by ti-amie FYI the entry lists were supposed to be released on May 16. So far nothing.
by ponchi101 They are still mulling over how to extricate themselves from the Bela/Russian ban mess?
by JazzNU
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 10:30 pm
They are still mulling over how to extricate themselves from the Bela/Russian ban mess?
Very well might be. Look at how much those players aren't a focus at RG. Wimbledon could've had that too.
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:They are still mulling over how to extricate themselves from the Bela/Russian ban mess?
Tennis Podcast people (who are British) say it’s not over. Said Wimbledon officials are in Paris for more discussions, probably about freezing 2021 points.
But I don’t think that equates to extricating themselves from the mess. They are trying to snuff out the “exhibition” thing.
by ponchi101 But it is Wimbledon. They will never, never, come around and say "We have heard the opinions of all people involved, and we accept that out initial proposal was not the best one".
No, they will stick to their dumb decision because, one of Wimbledon's traditions is that they are never wrong.
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:But it is Wimbledon. They will never, never, come around and say "We have heard the opinions of all people involved, and we accept that out initial proposal was not the best one".
No, they will stick to their dumb decision because, one of Wimbledon's traditions is that they are never wrong.
Probably not. They are doing damage control now.
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by ti-amieATP Main Draw Entry Lists
Entries
Seed* Name Current Ranking Entry Ranking
1 Novak Djokovic 1 1
2 Alexander Zverev 3 3
3 Stefanos Tsitsipas 4 4
4 Rafael Nadal 5 5
5 Carlos Alcaraz 6 6
6 Casper Ruud 8 8
7 Felix Auger-Aliassime 9 9
8 Matteo Berrettini 10 10
9 Cameron Norrie 11 11
10 Jannik Sinner 12 12
11 Hubert Hurkacz 13 13
12 Taylor Fritz 14 14
13 Denis Shapovalov 15 15
14 Diego Schwartzman 16 16
15 Reilly Opelka 17 18
16 Pablo Carreno Busta 18 17
17 Roberto Bautista Agut 19 19
18 Alex de Minaur 20 21
19 Grigor Dimitrov 21 20
20 Gael Monfils 22 22
21 Marin Cilic 23 23
22 Nikoloz Basilashvili 24 25
23 John Isner 26 26
24 Frances Tiafoe 27 27
25 Alejandro Davidovich Fokina 28 28
26 Botic van de Zandschulp 29 29
27 Sebastian Korda 30 30
28 Miomir Kecmanovic 31 31
29 Daniel Evans 32 32
30 Tommy Paul 33 33
31 Jenson Brooksby 34 34
32 Lorenzo Sonego 35 35
Sebastian Baez 36 38
Cristian Garin 37 36
Alex Molcan 38 47
Holger Rune 40 40
Alexander Bublik 42 41
Pedro Martinez 43 43
Albert Ramos-Vinolas 44 42
Francisco Cerundolo 45 44
Ugo Humbert 46 45
David Goffin 48 48
Marcos Giron 49 49
Fabio Fognini 51 52
Benjamin Bonzi 52 53
Daniel Altmaier 53 54
Federico Coria 54 59
Filip Krajinovic 55 56
Laslo Djere 56 51
Marton Fucsovics 57 55
Tallon Griekspoor 58 64
Oscar Otte 59 60
Mackenzie McDonald 60 58
Emil Ruusuvuori 61 61
Maxime Cressy 62 63
Joao Sousa 63 79
Dusan Lajovic 64 66
Federico Delbonis 65 62
Lorenzo Musetti 66 57
Andy Murray 67 69
Arthur Rinderknech 68 65
Adrian Mannarino 69 73
Richard Gasquet 70 75
Soonwoo Kwon 71 71
James Duckworth 72 70
Jiri Vesely 73 72
Hugo Gaston 74 68
Brandon Nakashima 75 74
Nick Kyrgios 76 76
Jiri Lehecka 77 77
Benoit Paire 78 67
Kamil Majchrzak 79 81
Alejandro Tabilo 80 78
Denis Kudla 81 80
Jordan Thompson 82 82
Quentin Halys 84 86
Carlos Taberner 85 88
Thanasi Kokkinakis 86 85
Jaume Munar 87 91
Tomas Martin Etcheverry 88 90
Roberto Carballes Baena 89 102
Hugo Dellien 90 87
John Millman 91 93
Steve Johnson 92 92
Dominik Koepfer 93 89
Peter Gojowczyk 94 97
Mikael Ymer 95 96
Henri Laaksonen 96 95
Jan-Lennard Struff 97 99
Pablo Andujar 98 83
Yoshihito Nishioka 99 94
Thiago Monteiro 100 100
Ricardas Berankis 101 101
Alexei Popyrin 102 103
Facundo Bagnis 103 98
Sam Querrey 104 107
Jack Draper 105 106
Daniel Elahi Galan 106 108
Fernando Verdasco 107 109
Taro Daniel 114 105
Dominic Thiem 189 6 (PR)
Aljaz Bedene 194 75 (PR)
Attila Balazs 261 101 (PR)
Borna Coric 278 27 (PR)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(WC)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
(Q)
Alternates
Name Current Ranking Entry Ranking
1 Chun-hsin Tseng 108 110
2 Feliciano Lopez 113 111
3 Radu Albot 117 112
4 Jack Sock 109 113
5 Yannick Hanfmann 110 114
6 Norbert Gombos 111 115
7 Stefan Kozlov 112 116
8 Mats Moraing 115 117
9 Pablo Cuevas 148 118
10 Marc-Andrea Huesler 119 120
11 Stefano Travaglia 120 121
12 Juan Pablo Varillas 121 122
13 Aleksandar Vukic 122 123
14 Christopher O'Connell 116 124
15 Guido Pella 123 125
16 Nuno Borges 134 126
17 Jurij Rodionov 124 127
18 Yuki Bhambri 631 127 (PR)
19 J.J. Wolf 125 128
20 Elias Ymer 126 129
by JazzNU Did Wimbledon give an explanation for why they released the entry lists 3 weeks later than the scheduled date or did they put them out like they were on time and no explanation was required? I'm guessing the latter, but given how late they were I thought maybe they were forced to put out a statement.
