the orders made last night around deadlines for filing documents.

Judge Kelly ordered last night that Djokovic be with his lawyers from 10am to 2pm today while they file submissions, so I expect he'll be watching this hearing with them or nearby. There'll also be two Border Force officers on the same floor so that he's technically in detention.

Today's reporting is brought to you by a lovely long walk with my dog. I might dive back into the hot cross buns later though.

And we're underway. While Judge O'Callaghan is sitting in court in person everyone else is online from remote location and he's made the formal order confirming that can happen. He's also reminding everyone it's illegal to record or screenshot the hearing.

He says the purpose of the hearing is to deal with confirming Judge Kelly's order transferring the case from the Federal Circuit Court to the higher Federal Court. Secondly is to deal with procedural isues.

Thirdly, he says the Chief Justice has asked him to find out from them if they think the proper jurisdiction is a single judge, or a full court. Justice O'Callaghan says a full bench could be convened tomorrow.

Paul Holdenson QC is speaking for Novak Djokovic today. He's appearing with Nick Wood SC again. He says he would like a few minute to consider a full court decision.

He says the other procedural matters are confirming Djokovic's application be filed an served by midday today, and the government's reponse by 10pm. There's also to be a decision on time limits for the hearing. Yesterday 60 minutes was suggested.


Mr Holdenson said there's an affidavit in support of the application being prepared. Ordinarily that wouldn't be made publily available unti lit's been "read" by the court - essentilly not before tomorrow's hearing. But he's not opposed to it being made public today.
Djokovic's lawyers are keen for a full court.

Holdenson: "I think three judges is appropriate. That matter can be dealt with, in our submission, by a full court."
Stephen Lloyd says the government is opposed to a full court referral and there's no justification for it.

"In the normal course, any party has a right of appeal. Having the matter referred to the full court would remove any party's right to appeal."
Just quickly - a decision of a single judge in the Federal Court can be appealed to a full bench of three judges. Djokovic's lawyers support skipping straight to the three judges, the government is against it.
Justice O'Callaghan says the parties will be notified later this morning whether it'll be one judge or three.
• • •

by ti-amie



I don't really care about the man's accent tbh.

by ti-amie I do hope there is a way that all of the costs associated with this can be billed to Novax.

by mmmm8
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:41 pm I do hope there is a way that all of the costs associated with this can be billed to Novax.
They should be paid by Craig Tiley and whoever in the Victorian government approved Djokovic's exemption, IMHO. Djokovic would have never left Belgrade if they had followed their Federal government rules.

by ashkor87 Every government bullies its citizens .that is what governments do!😃

by MJ2004 I hope they keep harping on this point. If he's not going to admit the test result was falsified, he needs to answer for this.

Serbian health official disputes Djokovic's claim of when he got his Covid-19 PCR test results
From CNN’s Scott McLean, Nada Bashir and journalist Tihana Bajic in Belgrade

Novak Djokovic should have received notification of his positive Covid-19 PCR test results on Dec. 16 — as outlined by the timestamp on his test certificate — a Serbian health official said Friday, despite Djokovic’s claim that he did not receive official notification of the test results until Dec. 17.

Pressed by CNN on whether such a discrepancy between the time listed on the certificate and the time of notification via email — as claimed by Djokovic — could be possible, provincial health secretary Zoran Gojkovic said the result should have been received late in the evening of Dec. 16.

“You need to ask Novak Djokovic when he opened his inbox and checked the email. All I can say is that he has a valid document and that it was delivered to his inbox on that day, late in the evening. As for what he did after that, I cannot comment — that is a question for him,” Gojkovic said during a Friday government news briefing in Belgrade.

According to court filings, Djokovic took an official and approved PCR test on Dec. 16 — the results of which were generated after 8 p.m. on the same day, as outlined by the timestamp on the test certificate.

However, Djokovic claimed in a Jan. 12 statement that he did not receive notification of the positive PCR test result until the next day — after attending a tennis event, where he was photographed, without a mask, meeting with children.

A spokesperson for the Serbian prime minister echoed Gojkovic’s remarks, telling CNN after the news conference there is “no way in the world that he didn’t get the notification — no way in the world it could have been late by a day.”

Anecdotally, the results of a PCR test carried out by one CNN producer in Belgrade on Thursday were received via email two minutes after the time listed on the results certificate. Others who have been tested, however, say the time for results to be emailed can vary.

CNN has reached out to Djokovic’s representatives for comment.

by Owendonovan
mmmm8 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:20 am
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:41 pm I do hope there is a way that all of the costs associated with this can be billed to Novax.
They should be paid by Craig Tiley and whoever in the Victorian government approved Djokovic's exemption, IMHO. Djokovic would have never left Belgrade if they had followed their Federal government rules.
My hope is that Australians, once Novax is deported, direct their attention to Tiley and whomever he got to agree to the exemption in the Victorian government.

by Deuce I think that Djokovic would have ventured to Australia regardless of whether he was explicitly told he could play the tournament or not.
As we have seen for the past 10 days or so by his relentlessness, he would have done everything possible to try to play - whether it was morally and ethically acceptable or not.
He's just that kind of person.

by ti-amie



I read this three times to make sure I had read it correctly and understood what was being said.
"Cancelling Mr Djokovic's visa would prejudice Australia's economic interests, and jeopardise the viability of Australia continuing to host the Australian Open".

by dryrunguy Go Rafa!

As I said before, I'd say the same for Fed if he were competing.

by Deuce .

A couple of additional perspectives on the Djokovic situation (video interviews):

Mary Carillo...

Jon Wertheim...

.

by Liamvalid I don’t know if you guys have access to the BBC morning news wherever you are, but they just had a very entertaining interview with former Australian foreign minister Alexander Downer that’s worth a watch if you can (started around 8.35am GMT)

by skatingfan
Owendonovan wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:11 am My hope is that Australians, once Novax is deported, direct their attention to Tiley and whomever he got to agree to the exemption in the Victorian government.
If only there was some reason to talk about him for a fortnight during the middle of the Australian summer given how much the Aussies love their sports.

by oliver0001 So I couldn't sleep during the night over here in Europe and read the 260 or so pages (although there were a number of documents that were redundant). After reading both sides' arguments, I think it's not entirely unlikely that Djokovic might win, because
a) the Minister has acknowledged that there is a minimal health thread from Djokovic of directly transmitting the virus because after an infection you will be immune for a number of months from contracting it again
b) therefore indirectly retracting from the argument that a 14-day quarantine for non-vaccinated recently recovered people is necessary to enter Australia
c) both sides' arguments seem equally far-fetched to me: that Djokovic staying in Australia could lead to a strengthening of the anti-vaxx movement, people ignoring Corona rules and an overall hesitency for getting vaccinated (Minister's line of argument) or that the opposite would be true: deporting Djokovic would strengthen the anti-vaxx movement (Djokovic's lawyers' line of argument).

Two things from the documents I think are hilarious: if Djokovic is deported that would jeopardize the AO being played in Australia in the future (see earlier post) and Djokovic's lawyers citing as evidence an online-poll by The Age in which some 60% of people said they were in favor of Djokovic playing the AO (although clearly it might have been only Serbians participating in the poll).

by Deuce Given the inconsistencies with the various documentations and accounts of Djokovic's claimed positive COVID-19 test in December, and those inconsistencies coming from Djokovic's side, I believe it's reasonable to question whether the test and/or result of the test was legitimate or fake or manipulated.
As well, given the very convenient timing of his supposed positive test result, I also believe it's reasonable to question if he contracted COVID-19 deliberately (if he actually did contract it, which, of course, is itself questionable).

It is also reasonable to question his level of personal discipline and his level of consideration for others due to his behaviours and travels in the days following his supposed positive COVID-19 test.

Therefore, based on all of this, I believe it's more than reasonable to conclude that Novak Djokovic is akin to neither Jesus Christ nor Spartacus, as his parents claim, but is instead an undesirable, and, as such, should be escorted out of Australia forthwith.

For right now, I'm happy to see him back in his favourite detention hotel with his favourite food.

