Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

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meganfernandez United States of America
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#256

Post by meganfernandez »

AcesAnnie wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:51 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:18 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:09 pm

Yes.
Certain countries seems to bring out the flags more than others. I see Argentinian and Serbian flags more than Spanish, French, American, German...
I don't mind the flags at all in support of the players. Like you stated and I failed to see originally the Ukrainian flag that was in the stands was not in support of a player on that day. It was in support of the protest of the war. I am all for people hanging the Ukrainian flag to support them in this war, but you are correct this event and certainly not court side where two Russian players are playing a tennis match is the place for a such protest.

Walking around the event with the flag wrapped around yourself, I have no problem at all. Sitting in the stands where a Ukrainian player is playing a match, no problem with that.
Same!
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#257

Post by AcesAnnie »

I wonder how a fan would be treated if they would come in support of Daniil Medvedev wrapped in a Russian flag? I would hope the fan would not be harassed by other fans, or also be asked to remove the flag in support of the player. I have my doubts though, because the tennis tour has already removed all Russian flag symbols next to the Russian players names. All sports have actually done that with Russian Athletes.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#258

Post by ponchi101 »

If a fan comes to cheer on Medvedev with a Russian flag wrapped around him/her, let them. That is the point.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#259

Post by Deuce »

I still feel that what the tournament people (chair umpire, security personnel) did in telling 'Lola' that she is not allowed to sit there quietly wrapped in a Ukrainian flag is significantly worse than Lola sitting there quietly wrapped in the Ukrainian flag.
If the Russian player - or players - was/were 'uncomfortable' with that, so be it. They have the choice to be uncomfortable, or to ignore it.

Part of life is being uncomfortable with certain things, and it's unrealistic and very unfair (and arrogant) to expect other people to cater to you at all times and ensure that you are always 'comfortable'. Discomforts happen to everyone every day. It's up to each person to learn to deal with them - because eliminating everything that makes us uncomfortable is extremely unrealistic.

Now... speaking of flags...
'Dr. Lou' was the ultimate tennis 'flag man'. I met him a few times - he was a pure character!
Wertheim wrote a really good article about him a while ago - but it's no longer available for some reason.
In its place, I offer this article...

'Dr. Lou'...

.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#260

Post by AcesAnnie »

ponchi101 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:38 pm If a fan comes to cheer on Medvedev with a Russian flag wrapped around him/her, let them. That is the point.
But sadly that isn't the point. Things get way too political with people, and I feel it would with that.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#261

Post by Irena2 »

Deuce wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:05 pm
Now... speaking of flags...
'Dr. Lou' was the ultimate tennis 'flag man'. I met him a few times - he was a pure character!
Wertheim wrote a really good article about him a while ago - but it's no longer available for some reason.
In its place, I offer this article...

'Dr. Lou'...

.
Dr Lou! I remember him! I sat next to him a coupla times at matches and on the train once heading back to the city. He was an interesting guy. Thanks for the article!
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#262

Post by Deuce »

Irena2 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:42 am
Deuce wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:05 pm
Now... speaking of flags...
'Dr. Lou' was the ultimate tennis 'flag man'. I met him a few times - he was a pure character!
Wertheim wrote a really good article about him a while ago - but it's no longer available for some reason.
In its place, I offer this article...

'Dr. Lou'...

.
Dr Lou! I remember him! I sat next to him a coupla times at matches and on the train once heading back to the city. He was an interesting guy. Thanks for the article!
Yes - the definition of a genuine character. Official member of the ATP (Association of Tennis Psychologists - he was the only member!).
Great entertainer at tennis tournaments... but I'm not sure I could endure a train ride of over 20 minutes with him!
R.I.P. Amal...
"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." ~ Oscar Wilde
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#263

Post by FredX »

meganfernandez wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:56 pm
AcesAnnie wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:41 pm
FredX wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:36 pm

This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.
This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.
It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.
Of course the flag of a player on the court wouldn't have been an issue. The issue here was that it wasn't supporting either player. I don't think it's fair to say "what the Russian players should have done" or "should have felt." We aren't in their shoes. We don't know what they're going through as individuals or players. They were just banned from that biggest tournament in the world. You don't think someone (esp someone young, not a lot of life experience) might feel a little persecuted by tennis? I could see that. For me, only individuals determine what should and should not bother them in this very personal situation that I, for one, cannot fathom.

Disagree we would have heard about every little aggression, macro or micro, that has happened to a player. Very likely people would want to downplay it. It's embarrassing, and they're not exactly sympathetic figures.

People tend to judge when they should be inferring. Here, I infer that it was upsetting to the Russian players and that's very likely a reasonable reaction since they have been going though something I cannot possibly understand.

Was it the right call? Probably not. But were the players oversensitive babies and agents of oppression? Not in my book.
[/quote]

For what it's worth, here's the list of prohibited items at the U.S., which includes "flags and signs", as well as an "elastic clause" at the end that lets staff ban anything they "deem inappropriate". Not sure what the issue with flags is, whether they don't want it to turn into some sort football hooliganism or they're just large and distracting, but I did see a woman told to put her Union Jack flag away during a Tim Henman match way back when. But you do see them, and obviously plenty of signs.