by Deuce I hope everyone withdraws the day before play begins.
by martini4me What is the point of putting a "seed" number beside the first 32 players? That won't (necessarily) be their seeding, it's their ranking at the moment.
by ti-amie
JazzNU wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:44 pm
Did Wimbledon give an explanation for why they released the entry lists 3 weeks later than the scheduled date or did they put them out like they were on time and no explanation was required? I'm guessing the latter, but given how late they were I thought maybe they were forced to put out a statement.
AFAIK no statement has been made. After all it's the AELTC and the LTA. They don't have to explain anything.
by oliver0001 Once again neither of the Williams sisters on the entry lists. I wonder whether they will ever play again. Funny sidenote: just like Wimbledon, they don't seem to explain their decisions...
by ashkor87 Leylah not playing? injury more serious than it seemed? would be sad because I had tentatively picked her as favorite for Wimbledon..!
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:53 am
Leylah not playing? injury more serious than it seemed? would be sad because I had tentatively picked her as favorite for Wimbledon..!
Check the 'Injury and Illness' topic - 2 posts there about Leylah.
by ashkor87 one early indicator is - who is a natural grass-court player but has played better than expected on clay? that person is in form, mwy do very well when the conidtions also suit him/her.. so on the Men's side, I would have said Medvedev, on the women's, Leylah.. sadly, neither is playing!
so who is left?
Cilic and Bencic, perhaps
by meganfernandez
oliver0001 wrote:Once again neither of the Williams sisters on the entry lists. I wonder whether they will ever play again. Funny sidenote: just like Wimbledon, they don't seem to explain their decisions...
My guess is no but I’d think Venus is more likely than Serena, because she plays for the love of competition. Serena has been playing only for the record and I doubt she is motivated anymore
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by ponchi101
martini4me wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:14 am
What is the point of putting a "seed" number beside the first 32 players? That won't (necessarily) be their seeding, it's their ranking at the moment.
Probably somebody just doing a quick COPY/PASTE job on the fly.
oliver0001 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:22 am
Once again neither of the Williams sisters on the entry lists. I wonder whether they will ever play again. Funny sidenote: just like Wimbledon, they don't seem to explain their decisions...
They still have time. I am sure that if either Williams decides to play just a few days before the tournament starts, the Wild Cards will be available. And rightly so.
by JazzNU
oliver0001 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:22 am
Once again neither of the Williams sisters on the entry lists. I wonder whether they will ever play again. Funny sidenote: just like Wimbledon, they don't seem to explain their decisions...
Not that funny. Unlike Wimbledon, they don't owe anyone an explanation and aren't running a tournament in 3 weeks and missing preset dates for providing event information.
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:23 am
one early indicator is - who is a natural grass-court player but has played better than expected on clay? that person is in form, mwy do very well when the conidtions also suit him/her.. so on the Men's side, I would have said Medvedev, on the women's, Leylah.. sadly, neither is playing!
so who is left?
Cilic and Bencic, perhaps
Leylah doesn't have much experience on grass.
I suppose no-one who's been a pro for less than 10 years really has much experience on grass, due to the shortness of the season and the rarity of grass courts around the world...
I don't think Leylah played any grass court tournaments in her last year in Juniors (2019)... then 2020 was out because of COVID-19... so she has only a little bit last year as recent experience on grass.
by ponchi101
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:23 am
one early indicator is - who is a natural grass-court player but has played better than expected on clay? that person is in form, mwy do very well when the conidtions also suit him/her.. so on the Men's side, I would have said Medvedev, on the women's, Leylah.. sadly, neither is playing!
so who is left?
Cilic and Bencic, perhaps
Nobody fits that description. People that come to mind as "good" grass players did not do well during the clay season. Shapo did poorly, and he seems to like grass. Hurkacz may be a factor, with a bit of extra experience.
You are correct that Medvedev could do well, but he won't play. On the women's side, if RG was basically a non-ending trick question, who knows what grass will do to that lot. I say Kontaveit will do a bit better than her last months, and even that may be a stretch.
by ashkor87 I agree..Hurkacz and Kontaveit will do well...
by ashkor87
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:23 am
one early indicator is - who is a natural grass-court player but has played better than expected on clay? that person is in form, mwy do very well when the conidtions also suit him/her.. so on the Men's side, I would have said Medvedev, on the women's, Leylah.. sadly, neither is playing!
so who is left?