.

by mick1303
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:28 pm The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.
This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.

by oliver0001
mick1303 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:25 pm
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:28 pm The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.
This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.
Masks do help to not spread the virus. There are so many scientific studies on this, so I just cite one: https://www.mpg.de/17916867/coronavirus ... protection

While vaccinations used to help not to get infected with earlier variants, Omikron has changed this. However, unvaccinated people are likely to be infectious for longer and may have a higher degree of infectiousness. For Delta, see https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 22269010v1: In vaccinated vs. unvaccinated Delta infected individuals, RNA genome copies were comparable but vaccinated individuals have significantly lower IVTs, and cleared virus faster.

by ponchi101 I thought that part of the idea behind the masks is that in that way, the "plume" of your breathing is not as extended as without it. Your possible-virulent breaths remain closer to you.
The other thing is also psychological. If I see a person with a mask here in Bogota (and everybody is wearing them), my chances that such a person has been vaccinated are greater than if the person if without one. It allows me to decide whether I want to approach or not such a person. The people against all these controls fail to see that that is a basic tenet of civility: you do not want to wear a mask? Ok, let's grant you that (which we shouldn't, but that is another discussion). But then we get also the freedom of not interacting with you.

by oliver0001
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:27 pm I thought that part of the idea behind the masks is that in that way, the "plume" of your breathing is not as extended as without it. Your possible-virulent breaths remain closer to you.
The other thing is also psychological. If I see a person with a mask here in Bogota (and everybody is wearing them), my chances that such a person has been vaccinated are greater than if the person if without one. It allows me to decide whether I want to approach or not such a person. The people against all these controls fail to see that that is a basic tenet of civility: you do not want to wear a mask? Ok, let's grant you that (which we shouldn't, but that is another discussion). But then we get also the freedom of not interacting with you.
But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.

by ponchi101
oliver0001 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:37 pm ...

But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.
Mick was talking about wearing masks outdoors, so I was limiting myself to that scenario. When indoors, you will not find me in disagreement with your position.
I will be traveling to the USA on Wednesday, having to catch three planes in total. I am sure that some jerk in the cabin will not be wearing his mask. So my chances of C19/Omicron by next Saturday will certainly not be zero.

by oliver0001
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:44 pm
oliver0001 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:37 pm ...

But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.
Mick was talking about wearing masks outdoors, so I was limiting myself to that scenario. When indoors, you will not find me in disagreement with your position.
I will be traveling to the USA on Wednesday, having to catch three planes in total. I am sure that some jerk in the cabin will not be wearing his mask. So my chances of C19/Omicron by next Saturday will certainly not be zero.
I mostly agree with outdoors. But when there is a crowd outdoors, there is still a chance to catch it, unfortunately.

Good luck during your trip! (I've decided to not limit myself anymore travelling. Life without travelling is just so much less enjoyable...)

by dmforever IF i can jump in this discussion...As Oliver said, masks help reduce the chance of getting infected. But they are not foolproof. But they do help. And from what I've read and heard, the type of mask, especially with Omicron, is very important. Wear an N95 or KN95. They rest much more flush to your face than a cloth mask.

Kevin

by ponchi101 BTW.
Anybody knows what happens in THIS scenario: Novak is under detention right now. What if Monday comes, he is scheduled for hearings, and he can't play his match? Do we go like into 1 hour before the match Tennis Australia announces his default and grants the spot to LL?
Anybody knows what happens if he is under detention? Right now, he certainly can't train.

by meganfernandez
mick1303 wrote:
ti-amie wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:28 pm The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.
This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.
Being vaccinated does protect against contracting the virus, not just mitigating symptoms. It provides about 70% more protection against infection than the unvaccinated with the same exposure.

Not sure about the power of spreading it further once it’s contracted. But if the viral load is less - which would seem to go along with less-severe reactions - then probably less likely to spread it. Just a guess.

by dmforever
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:00 pm BTW.
Anybody knows what happens in THIS scenario: Novak is under detention right now. What if Monday comes, he is scheduled for hearings, and he can't play his match? Do we go like into 1 hour before the match Tennis Australia announces his default and grants the spot to LL?
Anybody knows what happens if he is under detention? Right now, he certainly can't train.
Ponchi, are you saying he is in detention right now, or are you asking what would happen if he is? I didn't read that anywhere.

Kevin

by Owendonovan I believe his hearing is at 9:30 am Sunday.

by meganfernandez
Owendonovan wrote:I believe his hearing is at 9:30 am Sunday.
Which is Sat 5:30 pm ET in the States, I believe. So very soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

by shmrck14 Here is the link for the hearing

by ponchi101
dmforever wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:02 pm ...

Ponchi, are you saying he is in detention right now, or are you asking what would happen if he is? I didn't read that anywhere.

Kevin
I read that he was to return to the same hotel where he was detained after the initial mess. Maybe I am confused too, as by now this imbroglio has become way too ridiculous, but I wonder if he can even go and train today.
Not that I care if he can't but, you get the point.

by atlpam Pretty sure he is back at the detainment hotel. In his current situation, he is not permitted to “work” in Australia.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie



Karen Sweeney
@karenlsweeney
Nick Wood SC is on his feet, beginning the submissions for Novak Djokovic. He says he wants to focus on the satement of reasons for decision by Immigration Minister Alex Hawke. He'll later deal with the grounds for review.

by weefunk Hearing has been delayed until 10:15 am Australian time

by weefunk or maybe not, since it seems to be going on.

by ti-amie

by mmmm8 I tuned in, heard Djokovic's attorney say, "there is no connection between Mr. Dokovic and anti-vaxxers" and tuned back out. The judges look miserable to be there on a Sunday morning

by Owendonovan These judges looked annoyed/bored to me.

by ti-amie

Julie
@dootsiez
Wood now dealing with a hurdle that he needs to get around - are the “health”, “good order” and “public interest” justifications for cancellation independent or co-dependent/cumulative. If independent he’s got problems: one limb falls and the others remain.

by ti-amie

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by ti-amie

by ti-amie From earlier (I think)


by ti-amie




by Owendonovan Government saying he could have been vaccinated, that there's no reason he couldn't.

by ti-amie


by ti-amie

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by oliver0001 In different news:

Tomic raising glasses and eyebrows before COVID diagnosis

https://www.smh.com.au/culture/celebrit ... 59og4.html

"It seems Bernard Tomic’s brief stint at a healthy lifestyle went out the window the moment he lost at the Australian Open qualifiers on Tuesday. Ranked 257th in the world, it was a short game of tennis losing to Russian Roman Safiullin after dropping the opening set in just 23 minutes.

True to form, the sore loser entered into a colourful exchange with the chair umpire about COVID, claiming to vehemently protest his suspicions that he had the virus. Despite those suspicions, Tomic managed to kick up his heels at Melbourne’s Electric bar in Prahran on Tuesday night. Emerald City was told the newly bleached-hair athlete was indulging in a beverage favoured by high schoolers, knocking back “Wet Pussy” shots at the Chapel Street bar.

At one point, Tomic was spied holding court at the main bar, packing on the PDA with his Gold Coast influencer girlfriend Keely Hannah; the pair leaving the venue at closing time. Just last month, Tomic claimed to have given up the booze, adopted a vegan diet and put dating on hold in his bid to reach the top of his game.

Nursing a sore head on Thursday, Tomic managed to catch the 10.10am Virgin flight from Melbourne to the Gold Coast where a passenger says he was seated at the pointy end of the plane.

“He was in the front row wearing a cap and mask doing a bad job at looking anonymous,” a passenger said.

Despite Queensland requirements to provide a negative antigen test upon entry, passengers were not checked by Queensland Health.

A spokesperson for Tomic confirmed his client tested positive later that afternoon. “He is in isolation and doing well considering, it [COVID-19 symptoms] seems to come in waves.”

Very reckless to say the least...

by dmforever From what I've heard, the case now is focusing on whether Novax being in Australia can stoke anti-vax flames. I don't support people not getting vaccinated in any way, but that argument seems like a last minute grasping at straws. I guess we'll know soon.

Also, I wonder what decision Kecmonavic is rooting for. ;)


Kevin

by ti-amie

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by oliver0001 Very anticlimactic: No reasons for the decision to be given today.

by ti-amie There was no other decision to be reached. If not for TA and Craig Tiley creating the loophole that brought this circus to Melbourne none of this would've happened.

by ti-amie From the Chief Justice:


by Deuce Amen. Go home and sulk.
Now... on with the bloody TENNIS!

(Novak's disciples must be thoroughly disappointed to see the photos of their Hero and Saviour wearing a mask!)

by ti-amie So far not much has been posted by his stans on Twitter. Tiley needs to be held accountable for creating this fiasco.

by ti-amie

by the Moz Finally, the proper verdict. Good riddance! He should never been allowed in based on an invalid medical exemption at the federal level. End of. Now bring on the tennis!

by ponchi101
ti-amie wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:28 am So far not much has been posted by his stans on Twitter. Tiley needs to be held accountable for creating this fiasco.
After the tournament is over, the gracious thing to do would be to step down. He showed considerable favoritism towards one player, something that cannot be accepted by the rest of the playing community.
About Novax. He has always tried to portray a persona of being smart and thoughtful. Now, he is at 20 Slams, and will remain there, both because of an errant ball at the '20 USO, and now because of a refusal to get a simple vaccine. Eventually, the evidence that you are actually pretty dumb stops being unnoticeable.

by Owendonovan
ti-amie wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:15 am There was no other decision to be reached. If not for TA and Craig Tiley creating the loophole that brought this circus to Melbourne none of this would've happened.
Exactly. This whole affair is almost entirely on him, yet he's barely mentioned in any press as being involved/the cause of this whole drama. Hopefully that changes in the coming days.

by dmforever He didn't deserve to play, but not for the idiotic reasons that the government used. It's scary when government overstep their authority. :(

Kevin

by ti-amie

by ti-amie Australia confirms Novak Djokovic is banned from the country for THREE YEARS as Prime Minister takes a brutal swipe at the tennis superstar after his dramatic late-night deportation and his dad labels saga an 'ASSASSINATION'

Novak Djokovic flew overnight to Dubai after being deported from Australia
The tennis champion spent 11 days unsuccessfully battling to maintain his visa
The controversial court decision has sparked fury among the world no. 1's fans
The Home Affairs Minister confirmed he will be banned for three years
Civil rights advocates fear the legal case sets a worrying precedent for visitors
They argue anyone with 'undesirable' political views could now be deported
But the decision has been praised by many Australians and by PM Scott Morrison
The Prime Minister said he 'welcomed the decision to keep our borders strong'

By BRETT LACKEY and TITA SMITH FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA
PUBLISHED: 16:11 EST, 16 January 2022 | UPDATED: 18:20 EST, 16 January 2022

Novak Djokovic will be banned from entering Australia for three years after his visa cancellation was upheld, the Federal Government has confirmed.