Prohibited Items
The following items are prohibited and MAY NOT be brought onto the premises:

Backpacks (Exception: single compartment drawstring bags)
Hard coolers or like containers
Sealed packages of any kind
Glass bottles or cans (Exception: reusable water bottles-24 oz. or less, metal and plastic)
Aerosol cans or noise-making devices
Alcohol
Video cameras or recording devices (Exception: cell phones and SLR cameras, with lenses up to and not exceeding 300mm, with video or recording capabilities)
Computers or laptops
Weapons (regardless of permit)
Animals (Exception: service animals)
Flags, banners or signs
Any materials, items or apparel constituting unauthorized advertising or promotion
Laser pointing devices
Tennis racquets
Drones (UAS-Unmanned Aircraft Systems) or other model aircraft
Selfie-sticks or other telescopic devices
Any other items deemed dangerous or inappropriate by US Open personnel, in their sole discretion
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#264

Post by meganfernandez »

FredX wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 am For what it's worth, here's the list of prohibited items at the U.S., which includes "flags and signs", as well as an "elastic clause" at the end that lets staff ban anything they "deem inappropriate". Not sure what the issue with flags is, whether they don't want it to turn into some sort football hooliganism or they're just large and distracting, but I did see a woman told to put her Union Jack flag away during a Tim Henman match way back when. But you do see them, and obviously plenty of signs.

Prohibited Items
The following items are prohibited and MAY NOT be brought onto the premises:

Flags, banners or signs
[deleting a bunch of stuff for space]
There have been plenty of flags in Cincinnati, though. Many, many. On Center Court, on the grounds...unless this is a brand-new rule, they don't enforce this consistently.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#265

Post by AcesAnnie »

meganfernandez wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:18 pm
FredX wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 am For what it's worth, here's the list of prohibited items at the U.S., which includes "flags and signs", as well as an "elastic clause" at the end that lets staff ban anything they "deem inappropriate". Not sure what the issue with flags is, whether they don't want it to turn into some sort football hooliganism or they're just large and distracting, but I did see a woman told to put her Union Jack flag away during a Tim Henman match way back when. But you do see them, and obviously plenty of signs.

Prohibited Items
The following items are prohibited and MAY NOT be brought onto the premises:

Flags, banners or signs
[deleting a bunch of stuff for space]
There have been plenty of flags in Cincinnati, though. Many, many. On Center Court, on the grounds...unless this is a brand-new rule, they don't enforce this consistently.
I've seen them with my own two eyes on the TV. It was enforced that day, first because it was brought up by the players which was okay. Then it was also enforced because of what countries flag it was while the lady was walking the grounds outside the courts. They can say all they want it was because of the size of the flag, but that was definitely not the case. It was because of what country the flag represented. If the flag was any other country, this lady would not have been approached.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#266

Post by ti-amie »

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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#267

Post by Deuce »

FredX wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 am For what it's worth, here's the list of prohibited items at the U.S., which includes "flags and signs", as well as an "elastic clause" at the end that lets staff ban anything they "deem inappropriate". Not sure what the issue with flags is, whether they don't want it to turn into some sort football hooliganism or they're just large and distracting, but I did see a woman told to put her Union Jack flag away during a Tim Henman match way back when. But you do see them, and obviously plenty of signs.

Prohibited Items
The following items are prohibited and MAY NOT be brought onto the premises:

Backpacks (Exception: single compartment drawstring bags)
Hard coolers or like containers
Sealed packages of any kind
Glass bottles or cans (Exception: reusable water bottles-24 oz. or less, metal and plastic)
Aerosol cans or noise-making devices
Alcohol
Video cameras or recording devices (Exception: cell phones and SLR cameras, with lenses up to and not exceeding 300mm, with video or recording capabilities)
Computers or laptops
Weapons (regardless of permit)
Animals (Exception: service animals)
Flags, banners or signs
Any materials, items or apparel constituting unauthorized advertising or promotion
Laser pointing devices
Tennis racquets
Drones (UAS-Unmanned Aircraft Systems) or other model aircraft
Selfie-sticks or other telescopic devices
Any other items deemed dangerous or inappropriate by US Open personnel, in their sole discretion
^ As foolish as that list is, the last thing mentioned is the most serious. It basically means that a random 'security person' can deny you entry for any reason he/she wants.
This is where I usually mention something about the irony of the claim to be the 'land of the free'... Sigh...

Half of those items ^ can be purchased on site! Beverage cans, bags, racquets, etc. are for sale on site.
Pretty soon, fans will only be able to attend tennis tournaments entirely naked - and even then, will be subject to 'cavity searches'!
It's completely ridiculous.
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#268

Post by ti-amie »

Tennis ball gate rages on.

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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#269

Post by Deuce »

ti-amie wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:46 pm Tennis ball gate rages on.

Yes, they are different balls for the men and for the women, and have been so for a while now. And of course the two balls will play significantly differently.
Were they changed to be more different recently? I don't know - but I would tend to doubt it.

Regarding the difference in seam size - the seams are the same size, but there's more felt on the men's ball, and so that extra felt hides part of the seam, making it appear as if the women's ball has a wider seam.
R.I.P. Amal...
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Re: Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

#270

Post by AcesAnnie »

Deuce wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:33 pm
ti-amie wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:46 pm Tennis ball gate rages on.

Yes, they are different balls for the men and for the women, and have been so for a while now. And of course the two balls will play significantly differently.
Were they changed to be more different recently? I don't know - but I would tend to doubt it.

Regarding the difference in seam size - the seams are the same size, but there's more felt on the men's ball, and so that extra felt hides part of the seam, making it appear as if the women's ball has a wider seam.
There are different balls for the men and the women? Is there a specific reasoning for this? I imagine the balls do not play any differently. So why make the balls different?
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