Cilic and Bencic, perhaps
maybe FAA is one player who did better than expected on clay and is a natural fast-court player.. Sinner is another, assuming he is fit and well.. Coco too, actually - not a natural clay-courter, and Sloane..I never think of her as a clay court player, her speed and footwork and reflexes are more of a fast-court player's arsenal - unlike most people, I do think of Madison as a good clay-courter, mainly because on offense, she has the power and on defense, she is a bit slow of foot, which doesnt hurt her as much on clay..so I dont expect her to do better on grass than on clay - the opposite, if anything!
by ponchi101 The problem with Maddie is her inconsistency. She is not a player that improvises well; she improvises, but usually it is not for a happy ending. Shots wise, she should have won a slam already. But there is something else that makes her so unpredictable.
by ashkor87
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:15 pm
The problem with Maddie is her inconsistency. She is not a player that improvises well; she improvises, but usually it is not for a happy ending. Shots wise, she should have won a slam already. But there is something else that makes her so unpredictable.
Her footwork is not good enough...
by ti-amie
by ponchi101 Let's hope his doctor can work at least one more miracle.
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:Let's hope his doctor can work at least one more miracle.
I can’t imagine getting injections into the nerve every day. Murder.
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by Owendonovan Weird to me how Bouchard just kinda creeps around the fringes of direct entry.
by meganfernandez
Owendonovan wrote:Weird to me how Bouchard just kinda creeps around the fringes of direct entry.
And wild card relevance. I bet she would still get a WC to some 500s and 250s. She’s not playing these days, right?
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by Owendonovan She's got a protected ranking of 118, but I don't think she actually plays anymore (or has any real ranking points).
by ponchi101 One of the weirdest cases ever in tennis. She did not make one good slam appearance. 2 SF, 1 F, 1QF, all in one year. It seemed that she was the real deal.
I would love to know what somebody like Navs or Evert or Carillo thinks about what happened to her game.
by ashkor87 She fell and hit her head!
by ponchi101 I know, but that was after she had already FALLEN (in the rankings) and was already pretty much a non-factor.
Really, remember. She was playing very good tennis, she had strokes and she was accurate. How did it vanish so fast, so early?
by ponchi101 The picture for Wimbledon.
#1 ranked player won't play because he is banned.
#2 will not play because he is injured.
#3, and defending champion, will play.
#4 was seen on June 8th coming out of a clinic on crutches, after some treatment on his chronically injured foot.
#5 really has never proven himself on grass. Same for #6 and #7.
#8 won't play for the same ban as #1.
The ATP will not give points for the event, which means that some players will decide to not go and instead play some of the smaller tournaments held during the second week.
Yep, sounds about right...
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:27 pm
I know, but that was after she had already FALLEN (in the rankings) and was already pretty much a non-factor.
Really, remember. She was playing very good tennis, she had strokes and she was accurate. How did it vanish so fast, so early?
Yeah, she had a slump after 2014, but when she hit her head at the US Open, she was finding her form again. I remember it so clearly. She was actually having a good tournament, a sorely needed good result. That's part of what made it so unfortunate. Would she have kept it up? Who knows.
One of her former coaches said on a podcast that she didn't train very hard with him. Lots of off days.
I guess a lot of players are the real deal, tennis-wise, but not everyone wants to do what it takes to max out their potential. I say that without any judgment. It's hard. She had a decent career but left some stuff on the table.
by ashkor87 She always looked a little mechanical and awkward to me, but then so did Sharapova..but it is a pity..always, when a good player goes off like that ..
Sam Querrey 107 104 To MD
Daniel Elahi Galan 108 106 To MD
Taro Daniel 109 114 To MD
Egor Gerasimov 149 144
Alexander Shevchenko 237 234
by ponchi101 A bit insulting to place the Russians in the "withdrawal" list. Call it what it is. "Not accepted". Withdrawal sounds as if it is their decision.
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:A bit insulting to place the Russians in the "withdrawal" list. Call it what it is. "Not accepted". Withdrawal sounds as if it is their decision.
“Screwed Over” list
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by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:She always looked a little mechanical and awkward to me, but then so did Sharapova..but it is a pity..always, when a good player goes off like that ..
Same. I never liked watching Bouchard play. Torquey or wooden forehand.
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:27 pm
I know, but that was after she had already FALLEN (in the rankings) and was already pretty much a non-factor.
Really, remember. She was playing very good tennis, she had strokes and she was accurate. How did it vanish so fast, so early?
Yeah, she had a slump after 2014, but when she hit her head at the US Open, she was finding her form again. I remember it so clearly. She was actually having a good tournament, a sorely needed good result. That's part of what made it so unfortunate. Would she have kept it up? Who knows.
One of her former coaches said on a podcast that she didn't train very hard with him. Lots of off days.
I guess a lot of players are the real deal, tennis-wise, but not everyone wants to do what it takes to max out their potential. I say that without any judgment. It's hard. She had a decent career but left some stuff on the table.
^ That's being quite kind.
She had a good year.