In an interview with the Today Show on Monday, Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews confirmed the years-long ban was the outcome of the court decision.

'The visa was cancelled by [Immigration] Minister Hawke,' Ms Andrews said.


'That cancellation was upheld by the Federal Court, so as a result of that, he will be banned from entry for three years into the country.'

Ms Andrews said should Djokovic return to Australia with compelling reasons in the future 'that may be looked at but that's all hypothetical at this point.'

Djokovic left Australia late on Sunday night after 11 days of remarkable legal wrangling saw the tennis champion finally exhaust his options, with the full bench of the Federal Court siding with Minister Hawke.

He was escorted to Melbourne Airport by police on Sunday evening and boarded an Emirates flight to Dubai about 10.30pm, and will transit on to Spain.

Image
Djokovic (pictured with team at Melbourne Airport on Sunday night) organised to leave Australia within hours of losing his appeal

Image
Novak Djokovic is escorted through Melbourne Airport on Sunday night (pictured centre)

Image
The prominent Belgrade Tower in the Serbian capital was lit up with Djokovic's nickname 'Nole' overnight (pictured)

The controversial decision was met with shock by his fans, family and politicians back in Serbia, with Djokovic's outraged father labelling it an 'assassination attempt' against his son and President Aleksandar Vucic accused Australian officials of 'lying'.

But Scott Morrison, and millions of Australians, supported the move, with the prime minister saying he 'welcomed the decision to keep our borders strong'.

He did add that despite the three-year ban there could be room for the tennis ace to travel back to Australia.

'It does go over a three-year period but there is the opportunity for them to return in the right circumstances, and that will be considered at the time'.

Mr Morrison was also forced to dismiss bizarre claims by the Serbian president that the tennis superstar's prolonged stints in immigration detention amounted to 'physical torture'.

'Well, it's very clear that Australia has not tortured Mr Djokovic.' Mr Morrison told 2GB on Monday.

Djokovic lost his last-ditch bid to stay in Melbourne and compete in the Australian Open on Sunday after three federal court judges unanimously ruled he did not have grounds to dispute Mr Hawke's visa cancellation.

The 34-year-old, who has been ordered to pay the federal government's legal costs, said he was 'extremely disappointed' with the court's decision to dismiss his application but that he respected its ruling.

Image
AFP officers stand nearby as tennis superstar Novak Djokovic (pictured back right) sits ands waits for his flight out of Australia

Ms Andrews on Monday acknowledged there were some 'issues' around the interview process after the world No.1 was stopped at Melbourne Airport but Djokovic was not entitled to enter the country - despite being granted a visa before arriving.

'Anyone coming into Australia it is their responsibility that they are meeting the entry requirements... just because you have a valid visa does not guarantee you will be able to enter Australia,' she said.

'What was given to Mr Djokovic on arrival in Australia - before he cleared our immigration processes - was the opportunity to be able to produce the documentation that was needed, which he could not.'

'He wasn't fully-vaccinated, which is a requirement. If you are not you have to be able to provide medical evidence to support there is a medical reason why you can't be vaccinated - that was the issue at the border.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... YEARS.html

by dryrunguy Wow. I didn't expect THAT.

by ti-amie
dryrunguy wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:40 pm Wow. I didn't expect THAT.
I think it was missed by a lot of people earlier today. The two Aussie reporters mentioned it.

by ponchi101 In view of how poorly the Aussie Govt handled this... unnecessary.

by MJ2004 He gets vaccinated, I'm sure they'll retract the ban.
He doesn't get vaccinated, nothing has changed and the ban should stay in place.

by dryrunguy
MJ2004 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:46 pm He gets vaccinated, I'm sure they'll retract the ban.
He doesn't get vaccinated, nothing has changed and the ban should stay in place.
Doesn't that depend on existing vaccine efficacy against future variants, future vaccine development, and future science about immunity after contraction? A lot has changed during the course of this pandemic, and a lot more could change in the months and years ahead. I know it sounds strange after nearly 2 years of dealing with this crap, but it's too early to draw lines in the sand. We have no idea what the future holds.

by skatingfan I don't think Djokovic's vaccine status will impact the ban. The ban is related to being deported from Australia for attempting an illegal entry. Basically his career at the Australian Open is over, and I doubt he even wants to ever return to the country after what has happened.

by ti-amie

by Deuce Djokovic won't be banned for 3 years. That's simply the government taking advantage of the situation and flexing its muscles for the sake of being re-elected (it's an election year).
There is plenty of time - and plenty of avenues - for this 'decision' to be overturned. And it will be.

Unless Djokovic retires within the next year - in that case, he would likely not appeal the 3 year ban, and it may remain.

by ponchi101 We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.

by skatingfan
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:53 am We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.

by MJ2004 After stating last week that Djokovic would be allowed to play in France, the French sports minister today said there would be no exemption from France's new vaccine pass law.

"France's vaccine pass law, approved by parliament on Sunday, will require people to have a certificate of vaccination to enter public places such as restaurants, cafes, cinemas and long-distance trains. The rule is simple. The vaccine pass will be imposed, as soon as the law is promulgated, in establishments that were already subject to the health pass," the ministry said. "This will apply to everyone who is a spectator or a professional sportsperson. And this until further notice. "Now, as far as Roland Garros is concerned, it's in May. The situation may change between now and then and we hope that it will be more favourable. So we'll see, but clearly there's no exemption."
- Sportstar

by Suliso I don't think he can go to IW or Miami either. USA doesn't allow entry of non vaccinated foreigners except under some very specific circumstances (refugees, immigrant visas etc).

by ponchi101 At a minimum, it looks like if he doesn't vaccinate, 2022 is over for him.
McEnroe went on a rant about how Novax had "guts" to go down under with no vaccines. Sure, nobody is denying he has guts. The questions revolve around "brains".

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:53 am We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.
Have you been keeping this in your pocket for 2 weeks?

by meganfernandez
Deuce wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:52 am Djokovic won't be banned for 3 years. That's simply the government taking advantage of the situation and flexing its muscles for the sake of being re-elected (it's an election year).
There is plenty of time - and plenty of avenues - for this 'decision' to be overturned. And it will be.

Unless Djokovic retires within the next year - in that case, he would likely not appeal the 3 year ban, and it may remain.
The 3-year ban might be automatic, and people can appeal it if they have a reason to return.

by ponchi101
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:33 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:53 am We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.
Have you been keeping this in your pocket for 2 weeks?
I found it in another forum that I belong to, which is NOT tennis related (cars). The people there are, shall we say, less restrained and polite than we are here ;) and they are really piling it on top of Novax. That was the latest :D

by meganfernandez

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:35 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:33 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:53 am We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.
Have you been keeping this in your pocket for 2 weeks?
I found it in another forum that I belong to, which is NOT tennis related (cars). The people there are, shall we say, less restrained and polite than we are here ;) and they are really piling it on top of Novax. That was the latest :D
I was gonna say, if you can come up with this stuff this good, don't just give it away here for free!

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:45 pm
I just saw this. Unfortunate for her and other affected players (maybe she can still enter and play doubles?) but the timing of this shouldn't depend on sporting events.

by ponchi101 :P I think I have come up with stuff that good before.
But that one was worth sharing...

by JazzNU
MJ2004 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:45 pm After stating last week that Djokovic would be allowed to play in France, the French sports minister today said there would be no exemption from France's new vaccine pass law.
On Tennis Twitter when the the Sports Minister made the previous announcement saying he'd be allowed to play, I saw many asking if they had bothered to check with Macron on that. Macron hasn't been playing with these anti-vaxxers so it seemed like it might be a stretch when the statement was made.

by JazzNU
Suliso wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 pm I don't think he can go to IW or Miami either. USA doesn't allow entry of non vaccinated foreigners except under some very specific circumstances (refugees, immigrant visas etc).
Correct, IW, Miami, Cincy, and US Open are a no at the moment. The NBA has considerably more pull than the ATP or ITF here, and the NBA told their foreign players earlier in the season that those holding temporary visas who are unvaccinated are banned from travel to Toronto for any games there as they have no guarantee on a timetable for when they are able to re-enter under US regulations. Also, Canada's new rules should be in place sometime this month, so no Toronto/Montreal Masters either if no changes made by the summer.