I think the reason she (Bouchard) declined so quickly is both simple and multi-fold:
Firstly, the other players rather quickly learned how to best play her; she wasn't willing to put in the time and effort to adjust to her opponents learning how to play her; and she saw that she could be globally 'famous' without winning any more tennis matches, and instead by simply showing her ass in photo shoots. She became more of a 'model' than a tennis player.
So... why work on your game and make all that effort to improve when everyone will 'love' you anyway if you simply show them various body parts in flirtatious, 'sexy' poses?
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:21 pm
A bit insulting to place the Russians in the "withdrawal" list. Call it what it is. "Not accepted". Withdrawal sounds as if it is their decision.
ponchi101 wrote:A bit insulting to place the Russians in the "withdrawal" list. Call it what it is. "Not accepted". Withdrawal sounds as if it is their decision.
“Screwed Over” list
^ Yeah - that'll do.
I was thinking the 'Guilt By Association' list... or the 'Stereotyped' list... or the 'Unjustly Discriminated Against' list...
... Or the 'Asterisk Provoking' list...
by meganfernandez This is all it took to get my hopes up for Garbi at Wimbledon, which seems pretty wide open (although I expect Swiatek to be formidable there, too). Weird that she has done well at Wimbledon (a title and a final) because I don't think of her as a superb mover. She often looks hunched over or off balance when she swings. Maybe I'm wrong.
by ponchi101 Also: new racquet. Same brand, of course, but that is not her regular Pure Drive. Or at least the cosmetics are different.
Wimby is her most successful slam, as you say. And she likes it. Won't raise my hopes too high, but we know her: she goes months with no good results after a big win (Guadalajara last year) and then, bang, she wins something important. Let's hope she does well.
by ashkor87 Actually there is no reason not to say Swiatek is favorite for Wimbledon...the court has slowed down over the years, and Nadal has shown that his kind of game can work on grass...
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:51 am
Actually there is no reason not to say Swiatek is favorite for Wimbledon...the court has slowed down over the years, and Nadal has shown that his kind of game can work on grass...
It's just a very different surface, even if it is a little slower than in the past. She won the juniors there, and for me, she is the favorite but not the runaway favorite at this point. New tournament, new surface, new factors.
by ponchi101 But they all are in the same situation. Former champions like Kerber and Mugu are not playing great. FInalist Pliskova neither. I would say she is not as much of a favorite as for RG, but she is still the favorite.
Just not over the field.
by Deuce I say that a former Wimbledon finalist will win it this year...
This player will take advantage of everyone being distracted by the discriminatory ban of Russian and Belarusian players and the removal of points for the tournament, and stealthily work her way through the draw. No-one will notice her until she reaches the Semi-Final... And by then, it will be too late - she'll be on a roll, and her opponents in the Semi-Final and Final will be caught unprepared... leading to this player winning it all in her second opportunity.
That player is...
► Show Spoiler
Eugenie Bouchard!
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:01 am
But they all are in the same situation. Former champions like Kerber and Mugu are not playing great. FInalist Pliskova neither. I would say she is not as much of a favorite as for RG, but she is still the favorite.
Just not over the field.
Without seeing Iga play a warmup, I think I'd take the field over her but just by a couple percentage points. BTW, Kerber has had a pretty strong few months. I like her chances for a run.
by Suliso I think we overestimate Iga on grass, particularly straight after winning RG and with no grass practice. My estimation is that she goes down R16 or QF.
by jazzyg I would rate Swiatek the favorite but with less than a 50 percent chance to win it.
The women's field is so weak at the top right now that I cannot name anyone other than Swiatek I expect to reach the quarters even. Kerber played very well last year and might have won without Barty around, but she's a year older now. Sabalenka was playing well enough to win it until she suddenly wasn't in the last two sets against Pliskova, but though she appears to have gotten over her double faults plague, she is still shaky. Muguruza definitely is capable because of her power but can lose to anybody in any round. Halep has been consistently good at Wimbledon for several years except for the year she had just won Roland Garros, but it's hard to gauge her confidence level at the moment. Jabeur has the shots and movement but is too inconsistent.
There's no one else in the top 20 I take seriously at all. If Swiatek gets upset, which is a definite possibility, there are probably about 20 players who could win it.
by ashkor87 History says wimbledon has never been won by some random player..only Bartoli is an exception..so either someone who is already a major champion or someone who will win multiple majors...
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:History says wimbledon has never been won by some random player..only Bartoli is an exception..so either someone who is already a major champion or someone who will win multiple majors...
Bartoli actually made the final in 2007 before winning in 2013. It was the Pierce Brosnan year. So she wasn’t super random.
There have been some random/surprise finalists who lost to a Williams or a future multi-Slam winner like Kvitova. Without a towering giant in the draw to stop a random finalist at the final, maybe this year will defy the odds.
ashkor87 wrote:History says wimbledon has never been won by some random player..only Bartoli is an exception..so either someone who is already a major champion or someone who will win multiple majors...
Bartoli actually made the final in 2007 before winning in 2013. It was the Pierce Brosnan year. So she wasn’t super random.
There have been some random/surprise finalists who lost to a Williams or a future multi-Slam winner like Kvitova. Without a towering giant in the draw to stop a random finalist at the final, maybe this year will defy the odds.
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Finalists yes but not champions, I think
by Suliso It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
by ponchi101
jazzyg wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:52 am
I would rate Swiatek the favorite but with less than a 50 percent chance to win it.
...
There's no one else in the top 20 I take seriously at all. If Swiatek gets upset, which is a definite possibility, there are probably about 20 players who could win it.
Indeed.
I will take her as the best bet, but just at around 25%. The thing is that with Barty gone, I would not give anybody else anything more than 5%. And those would be Halep, Kerber and Mugu, just because they are past champions.{
I say, most likely: OTHER. My favorite player of late.
by ashkor87
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:06 pm
It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
yes, could be that the towering giants like Serena and Venus, who have won it 9 times in the last 21 years between them, has been inhibiting the rise of others.. but still, I do feel that it takes 'class' to win Wimbledon - you need to be someone who can win multiple majors.
In fact, there have been very few first time winners, in the sense of someone who had never won a major before - Kvitova in 2011, Bartoli in 2013 and Sharapova in 2004..and except for Bartoli, the others went on to win other majors..
so I think someone like Leylah could have won, because she is clearly a future champion, or someone like Raducanu.. but with their injuries, who knows.. I would have considered Alexandrova, but she is out anyway...
so overall, I still think Swiatek will win - 50% probability, the rest of the field 50%.. of whom Osaka and Andreescu are the best..
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:06 pm
It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
yes, could be that the towering giants like Serena and Venus, who have won it 9 times in the last 21 years between them, has been inhibiting the rise of others.. but still, I do feel that it takes 'class' to win Wimbledon - you need to be someone who can win multiple majors.
^ You said that this year's Wimbledon is "an exhibition tournament" (and I agree).
But now, you're writing as if this year's Wimbledon is no different from previous Wimbledons. I disagree. I think that, due to the no Russians/no Belarusian/no points, this year's tournament will have a very different feel - both among fans and among players - than the normal Wimbledon has.
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:41 am
In fact, there have been very few first time winners, in the sense of someone who had never won a major before - Kvitova in 2011, Bartoli in 2013 and Sharapova in 2004..and except for Bartoli, the others went on to win other majors..
^ ... A guy named Federer also won his first Major at Wimbledon.
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:41 am
so I think someone like Leylah could have won, because she is clearly a future champion, or someone like Raducanu.. but with their injuries, who knows..
^ Leylah needs much more experience on grass to be considered a threat at Wimbledon anytime soon. And she won't get that experience this year.
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:41 am
so overall, I still think Swiatek will win - 50% probability, the rest of the field 50%.. of whom Osaka and Andreescu are the best..
^ Neither Osaka or Andreescu has shown me anything recently (the past 6 months or so) to make me think that one or both would be a serious threat at Wimbledon this year.
I continue to hope that all players will withdraw from Wimbledon the day before the tournament begins in protest against the unfair and discriminatory ban of Russians and Belarusian players.
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:06 pm
It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
yes, could be that the towering giants like Serena and Venus, who have won it 9 times in the last 21 years between them, has been inhibiting the rise of others.. but still, I do feel that it takes 'class' to win Wimbledon - you need to be someone who can win multiple majors.
In fact, there have been very few first time winners, in the sense of someone who had never won a major before - Kvitova in 2011, Bartoli in 2013 and Sharapova in 2004..and except for Bartoli, the others went on to win other majors..
...
I decided to check how many 1 time winners Wimbledon has had in the open era, and you may be onto something: Conchita, Novotna and Bartoli. By that I mean players that won only one slam, and it was at Wimby. By comparison, the USO has 6: Sabatini, Stosur, Penneta, Sloane, Bianca and Emma, with the last three still playing.
So yes, to win Wimbledon you most likely need something else. But this year, the four former champions in the draw (unless Venus gets her WC) are all playing sub-par. I can see Kerber doing well, but Halep, Mugu and Petra have to be considered very long-shots.
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:06 pm
It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
yes, could be that the towering giants like Serena and Venus, who have won it 9 times in the last 21 years between them, has been inhibiting the rise of others.. but still, I do feel that it takes 'class' to win Wimbledon - you need to be someone who can win multiple majors.
In fact, there have been very few first time winners, in the sense of someone who had never won a major before - Kvitova in 2011, Bartoli in 2013 and Sharapova in 2004..and except for Bartoli, the others went on to win other majors..
...
I decided to check how many 1 time winners Wimbledon has had in the open era, and you may be onto something: Conchita, Novotna and Bartoli. By that I mean players that won only one slam, and it was at Wimby. By comparison, the USO has 6: Sabatini, Stosur, Penneta, Sloane, Bianca and Emma, with the last three still playing.
So yes, to win Wimbledon you most likely need something else. But this year, the four former champions in the draw (unless Venus gets her WC) are all playing sub-par. I can see Kerber doing well, but Halep, Mugu and Petra have to be considered very long-shots.
Thanks for checking ...you have substantiated what I only guessed. Btw even Bartoli had to retire with a severe injury soon after winning W, so she may have gone on to win another one ..
Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:06 pm
It's not a rule, though. This year could be an exception.
yes, could be that the towering giants like Serena and Venus, who have won it 9 times in the last 21 years between them, has been inhibiting the rise of others.. but still, I do feel that it takes 'class' to win Wimbledon - you need to be someone who can win multiple majors.