Wimbledon is seeming like his lone hope for a GS in 2022 (and that's on him).

by ti-amie
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:53 am We overlooked this factoid:
The Australians have always been good at Tennis.
They know how to return a Serb.

by ponchi101
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:03 pm ...

Correct, IW, Miami, Cincy, and US Open are a no at the moment. The NBA has considerably more pull than the ATP or ITF here, and the NBA told their foreign players earlier in the season that those holding temporary visas who are unvaccinated are banned from travel to Toronto for any games there as they have no guarantee on a timetable for when they are able to re-enter under US regulations. Also, Canada's new rules should be in place sometime this month, so no Toronto/Montreal Masters either if no changes made by the summer.

Wimbledon is seeming like his lone hope for a GS in 2022 (and that's on him).
He is in Belgrade now, and there is no doubt that he will find a doctor that will provide him with a certificate, but will not vaccinate him.
Dr. Makim Dissup will sign his certificate.

by ti-amie
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:10 pm
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:03 pm ...

Correct, IW, Miami, Cincy, and US Open are a no at the moment. The NBA has considerably more pull than the ATP or ITF here, and the NBA told their foreign players earlier in the season that those holding temporary visas who are unvaccinated are banned from travel to Toronto for any games there as they have no guarantee on a timetable for when they are able to re-enter under US regulations. Also, Canada's new rules should be in place sometime this month, so no Toronto/Montreal Masters either if no changes made by the summer.

Wimbledon is seeming like his lone hope for a GS in 2022 (and that's on him).
He is in Belgrade now, and there is no doubt that he will find a doctor that will provide him with a certificate, but will not vaccinate him.
Dr. Makim Dissup will sign his certificate.
You're on quite a tear today aren't you? :lol:

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:10 pm He is in Belgrade now, and there is no doubt that he will find a doctor that will provide him with a certificate, but will not vaccinate him.
Dr. Makim Dissup will sign his certificate.
At this point with as shoddy a record of honesty as he's got, if he's not publicly shown getting a vaccine (which would surely be a special vial of salt or sugar water), not sure who would believe him. He's putting Serbia in a very tough spot acting like this and getting official sources to lie or cover up for for him.

by MJ2004 That can't be a good thing, injecting sugar water into a vein. I get that you didn't mean it literally, but it did make me wonder, what would happen?

by JazzNU
MJ2004 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:23 pm That can't be a good thing, injecting sugar water into a vein. I get that you didn't mean it literally, but it did make me wonder, what would happen?
I did mean it literally. Placebos are typically sugar or salt water.

by MJ2004
JazzNU wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:32 pm
MJ2004 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:23 pm That can't be a good thing, injecting sugar water into a vein. I get that you didn't mean it literally, but it did make me wonder, what would happen?
I did mean it literally. Placebos are typically sugar or salt water.
Huh, guess it's safe. Of course, it's not going into a vein (I misspoke). It's just a muscle injection.

by ponchi101 There are some rumors that Novax is getting a sponsorship with Master Card.
Because his application for VISA was rejected.

by dryrunguy
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:30 pm At a minimum, it looks like if he doesn't vaccinate, 2022 is over for him.
McEnroe went on a rant about how Novax had "guts" to go down under with no vaccines. Sure, nobody is denying he has guts. The questions revolve around "brains".
It wasn't guts. It was classic chutzpah.

by MJ2004 Did anyone see that interview with McEnroe? I did. At best, he was “flexible with the knowledge” as someone on Twitter put it. It was an absolute embarrassment and I’m just so done listening to him.

by ponchi101 I read the transcript and it did sound on the looney side. I don't mind if you are going to be on Novax' side, but at least be coherent.

by ti-amie Oh is there a transcript or video? I didn't see anything he said.

by MJ2004 Assuming we’re talking about the same interview (he may have spouted off in more than one), the one I saw was very near the start of ESPN coverage yesterday evening. With Chris McKendry and Chris Evert.

by MJ2004 Yep, same interview. Here's an article discussing it: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/john-mcenr ... 41231.html

by JazzNU I've noticed that McEnroe has gotten incredibly permissive of whatever wrongdoing or unlikable character trait Novax does or has and as far as I can tell, it's because he sees himself as Novax and Bjorn as the Federer/Nadal. Every time I see him defending Novax (didn't see this one, just read a bit), but on other stuff, his words could easily be a defense of his own outlandish behavior when he was playing. So what if I'm yelling at the top of my lungs and making threats to the umpires, they are awful and self-important inserting themselves into these matches constantly = So what he hit the lineswoman? How about not standing in the way of the ball when I need to blow off steam and hit it? It's become clearer to me with every incident that occurs. And he's almost gotten uncomfortable to listen to when discussing Novak's popularity vs. Federer/Nadal, like tepid applause from the crowd and he's like, see they are loving this and loving him. No they aren't John, you're projecting.

by ti-amie The McEnroe brothers and Djokovic have been close for years. Tennis media just never talks about it. What he reportedly said per that Yahoo article is no surprise.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:40 am The McEnroe brothers and Djokovic have been close for years. Tennis media just never talks about it. What he reportedly said per that Yahoo article is no surprise.
Exactly. And speaking of Patrick, when he appeared on Get Up at the end of last week, he could've stood to say more about the situation the way that Darren Cahill did when I heard him on Sports Center (a very good appearance from him). But Patrick basically boiled it down to Djokovic being a political football and that being what this is about. To say I was disappointed was an understatement.

And you know I hate Mary Carillo, but I saw her on MSNBC a few days ago talking about the situation and she did a great job.

by Deuce McEnroe always says stupid things - and it's legitimate to say that his defense of Djokovic is at least in part a defense of himself... but he also says some things that make sense sometimes.
For example - from the recent article/interview:
“It’s total BS. If he decides not to have a vaccine and the Australian authorities say, ‘You cannot go down there unless you’re vaccinated', end of story, it’s black or white."
That is spot on - that's exactly how it SHOULD have been handled.

As for Mary Carillo, in my view, she is the most intelligent and witty tennis broadcaster at present.

by MJ2004 The two reporters who have stood out and done a great job in this scenario are Paul Sakkal (not a tennis reporter, but he's been outstanding) and on the tennis front Jon Wertheim gave a great interview with Christiane Amanpour.

Sakkal appeared twice on the No Challenges Podcast and gave the best and most detailed explanation I've heard yet of what happened down under. I think the first appearance was linked to here on TAT already, here's his second appearance, which aired yesterday:
https://nochallengesremaining.podbean.c ... e-is-done/

by meganfernandez
MJ2004 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:39 pm and done a great job in this scenario are Paul Sakkal (not a tennis reporter, but he's been outstanding) and on the tennis front Jon Wertheim gave a great interview with Christiane Amanpour.

Sakkal appeared twice on the No Challenges Podcast and gave the best and most detailed explanation I've heard yet of what happened down under. I think the first appearance was linked to here on TAT already, here's his second
Probably helped that Sakkal isn't a tennis reporter. He needed news experience and civic contacts for this story.

by JazzNU
MJ2004 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:39 pm The two reporters who have stood out and done a great job in this scenario are Paul Sakkal (not a tennis reporter, but he's been outstanding) and on the tennis front Jon Wertheim gave a great interview with Christiane Amanpour.

Sakkal appeared twice on the No Challenges Podcast and gave the best and most detailed explanation I've heard yet of what happened down under. I think the first appearance was linked to here on TAT already, here's his second appearance, which aired yesterday:
https://nochallengesremaining.podbean.c ... e-is-done/
Haven't seen Jon much on this, but agree completely on Paul doing a great job covering the story.

by ti-amie Someone on another site suggested that Novax would be allowed to play Miami since Florida is a no vaxx state.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:07 am Someone on another site suggested that Novax would be allowed to play Miami since Florida is a no vaxx state.
That's ridiculous. He needs to get in the country first. DeSantis doesn't set the rules for entry into the country, just permissiveness once in Florida. People have a very poor understanding of how things work. And obnoxious Novax fans are quite desperate right now and grasping at straws.

by meganfernandez A former State Dept friend of mine noticed that the law says people to the US arriving by plane must be vaccinated. He wondered if Djokovic could arrive by boat or through Mexico or Canada. I assume the same law applies by land or sea and he just didn't see that version, but it's a funny image, Novak pulling up in a yacht.