In fact, there have been very few first time winners, in the sense of someone who had never won a major before - Kvitova in 2011, Bartoli in 2013 and Sharapova in 2004..and except for Bartoli, the others went on to win other majors..
...
I decided to check how many 1 time winners Wimbledon has had in the open era, and you may be onto something: Conchita, Novotna and Bartoli. By that I mean players that won only one slam, and it was at Wimby. By comparison, the USO has 6: Sabatini, Stosur, Penneta, Sloane, Bianca and Emma, with the last three still playing.
So yes, to win Wimbledon you most likely need something else. But this year, the four former champions in the draw (unless Venus gets her WC) are all playing sub-par. I can see Kerber doing well, but Halep, Mugu and Petra have to be considered very long-shots.
Not surprising given how many players prefer hard court to grass. The difference is pretty small, though.
Ib happier times, I would have said
Swiatek 40%
Leylah 30%
Raducanu 10%
Alexandrova 10%
Etc .
by ponchi101 There is no way I can put Emma at anywhere above 2%. She is a known quantity and has done nothing of relevance to earn that much.
Andreescu: about the same rationale.
Gauff. I want to see her play one match, but, ok, I can go for 10%
So you are taking Swiatek and NOT one single other top 10 player. Ok, I can go for that
by ashkor87 The only real question mark about Raducanu is her fitness..I think her injury woes are all one-offs, so I am optimistic...if she is fit, she can win this event...though the court isn't as fast as the USO..even last year, she had played well..
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:08 am
The only real question mark about Raducanu is her fitness..I think her injury woes are all one-offs, so I am optimistic...if she is fit, she can win this event...though the court isn't as fast as the USO..even last year, she had played well..
She played well at Wimbledon and the U.S. Open last year.
Those are the only two WTA level tournaments where she's done well... and in one of them, she was so overwhelmed emotionally/psychologically that she had to quit a match.
Other than those two tournaments, she has shown nothing significant (except a very strong tendency to retire/withdraw).
Those two tournaments, then, are an extremely small sample size to assess a player on. Extremely small.
As such, in my view, everything about Raducanu is a question mark, not just her fitness.
Her level of play is a huge question mark... How she handles having a 'target on her back' after the U.S. Open is a huge question mark... Her commitment to the game is a huge question mark...
by Suliso Raducanu if she even plays wins max 2 matches. Winning the title is out of question.
by ashkor87 Sloane is somebody I always thought of as potentially good on grass..light on her feet, good return..her serve could do with more bite but she is capable of winning Wimbledon..and she has proven her 'class' by winning the USO..! Her chances are better than Madison's, though many people including Davenport think of Madison Keys as a future Wimbledon champion..I actually think she is more suited to a medium-paced hard court..
by ashkor87
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:06 am
Raducanu if she even plays wins max 2 matches. Winning the title is out of question.
I think more of her than you do but we shall see
by Suliso I think you're taking your thesis "Wimbledon is won by established champions or future superstars" a bit too far, but indeed we'll see soon enough. This year is a bit short of such candidates...
by ashkor87 Let us watch and see how Qinwen Zheng adapts to grass..she has the game..can she adapt is the only question..she is entered in Berlin, I believe...
Ib happier times, I would have said
Swiatek 40%
Leylah 30%
Raducanu 10%
Alexandrova 10%
Etc .
No Jabeur, a quarterfinal It’s last year? I’m high on her chances. She has a tough one today vs Muchova.
It’s all a crapshoot at this point.
by ashkor87 Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..
by ashkor87 Serena is back! Entered W with a wild card and doubles at Eastbourne with Jabeur
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:Serena is back! Entered W with a wild card and doubles at Eastbourne with Jabeur
Yep. Just because we didn’t see her training doesn’t mean she wasn’t. (Or maybe she really wasn't.) Love that she is playing with Jabeur. Quite an endorsement. Interesting that Venus didn’t enter with Serena.
I know what you mean about Jabeur. Sometimes we don’t see it until… well, we see it. I think she can win Wimbledon. I think she believes enough and definitely has the game. She isn’t as outwardly ferocious like Iga or Serena or Sabalenka, but I think she wants it badly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
by jazzyg I agree about Jabeur having the ability to win Wimbledon. I don't expect it to happen, but in the totally wide open field, I'd definitely put her in the top five. She looked like she might do it last year, dominating Muguruza and Swiatek in the second and third sets of their matches before running out of ideas against Sabalenka's power and deciding to hit a drop shot on every point in the quarters.
There's no one in the draw I would not give her an excellent chance of beating. The problem is how many times she finds a way to beat herself.
by jazzyg Gauff is an interesting case. On athletic ability, power and desire, she should be a contender, but I can't get past her extreme western grip. The tennis world has changed dramatically since the 1990s, but I remember when Berasategui reached the Roland Garros final in 1994, the commentators all made fun of his "crazy" windshield wiper grip in which he hit the ball on the same side of his racquet with his forehand and backhand. They insisted it only worked on clay.
Nearly 30 years later, Gauff has the same grip as Berasategui did, and it is interesting to me that her best slam results have come at Roland Garros. She needs a lot of time to hit that forehand properly, and even though grass has changed a lot, it still rewards players with compact, relatively flat shots. Maybe the game and technique have changed enough that it won't affect her, but I wonder about her up side on fast courts.
by meganfernandez
jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:10 pm
Gauff is an interesting case. On athletic ability, power and desire, she should be a contender, but I can't get past her extreme western grip. The tennis world has changed dramatically since the 1990s, but I remember when Berasategui reached the Roland Garros final in 1994, the commentators all made fun of his "crazy" windshield wiper grip in which he hit the ball on the same side of his racquet with his forehand and backhand. They insisted it only worked on clay.
Nearly 30 years later, Gauff has the same grip as Berasategui did, and it is interesting to me that her best slam results have come at Roland Garros. She needs a lot of time to hit that forehand properly, and even though grass has changed a lot, it still rewards players with compact, relatively flat shots. Maybe the game and technique have changed enough that it won't affect her, but I wonder about her up side on fast courts.
Doesn't Swiatek have a Western grip, too? Apropos of nothing.
I think there should be a way to adjust. Maybe she has to come in more. Why can't someone shorten their swing with a Western grip?
by JazzNU
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:26 pm
Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..
by ponchi101 A lot of players have western grips, but Jazzyg is talking about the BERASATEGUI western grip. In reality, it was never a forehand grip; it was a western BACKHAND grip (think Stan's) and then you rotate the hand towards your forehand side and hit it that way. As Jazzyg said, you end up hitting the ball, always, with the same face of the racquet. It was an insane grip (Berasategui's) that allowed him to put extreme spin on the ball, but it is a liability when having to hit a low ball.
I did not know Gauff hit with that grip, and was obviously not paying attention during the RG final. Will keep an eye on that.
---0---
Serena has a WC. Does she get seeded? At a minimum, I would say that the AELTC has to seed her #32. And, how far does she go? 3R? SF's? Is she a contender?
by Suliso She won't be seeded, I think.
by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:48 pm
She won't be seeded, I think.
I don't think Serena will be seeded, either. Doesn't deserve to be. I don't know if they would seed her based on her performance in doubles with Jabeur. Maybe if she looks like the old Serena, serving lights out, they will.
by jazzyg Thanks, ponch. I'd forgotten it was the backhand side. As someone who plays with a continental grip and never changes it even for serving, I know zilch about western grips other than what I hear.
A friend of mine when I lived in Florida in the late 1990s played with the Berasategui grip and had a monster forehand. I asked him how he had developed it, and he said it was the way he had always hit. A few years later, I watched little kids taking lessons at the public tennis courts where I played and all of them looked like they were using the Berasategui grip.
Megan, I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that Gauff is the only current top player with the windshield wiper approach, but that doe not come from my observation. It's just what I've heard from commentary.
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:48 pm
She won't be seeded, I think.
I don't think Serena will be seeded, either. Doesn't deserve to be. I don't know if they would seed her based on her performance in doubles with Jabeur. Maybe if she looks like the old Serena, serving lights out, they will.
She was ranked 8 last year at this time, so probably does deserve to be seeded. I agree that she will not be, however.
by JTContinental
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:59 am
Let us watch and see how Qinwen Zheng adapts to grass..she has the game..can she adapt is the only question..she is entered in Berlin, I believe...
She lost to Alycia Parks today in a first round match, so I don't think I'd pencil her in to go too far.
by ponchi101
jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:40 pm
Thanks, ponch. I'd forgotten it was the backhand side. As someone who plays with a continental grip and never changes it even for serving, I know zilch about western grips other than what I hear.
...
I admire anybody that can play with a continental
by dmforever
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:26 pm
Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..
I read this last night and though I could just let it go, but it has really stuck in my craw. Please enlighten me on what you mean. My understanding of "class" as you are using it refers to how someone acts under pressure or in difficult situations. As far as I know, Jabeur has only ever been polite, engaging, smart, and gracious. When she lost out on qualifying for the YEC last year or the year before, in the last match of the regular season (Kontaveit, right?), she sent Kontaveit a funny message congratulating her on IG or somewhere. She has had to bear the weight of being the first African woman and the first Muslim woman to reach the upper echelons of women's tennis and unless I've missed something, she's understood that role really well. I don't remember seeing her pitching fits, breaking rackets, or walking off the court after a lost set. I know you said it's "indefinable", but by all means, do your best to define it because I'm totally lost.
Venus and Serena were also labeled as not having class at various times in their careers. A physical therapist that I was working with once said something exactly to that effect that I won't repeat here. She couldn't define it either.
Also, I would say that "class" has little or nothing to do with tennis matches. Many people thought McEnroe and Connors didn't have class and they did alright. Martina Hingis was a brat on court (see RG final against Steffi) yet she did OK as well.