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

by ti-amie

Image

by meganfernandez Great, another medical exemption.
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:10 pm

Image

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:42 pm A former State Dept friend of mine noticed that the law says people to the US arriving by plane must be vaccinated. He wondered if Djokovic could arrive by boat or through Mexico or Canada. I assume the same law applies by land or sea and he just didn't see that version, but it's a funny image, Novak pulling up in a yacht.
Same rules apply, you friend just missed it.

by ti-amie I guess Wertheim deleted his tweet?

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:12 pm I guess Wertheim deleted his tweet?
Yeah. What did it say?

by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:25 pm
ti-amie wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:12 pm I guess Wertheim deleted his tweet?
Yeah. What did it say?
All it said was (paraphrasing) "this is what the players are receiving now" along with the above image.

by MJ2004 Djokovic has 80% stake in biotech firm developing Covid drug
QuantBioRes is working on a treatment not a vaccine, but CEO says tennis star is ‘not anti-vax’

Novak Djokovic is the controlling shareholder in a Danish biotech firm aiming to develop a treatment for Covid-19 that does not involve vaccination, it has emerged.

The world No 1, who was deported from Australia this week after the government cancelled his visa in a dispute over a medical exemption relating to his unvaccinated status, bought an 80% stake in QuantBioRes in 2020.

Ivan Loncarevic, the company’s chief executive, confirmed the investment to Reuters. He subsequently told the Financial Times that he had not spoken to Djokovic, who has won more than $150m in prize money, since November and that the tennis star was “not anti-vax”.

Djokovic flew out of Australia on Sunday after losing a legal challenge to overturn the cancellation of his visa by Alex Hawke, the country’s immigration minister, who said Djokovic’s presence in Australia might risk “civil unrest” as he was a “talisman of anti-vaccination sentiment”.

QuantBioRes has about 11 researchers working in Denmark, Australia and Slovenia, according to Loncarevic, who stressed the company was working on a treatment, not a vaccine. The company’s website says it started developing a “deactivation mechanism” for Covid-19 in July 2020.

Djokovic, who may also be barred from defending his French Open title in Roland Garros in May after the French government ruled on Monday that all athletes will have to be vaccinated in order to attend and compete in sporting events, acquired his stake in the company in June 2020.

The company is developing a peptide, which inhibits the coronavirus from infecting the human cell, and it expects to launch clinical trials in Britain this summer, Loncarevic said.

A spokesperson for Djokovic did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

-The Guardian

by ti-amie

by Owendonovan
ti-amie wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:32 am
Hmmm, couldn't find where the size of Serbia contributed to their decision. :roll:

by mmmm8 106 points, all that legal prep and all the hearings. What a waste of everyone's time. Probably delayed immigration proceedings for someone for whom it's really life-changing to have the hearing. I still say it's Tennis Australia's fault.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:54 pm 106 points, all that legal prep and all the hearings. What a waste of everyone's time. Probably delayed immigration proceedings for someone for whom it's really life-changing to have the hearing. I still say it's Tennis Australia's fault.
What are the points? Do you mean they made 106 points in their written verdict? Agree about them resources. Such a shame. Tennis Australia is certainly culpable, but Djokovic didn't have to rely on them to know if he could enter the country legally. I'm surprised he didn't do the due diligence under the circumstances... unless he thought he needed TA's help to enter the country, which tells you right there something was wrong.

by mmmm8
meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:00 pm
mmmm8 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:54 pm 106 points, all that legal prep and all the hearings. What a waste of everyone's time. Probably delayed immigration proceedings for someone for whom it's really life-changing to have the hearing. I still say it's Tennis Australia's fault.

What are the points?
Do you mean they made 106 points in their written verdict? Agree about them resources. Such a shame. Tennis Australia is certainly culpable, but Djokovic didn't have to rely on them to know if he could enter the country legally. I'm surprised he didn't do the due diligence under the circumstances... unless he thought he needed TA's help to enter the country, which tells you right there something was wrong.
Yes, I meant the court decision. A lot of work went into drafting that.

by ponchi101 Novax, according to Marian, has been hit "mentally", and is "hurt".
So hard to discover that the world does not revolve around you. So hard.

by meganfernandez The Daily podcast from the New York Times today is about Djokovic and the larger picture of Australia's immigration philosophy. The guest/expert is the Times' bureau chief in Australia.

by ti-amie Statement from Rublev.



The statement

Image

by Owendonovan
MJ2004 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:27 pm Djokovic has 80% stake in biotech firm developing Covid drug
QuantBioRes is working on a treatment not a vaccine, but CEO says tennis star is ‘not anti-vax’

Novak Djokovic is the controlling shareholder in a Danish biotech firm aiming to develop a treatment for Covid-19 that does not involve vaccination, it has emerged.

The world No 1, who was deported from Australia this week after the government cancelled his visa in a dispute over a medical exemption relating to his unvaccinated status, bought an 80% stake in QuantBioRes in 2020.

Ivan Loncarevic, the company’s chief executive, confirmed the investment to Reuters. He subsequently told the Financial Times that he had not spoken to Djokovic, who has won more than $150m in prize money, since November and that the tennis star was “not anti-vax”.

Djokovic flew out of Australia on Sunday after losing a legal challenge to overturn the cancellation of his visa by Alex Hawke, the country’s immigration minister, who said Djokovic’s presence in Australia might risk “civil unrest” as he was a “talisman of anti-vaccination sentiment”.

QuantBioRes has about 11 researchers working in Denmark, Australia and Slovenia, according to Loncarevic, who stressed the company was working on a treatment, not a vaccine. The company’s website says it started developing a “deactivation mechanism” for Covid-19 in July 2020.

Djokovic, who may also be barred from defending his French Open title in Roland Garros in May after the French government ruled on Monday that all athletes will have to be vaccinated in order to attend and compete in sporting events, acquired his stake in the company in June 2020.

The company is developing a peptide, which inhibits the coronavirus from infecting the human cell, and it expects to launch clinical trials in Britain this summer, Loncarevic said.

A spokesperson for Djokovic did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

-The Guardian
Reading up on this company makes one think Novax is being taken for a ride. Dr Darren Saunders, an Australian biomedical scientist,in his opinion says it was “a stretch” for QuantBioRes to call itself a biotech company. “The ‘innovative technology’ they describe on their website does not reflect contemporary understanding of how biochemistry works,” Saunders said. “If any athletes or other potential investors would like advice on not blowing their cash on this stuff, my fees are reasonable.”

by JazzNU
Owendonovan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Reading up on this company makes one think Novax is being taken for a ride. Dr Darren Saunders, an Australian biomedical scientist,in his opinion says it was “a stretch” for QuantBioRes to call itself a biotech company. “The ‘innovative technology’ they describe on their website does not reflect contemporary understanding of how biochemistry works,” Saunders said. “If any athletes or other potential investors would like advice on not blowing their cash on this stuff, my fees are reasonable.”
He is not being taken for a ride. He believes in quackery. Let us not forget that BS IG Live he had early on in the pandemic with that "guru" where he was talking about how happy thoughts can change polluted water or whatever.

by ponchi101 He is one of those "smart" people that know more than anybody else. The Rodgers, Irvings, and most of my friends that simply have no BS detection kit.

by Owendonovan
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:38 am He is one of those "smart" people that know more than anybody else. The Rodgers, Irvings, and most of my friends that simply have no BS detection kit.

by ti-amie This is log time tennis journalist Craig Gabriel


by mmmm8 Yeah, Craig's done PR for some tournaments as well. Hope it's a mild case

by ti-amie

by Deuce .

Formula 1 says no exemptions will be given.
Also - a competitive American surfer may not be permitted entry to Australia...

No Exemptions For Vaccination Requirements...

.

by meganfernandez Jack Sock has it. Had to withdraw from the quarterfinal of the challenger he was playing.

by MJ2004 This was reported already, but interesting that the BBC published a new article yesterday delving more deeply into questions about that test:
https://www.bbc.com/news/59999541

by JazzNU Thanks for posting MJ. It'll be interesting to see if he winds up playing the French. There's been growing confidence in the last week that he'll be able to play the French unvaccinated because of when he tested positive for covid and there being a waiver of the new law with a recent covid test, which appears to be defined as within 6 months. If that holds true and he doesn't play at the French, that'll be a huge signal that he doesn't want that covid test looked into that closely. Seems like exposing a fake test or altering dates on a real test for him could be an even bigger international incident than the what happened in Australia.

Will he "sustain" a minor injury ahead of the French while practicing that clears up in time to play at Wimbledon? I wouldn't be remotely surprised.

by MJ2004
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 am Seems like exposing a fake test or altering dates on a real test for him could be an even bigger international incident than the what happened in Australia.
How is he going to be exposed? People around the world can question it all day long, but with Serbian officials backing him, there's going to be no way to prove anything conclusively. And the French authorities are not likely to be as motivated as the Australians were to prevent him from entering the country. I predict he will be allowed to play at the French. There will of course be noise on the subject but it will amount to nothing.

by meganfernandez
MJ2004 wrote:
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 am Seems like exposing a fake test or altering dates on a real test for him could be an even bigger international incident than the what happened in Australia.
How is he going to be exposed? People around the world can question it all day long, but with Serbian officials backing him, there's going to be no way to prove anything conclusively. And the French authorities are not likely to be as motivated as the Australians were to prevent him from entering the country. I predict he will be allowed to play at the French. There will of course be noise on the subject but it will amount to nothing.
If he is allowed to play the French, i think will be in a little bubble. Won’t be able to move freely around Paris. And he’ll deal with it. He wants that record.

by meganfernandez
MJ2004 wrote:
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:28 am Seems like exposing a fake test or altering dates on a real test for him could be an even bigger international incident than the what happened in Australia.
How is he going to be exposed? People around the world can question it all day long, but with Serbian officials backing him, there's going to be no way to prove anything conclusively. And the French authorities are not likely to be as motivated as the Australians were to prevent him from entering the country. I predict he will be allowed to play at the French. There will of course be noise on the subject but it will amount to nothing.
Theoretically, a journalist who speaks the language could find a source or pay for some leaked documents. I’m sure many people have a price.


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by meganfernandez We need the rest of the exemption categories, but unless there's something for fully unvaccinated players, Djokovic isn't playing RG. (Although evidently there's a rumor that he's going to get the vaccination.)

For those who don't want to click through: If you aren't fully vaccinated, you can't come without an exemption. The only exemption visible in the photo is "have received one shot of J&J more than two months ago but haven't received a European—" then it cuts off. And if you get an exemption, you are confined to the tournament site, hotel, and cars, with "one jog per day." Same applies to 2 team members max and they have to be accredited coaches, therapists, etc. No spouses or family.


by Suliso Many countries in EU are going in the direction of abolishing all mandates and restrictions. Maybe France too by the time RG come around.

by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:49 pm Many countries in EU are going in the direction of abolishing all mandates and restrictions. Maybe France too by the time RG come around.
Really? I just read that Germany requires all adults to be vaccinated, or will this month. No? And of course, this is until another more-contagious, more-dangerous variant flares up.

by JazzNU
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:09 pm We need the rest of the exemption categories, but unless there's something for fully unvaccinated players, Djokovic isn't playing RG. (Although evidently there's a rumor that he's going to get the vaccination.)
The articles I saw about it were true clickbait. Hey, Novax will be getting vaccinated so he can play in the French is the headline. Article says, someone (who wrote a book with him I think?) says he think he's going to be getting it so he can play and he's been motivated by Nadal getting to 21. Huh? So nothing from Novax or his camp so basically nothing has changed? Truly a wait and see.

by meganfernandez
JazzNU wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:22 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:09 pm We need the rest of the exemption categories, but unless there's something for fully unvaccinated players, Djokovic isn't playing RG. (Although evidently there's a rumor that he's going to get the vaccination.)
The articles I saw about it were true clickbait. Hey, Novax will be getting vaccinated so he can play in the French is the headline. Article says, someone (who wrote a book with him I think?) says he think he's going to be getting it so he can play and he's been motivated by Nadal getting to 21. Huh? So nothing from Novax or his camp so basically nothing has changed? Truly a wait and see.
Probably right. I saw it mentioned in a comment, no source cited. Wasn't sure if he had any credibility. Guess not.

by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:49 pm Many countries in EU are going in the direction of abolishing all mandates and restrictions. Maybe France too by the time RG come around.
Are they also going to abolish mandates about vaccination? Plus, one thing is to eliminate mandates for your citizens, another is for visitors.
I gather that in places like Denmark, which has been very clear it will eliminate all mandates because their vaccination rate is very high, they will require proof of vaccination.

by Suliso Right, possibly not for foreigners coming.

by oliver0001 Austria has a new vaccination mandate, not Germany. Germany is currently discussing one, but likely only for people with a permanent residence in Germany, not for visitors. Sweden has abolished nearly all Corona restrictions, also for non-vaccinated people, saying that Corona doesn't pose a significant risk anymore (although acknowledging that vaccination rates are not particularly high). Denmark has similar new "rules".

by Liamvalid Djokovic giving an interview to the BBC now on the morning news. He’s saying that he is still unvaccinated, and he wants to speak out because of a lot of misinformation in the media. He’s saying he is not an “anti-vaxer” and wants to distance himself from that movement, but his decision not to get the vaccine is all about his decision making about being in tune with his own body, and he will not consider it in the future, even if that means missing out on entering more slams

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60354068

by meganfernandez
Liamvalid wrote:Djokovic giving an interview to the BBC now on the morning news. He’s saying that he is still unvaccinated, and he wants to speak out because of a lot of misinformation in the media. He’s saying he is not an “anti-vaxer” and wants to distance himself from that movement, but his decision not to get the vaccine is all about his decision making about being in tune with his own body, and he will not consider it in the future, even if that means missing out on entering more slams
That’s what I thought. Totally his prerogative… with attending consequences.


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by Liamvalid
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:46 am
Liamvalid wrote:Djokovic giving an interview to the BBC now on the morning news. He’s saying that he is still unvaccinated, and he wants to speak out because of a lot of misinformation in the media. He’s saying he is not an “anti-vaxer” and wants to distance himself from that movement, but his decision not to get the vaccine is all about his decision making about being in tune with his own body, and he will not consider it in the future, even if that means missing out on entering more slams
That’s what I thought. Totally his prerogative… with attending consequences.


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According to the article he should be ok for RG and Wimbledon given latest restrictions, but he will struggle to get into the US any time soon. I'm not sure i'm buying his statement about not being anti-vax either, it seems like he is just trying to get the public back on side

by atlpam Lots of restrictions being eased - it would not surprise me if this becomes a non-issue by the time the US Open rolls around.

by meganfernandez
Liamvalid wrote:
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:46 am
Liamvalid wrote:Djokovic giving an interview to the BBC now on the morning news. He’s saying that he is still unvaccinated, and he wants to speak out because of a lot of misinformation in the media. He’s saying he is not an “anti-vaxer” and wants to distance himself from that movement, but his decision not to get the vaccine is all about his decision making about being in tune with his own body, and he will not consider it in the future, even if that means missing out on entering more slams
That’s what I thought. Totally his prerogative… with attending consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
According to the article he should be ok for RG and Wimbledon given latest restrictions, but he will struggle to get into the US any time soon. I'm not sure i'm buying his statement about not being anti-vax either, it seems like he is just trying to get the public back on side
I meant that I believed he isn’t going to get the vaccinate and his belief is rooted in some very strong believes about his healthy and being in tune with his body, even if his beliefs amount to pseudoscience.

I believe he will still have to be in a bubble at RG and maybe Wimbledon, and test a lot. If I were these tournaments, I’d be tired of making special arrangements for a few people who are unvaccinated.


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by ponchi101 Problem is, as we all know, that he is defending champion at both.
While I agree with Suliso that mandates are being dropped, I believe that most of them are being dropped FOR vaccinated people. The openly un-vaccinated are pretty much at square one.
As we saw at the Aussie, the TOURNAMENT was more than willing to let him come in and play. It took the Govt to stop the nonsense. So, I don't see any reason to believe that the sole pimp in the circuit is Craig Tiley, and if you leave it to RG and Wimbledon, he will play, because these decisions always boil down to money. And both tournaments would rather have him than not, despite the evidence that they can have a great tournament without him.

by ponchi101
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:10 pm
I meant that I believed he isn’t going to get the vaccinate and his belief is rooted in some very strong believes about his healthy and being in tune with his body, even if his beliefs amount to pseudoscience.

I believe he will still have to be in a bubble at RG and maybe Wimbledon, and test a lot. If I were these tournaments, I’d be tired of making special arrangements for a few people who are unvaccinated.


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It is at the point that you can't even call it pseudoscience. By now, it is pseudoBS. BS covered with the slightest taint of technical jargon, but BS still.

by MJ2004 So the BBC interviews him and doesn’t question him on his positive test/ public appearances? Oh yeah, that’ll be Part II tomorrow.

#bs

by Liamvalid BBC have a half hour special on tonight at half 8 GMT

by MJ2004
MJ2004 wrote:So the BBC interviews him and doesn’t question him on his positive test/ public appearances? Oh yeah, that’ll be Part II tomorrow.

#bs
Liamvalid wrote:BBC have a half hour special on tonight at half 8 GMT
Scratch my comment then, I didn’t realize there’s actually more to come.

by ti-amie "I'm not an anti vaxxer, and I'll tell you why I'm an anti vaxxer".

by JazzNU It is so on brand for him to act like he's taking a strong stance after pulling out every single stop possible and greasing every palm he could in Serbia and Australia to get to play for #21. But now, sure, he's willing to give up slam titles if that's what has to happen, like he wasn't moving heaven and earth just a month ago to play a single slam.

by JazzNU

by JazzNU
MJ2004 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:18 pm
MJ2004 wrote:So the BBC interviews him and doesn’t question him on his positive test/ public appearances? Oh yeah, that’ll be Part II tomorrow.

#bs
Liamvalid wrote:BBC have a half hour special on tonight at half 8 GMT
Scratch my comment then, I didn’t realize there’s actually more to come.
Definitely keep your comment. All signs are pointing to this being an absolute puff piece.

by JazzNU



by Owendonovan Fox "news" will likely be offering him a show soon.

by MJ2004
JazzNU wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:18 am
MJ2004 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:18 pm
MJ2004 wrote:So the BBC interviews him and doesn’t question him on his positive test/ public appearances? Oh yeah, that’ll be Part II tomorrow.

#bs
Liamvalid wrote:BBC have a half hour special on tonight at half 8 GMT
Scratch my comment then, I didn’t realize there’s actually more to come.
Definitely keep your comment. All signs are pointing to this being an absolute puff piece.
Yeah, I didn't think it was fair to criticize the BBC until the full interview was released.

I don't have access to the full interview, but from the clips I saw, it was all puff. They did ask him about the test result being valid but didn't probe into the dates or numbers on the test results being out of order. I also have not seen any follow-up questions about why he was then out in public with kids, etc. I'm sure that was on the list of "non-allowed questions". :roll:

by ponchi101 The poor darling. The look of his colleagues, who did get vaccinated and complied with all requirements, and went to Australia well informed of the situation... maybe he can stand in front of them and "throw them his heart" to win them back.
About RyanAir. Ok, that is pretty funny. But why are they getting involved?

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:06 pm About RyanAir. Ok, that is pretty funny. But why are they getting involved?
It became a meme yesterday, people were mocking him for most of the day for that BS.

by ti-amie

by MJ2004

by JazzNU Alex de Minuar has apparently done too good of a job of making people think he's nothing but Australian. People are so suspicious of how he ended up at this one place getting investigated in Spain as if he would've had to go very far out of his way to find it. A shame he's found himself in this situation (I'm assuming he's telling the truth).

by dryrunguy If it turns out the hospital actually is providing fake vaccination cards, I'm not sure why he would think he actually received a real vaccine dose. I'm just sayin'... He doesn't say anything about a booster, either, but perhaps it's too soon for a booster. I like the kid and will take him at his word. But it's possible he's being a little naive.

by JazzNU
dryrunguy wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:44 pm If it turns out the hospital actually is providing fake vaccination cards, I'm not sure why he would think he actually received a real vaccine dose. I'm just sayin'... He doesn't say anything about a booster, either, but perhaps it's too soon for a booster. I like the kid and will take him at his word. But it's possible he's being a little naive.
Not sure how it works in Spain, but the grand majority of those supplying fake vaccination cards in the US have done so alongside issuing valid ones. That's part of the issue here, people who were thought to be trustworthy healthcare workers abused their positions for a side grift. Think of the case in Long Island recently with the two nurses and the cop husband, they had real vaccine doses and actual authority from the state to administer vaccines and they were doing that and then entering them into the state database. It just so happened they abused their positions.

Maybe it's different in Spain and other countries, but easy to imagine it's exactly the same.

As for Alex specifically, I think what he's really saying is, he went to a licensed place to get a vaccine and he knows that he didn't pay to get a fake vaccine card.

by ponchi101 So far in his career, no reason to believe he is not telling the truth.
How could he know if he did not get a real vaccine? To make things more complex: how about if you went in good faith to a reputable location, paid for a vaccine, got a real certificate, but the vaccine was nothing more than saline water? There were rumors of that happening in Venezuela (which is not Spain, I agree, but the option of logically possible).

by JTContinental At the same time, it is hard to think of a reason that a hospital would be administering fake vaccines/giving out fake cards to people who didn't ask for them.

by ponchi101 Again, I know Spain is not Venezuela, but in my little country, they were charging for the vaccines.
I know, we are a cesspool, but...

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:32 am Again, I know Spain is not Venezuela, but in my little country, they were charging for the vaccines.
I know, we are a cesspool, but...
I need to stop being surprised when you tell us these things about Venezuela. So, with the economic situation there, are there a sizable number of people that are unvaccinated that can't afford it rather than just don't want it?

by ponchi101 The people paying for vaccines was early in the pandemic. The Vennie government has gone with Russian vaccines for adults, and Chinese vaccines for children under 18, as they will not use anything from you evil gringos (other than your currency and visiting you every other weekend to have fun in Miami). After that initial scam, the Govt has been supplying more vaccines and they are for free.
My mom got an initial dose of Russian Sputnik V and after that she came down with it. It was when I went there and, honestly, as much as I would not like to give Vlad et al any credit for anything, we have the unconfirmed believe that the vaccine helped her not dying.
The distribution of vaccines got better with time and now it is not hard to get one. I am not sure if my family is already looking at booster shots, but I hope my sister is on top of that.
Last. Most people in Venezuela wanted and want to get vaccinated. No anti-vaxx movement there of any significant size (we have plenty of infections/tropical diseases to understand how beneficial vaccination is).

by ti-amie

Good on Bencic to admit this.

by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:24 pm
Good on Bencic to admit this.
Agreed. It's very clearly affected more than a few long-term and I can't remember anyone else giving voice to it.

by ti-amie

by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:34 pm
I've had a soft spot for Flipkens ever since I talked with her at a Junior tournament almost 20 years ago. At the Junior tournament, I saw her watching a pro tournament on the TV there, and I said to her, pointing at the TV, "You're going to be there in a few years."
She said "Me? No - I'm not good enough for that."
I told her that, from what I had seen of her, she IS good enough to make it - and we had a little conversation where I encouraged her to reach for her potential.

Her singles career didn't pan out quite as well as I hoped - though she did make it to the Semis at Wimbledon in 2013. And she's had a very respectable doubles career.
At 36 years old, she's likely close to retirement now... but I'll always remember her as the humble yet talented teenager that I had that conversation with almost 20 years ago...

by ponchi101 Krecjikova tested positive for C19. Has to withdraw from the doubles at RG too.
Talk about a lousy week :(

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:46 pm Krecjikova tested positive for C19. Has to withdraw from the doubles at RG too.
Talk about a lousy week :(
Wow, that is rough. Hopefully she'll feel better in a few days and can continue to rehab her injury.

by Deuce It's tough for Siniakova, as well... she lost to Leylah yesterday on the court, and lost the opportunity to defend their doubles title without even taking to the court.
Both in the same day.
Not fun...

by Deuce Marie Bouzkova also tested positive for COVID-19, and has also been removed from the singles and doubles draws.

And, by the way... this virus isn't finished yet.

by ti-amie
Deuce wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:08 am Marie Bouzkova also tested positive for COVID-19, and has also been removed from the singles and doubles draws.

And, by the way... this virus isn't finished yet.
Shush! We're pretending that it is!

by ponchi101 ESPN reporting that Cilic has withdrawn from Wimbledon due to C19.

by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:14 pm ESPN reporting that Cilic has withdrawn from Wimbledon due to C19.
That's a damn shame, especially given his more recent form.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 Especially after such a good RG, having to miss one slam that suits his game so well.
If I were any of the top contenders, I would self isolate too. Imagine coming down with this crap like Wednesday next week.

by mmmm8 He had reportedly practiced with Djokovic in the last days.

by meganfernandez
mmmm8 wrote:He had reportedly practiced with Djokovic in the last days.
And Djokovic reportedly didn’t look well during his first-round win. Low energy. ???


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by ponchi101 Berrettini out with C19 too.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:19 pm Berrettini out with C19 too.
This is a really tough one. Actually a lot of players so far are exiting with Covid.

by ponchi101
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:32 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:19 pm Berrettini out with C19 too.
This is a really tough one. Actually a lot of players so far are exiting with Covid.
Cilic and Berrettini. Who else have you heard?
(Or is it just players whose names start with MA?)

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:34 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:32 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:19 pm Berrettini out with C19 too.
This is a really tough one. Actually a lot of players so far are exiting with Covid.
Cilic and Berrettini. Who else have you heard?
(Or is it just players whose names start with MA?)
Maybe I was mistaken that the others has left because of injuries.

by ponchi101 Just that the news are coming out very fast. Maybe there were others, or maybe there WILL BE others.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:45 pm Just that the news are coming out very fast. Maybe there were others, or maybe there WILL BE others.
I hope not. I hate Covid. It is scary and it screwed up my 9th grade tennis year when that school tennis year was cancelled. That year of school altogether was a complete mess having to do school online and it being my first year in high school that year.

by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:45 pm Just that the news are coming out very fast. Maybe there were others, or maybe there WILL BE others.
We might find out who's been hooking up with Berrettini. :) Is it Xinyu Wang? She just withdrew, but don't know why.

by ponchi101 Problem is that we have seen the videos. Yesterday somebody posted one of Serena running into Rafa, and surrounded by the other players. So, knowing that the lockers at the AELTC are, let's say, rather intimate, it could spread. Let's hope not, of course, but the new variants are so contagious...

by Cuckoo4Coco That would be awful. Not sure if players are wearing masks while in the locker rooms , but I doubt it. It doesn't look like any of the fans are wearing them probably because it is outside. I don't know what the restrictions are in England.

by Suliso No restrictions whatsoever in England.

by JazzNU Feel awful for Matteo. To look so good so soon coming back from an injury that took you out for months only to have this happen, really sucks. He was my pick to win it. A tough break for sure, maybe next year his luck will turn around.

by ponchi101 Silently, he has been having some bad luck. Several injuries, now this. Broke up with Ajla. It has been a bit topsy turvy, for sure.

by ponchi101 Ok, this is getting serious:
Tennis: "There was a Covid epidemic at Roland-Garros and no one talked about it", says Alizé Cornet

The original news is from L'equipe, which is very respected. That link is in French.

by Suliso Believable. If there was a lot of money on the line most of us would probably not test either.

by ponchi101 Sure. I would test myself privately but, if showing no symptoms, I would most likely keep it quiet.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:47 pm Sure. I would test myself privately but, if showing no symptoms, I would most likely keep it quiet.
Even if the test came out positive?

by ponchi101 How I wish I could say I am a man of integrity and impeccable morals.
But I have never seen 70,000 Euros just to play one match (RG 1r losers' prize), nor I have never dedicated my life to such an endeavor in which playing such a match could be a dream opportunity.
I really would not know what to do if the test came positive AND I were not showing symptoms.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:57 pm How I wish I could say I am a man of integrity and impeccable morals.
But I have never seen 70,000 Euros just to play one match (RG 1r losers' prize), nor I have never dedicated my life to such an endeavor in which playing such a match could be a dream opportunity.
I really would not know what to do if the test came positive AND I were not showing symptoms.
I do understand that. It is a ton of money for sure. I just don't know how I would deal with myself if others started getting sick. Really tough.

by Suliso To not get into such moral issues the solution is to not test unless there are some serious symptoms (more than coughing or a congested nose).

by ponchi101
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:57 pm How I wish I could say I am a man of integrity and impeccable morals.
But I have never seen 70,000 Euros just to play one match (RG 1r losers' prize), nor I have never dedicated my life to such an endeavor in which playing such a match could be a dream opportunity.
I really would not know what to do if the test came positive AND I were not showing symptoms.
I do understand that. It is a ton of money for sure. I just don't know how I would deal with myself if others started getting sick. Really tough.
And don't get me wrong. The clear path would be to take yourself out. But, if asymptomatic, the little bug in your ear telling you "you are surrounded by a lot of very low risk people" would not be completely silent.
It would be a terrible position. But, as Suliso says, the pragmatic solution would be not to test yourself, and only do so if symptoms would develop.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:23 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:57 pm How I wish I could say I am a man of integrity and impeccable morals.
But I have never seen 70,000 Euros just to play one match (RG 1r losers' prize), nor I have never dedicated my life to such an endeavor in which playing such a match could be a dream opportunity.
I really would not know what to do if the test came positive AND I were not showing symptoms.
I do understand that. It is a ton of money for sure. I just don't know how I would deal with myself if others started getting sick. Really tough.
And don't get me wrong. The clear path would be to take yourself out. But, if asymptomatic, the little bug in your ear telling you "you are surrounded by a lot of very low risk people" would not be completely silent.
It would be a terrible position. But, as Suliso says, the pragmatic solution would be not to test yourself, and only do so if symptoms would develop.
Yeah, just not to know would be the best way to keep it unless you were having symptoms of course.

by Deuce
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:23 pm
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:05 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:57 pm How I wish I could say I am a man of integrity and impeccable morals.
But I have never seen 70,000 Euros just to play one match (RG 1r losers' prize), nor I have never dedicated my life to such an endeavor in which playing such a match could be a dream opportunity.
I really would not know what to do if the test came positive AND I were not showing symptoms.
I do understand that. It is a ton of money for sure. I just don't know how I would deal with myself if others started getting sick. Really tough.
And don't get me wrong. The clear path would be to take yourself out. But, if asymptomatic, the little bug in your ear telling you "you are surrounded by a lot of very low risk people" would not be completely silent.
It would be a terrible position. But, as Suliso says, the pragmatic solution would be not to test yourself, and only do so if symptoms would develop.
Yeah... and these 'low risk people' who contract it from you then go on to spread it to their grandmother who's visiting to watch them play, etc. :roll:

The ONLY thing to do if one tests positive is to be honest and upfront about it and pull out and isolate.

by ti-amie Quentin Moynet
@QuentinMoynet
"À Roland, il y a eu une épidémie de Covid, personne n'en a parlé. Dans les vestiaires, tout le monde l'a eu et on n'a rien dit (...) Je pense que c'est un accord tacite entre nous. On ne va pas s'autotester pour se mettre dans la merde !"

Translated from French by Google

"At Roland there was a Covid epidemic, nobody talked about it. In the locker room everyone had it and we didn't say anything (...) I think it's a tacit agreement between us. We're not going to test ourselves to get ourselves into trouble!"

The above is from Alizé Cornet

by Deuce The link to the Cornet article a few posts above (post #843) is difficult to read, as it seems to be a (rather poor) translation.
I found this link to an article about the issue written in proper English...

What she reveals reeks of utter selfishness from the players.

Cornet Reveals "Everyone Had COVID-19" at Roland Garros...

.

by ashkor87
Deuce wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:20 am The link to the Cornet article a few posts above (post #843) is difficult to read, as it seems to be a (rather poor) translation.
I found this link to an article about the issue written in proper English...

What she reveals reeks of utter selfishness from the players.

Cornet Reveals "Everyone Had COVID-19" at Roland Garros...

.
whatever one may feel about this, it certainly highlights the hypocrisy around banning Djokovic..!

by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:28 am
Deuce wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:20 am The link to the Cornet article a few posts above (post #843) is difficult to read, as it seems to be a (rather poor) translation.
I found this link to an article about the issue written in proper English...

What she reveals reeks of utter selfishness from the players.

Cornet Reveals "Everyone Had COVID-19" at Roland Garros...

.
whatever one may feel about this, it certainly highlights the hypocrisy around banning Djokovic..!
I don't see it exactly that way...
The players are not the ones who banned Djokovic - the Australian government did that (in a very dysfunctional manner). Granted, most of the players at that time said that they supported banning players who refuse to get vaccinated - and so I guess one could see hypocrisy in that those players have now conspired to keep their dirty little COVID secret hidden from others.

I expected more from Cornet. She is one of the veterans on the tour... Leylah said she was really the only one who made her feel welcome on the tour... She's a mentor of sorts... And then she's part of this conspiracy to hide COVID cases.
Not exactly a great role model for the young ones - encouraging them to manipulate and deceive...

by ashkor87 my point is - if the tournaments are really concerned about the health of players and everyone around them, they should test everyone every day. Granted, Wimbledon is not making any such claim. But the players who were so self-righteous when it came to Djokovic.. why are they now resorting to Omerta?

by ponchi101 RG had a different criteria than the Aussie open, and the EU/France had a different criteria than Australia for entry. Sure, Alize opened a stinking can of worms because there is no reason to not believe her (some other players should confirm the story, but by now, I wonder who would) and if all players agreed to a policy of "don't test, don't tell", the tours have to address it.
As for Djokovic. We know that this may be his last slam of the year because the USA seems nowhere near relaxing the entry requirement, for foreigners, to be vaccinated. He has made it clear he won't, so the USO is off limits. His decision.

by ponchi101 Bautista Agut withdraws with C19.
And takes out a huge bandwagon of the SP.
He showed symptoms and was feeling not well.

by ti-amie

by ponchi101 McEnroe calls for special dispensation for Djokovic to play at the USO:
John McEnroe calls for 'ridiculous' US vaccine laws to be relaxed for Novak Djokovic

It is a human trait, definitely. The moment something affects you or a person close to you (and Mac is very friendly with Novak), you no longer can make a proper call.
Gee, if only there was a solution for Djokovic to play the N. American circuit. But I can't think of ANY way that he could. None.

by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:00 pm McEnroe calls for special dispensation for Djokovic to play at the USO:
John McEnroe calls for 'ridiculous' US vaccine laws to be relaxed for Novak Djokovic

It is a human trait, definitely. The moment something affects you or a person close to you (and Mac is very friendly with Novak), you no longer can make a proper call.
Gee, if only there was a solution for Djokovic to play the N. American circuit. But I can't think of ANY way that he could. None.
The ball is in Novak's court on this and he has all the control to end all of this. Get the jab and play or don't get the jab and risk the chances of playing in tournaments. All up to him.