Kevin
by ti-amieKEY DATES FOR WIMBLEDON 2022
20 June: Qualifying begins
24 June: The Draw
25 June – 26 June:
Pre-event Media Conferences
26 June: Order of Play released
27 June: The Championships commences
by ti-amieTHE CHAMPIONSHIPS, WIMBLEDON 2022
WILD CARD ANNOUNCEMENTS
GENTLEMEN’S SINGLES
1 BROADY, Liam (GBR)
2 CLARKE, Jay (GBR)
3 GRAY, Alastair (GBR)
4 JUBB, Paul (GBR)
5 PENISTON, Ryan (GBR)
6. VAN RIJTHOVEN, Tim (NED)
7. WAWRINKA, Stan (SUI)
8. To be announced
LADIES’ SINGLES
1. BOULTER, Katie (GBR)
2. BURRAGE, Jodie (GBR)
3. KARTAL, Sonay (GBR)
4. MIYAZAKI, Yuriko (GBR)
5. SWAN, Katie (GBR)
6. WILLIAMS, Serena (USA)
7. To be announced
8. To be announced
GENTLEMEN’S DOUBLES
1 BROADY, Liam (GBR) / CLARKE, Jay (GBR)
2. CASH, Julian (GBR) / PATTEN, Henry (GBR)
3. GRAY, Alastair (GBR) / PENISTON, Ryan (GBR)
4. O'MARA, Jonny (GBR) / SKUPSKI, Ken (GBR)
5. To be announced
6. To be announced
7. To be announced
LADIES’ DOUBLES
1. BARNETT, Alicia (GBR) / NICHOLLS, Olivia (GBR)
2. BURRAGE, Jodie (GBR) / SILVA, Eden (GBR)
3. DART, Harriet (GBR) / WATSON, Heather (GBR)
4. GREY, Sarah Beth (GBR) / MIYAZAKI, Yuriko (GBR)
5. To be announced
6. To be announced
7. To be announced
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:26 pm
Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..
I read this last night and though I could just let it go, but it has really stuck in my craw. Please enlighten me on what you mean. My understanding of "class" as you are using it refers to how someone acts under pressure or in difficult situations. As far as I know, Jabeur has only ever been polite, engaging, smart, and gracious. When she lost out on qualifying for the YEC last year or the year before, in the last match of the regular season (Kontaveit, right?), she sent Kontaveit a funny message congratulating her on IG or somewhere. She has had to bear the weight of being the first African woman and the first Muslim woman to reach the upper echelons of women's tennis and unless I've missed something, she's understood that role really well. I don't remember seeing her pitching fits, breaking rackets, or walking off the court after a lost set. I know you said it's "indefinable", but by all means, do your best to define it because I'm totally lost.
Venus and Serena were also labeled as not having class at various times in their careers. A physical therapist that I was working with once said something exactly to that effect that I won't repeat here. She couldn't define it either.
Also, I would say that "class" has little or nothing to do with tennis matches. Many people thought McEnroe and Connors didn't have class and they did alright. Martina Hingis was a brat on court (see RG final against Steffi) yet she did OK as well.
Kevin
that is not what I meant by 'class'! I was talking purely about tennis ability and potential, not social behavior... unlike most people here, I do not like to comment on behavioral issues, I stay focused on tennis.. yeah, yeah, I know, someone will tell me the two are related - yes, but they are not the same.
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:59 am
Let us watch and see how Qinwen Zheng adapts to grass..she has the game..can she adapt is the only question..she is entered in Berlin, I believe...
She lost to Alycia Parks today in a first round match, so I don't think I'd pencil her in to go too far.
true. but she was just coming off a win at Velancia, so maybe not settled down yet. let us see..
by ti-amie I'm a Qinwen fan too. I was surprised to see her playing an ITF last week and coming straight to a main tour event. I hope she gets a rest period too.
by meganfernandez Tim van Rijthoven - the surprise winner last week - got a wild card.
by ponchi101 On the one hand: c'mon, the guy has only won a few matches on tour.
On the other: it is a thin field for WC's so, why not?
by Deuce
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:03 pm
Tim van Rijthoven - the surprise winner last week - got a wild card.
If there is a God in heaven, he will play Botic in the Final.
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:03 pm
Tim van Rijthoven - the surprise winner last week - got a wild card.
If there is a God in heaven, he will play Botic in the Final.
Too good to be true. Krajicek would present the trophy.
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:48 pm
On the one hand: c'mon, the guy has only won a few matches on tour.
On the other: it is a thin field for WC's so, why not?
I think beating Medvedev 4 and 1 helps his case. If he hadn't beaten a top player, maybe not. Depending on the draw, I could see him winning a few matches. Big serve, moves well on the grass. So his title earned him 98k euro in prize money and another automatic 50k for a Wimbledon wild card (R1 loser prize money). I'm sure it will keep paying dividends. Just a crazy story, isn't it? I have nicknamed him Beethoven.
by ti-amie
by ashkor87 Sad..Venus is the real Queen..I often think she should have been named Serena and Serena could have been named Diana or Ares or some such..she is a warrior, nothing Serene about her!!
by ti-amie
by ashkor87 Probabilities for the men-
Djokovic 50%
Nadal 30%
Alcaraz 10%
Kyrgios 5%
Sinner 5%
Agree?
by ponchi101 Nope
Djokovic 45%
Berrettini 20%
Kyrgios 15%
Rafa 10%
Tsitsipas 5%
Field 5%
by Fastbackss Deuce , amongst others, said we would see some late withdrawals. Curious who else does so.
I appreciate Bouchard's candor
by ashkor87
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:50 am
Nope
Djokovic 45%
Berrettini 20%
Kyrgios 15%
Rafa 10%
Tsitsipas 5%
Field 5%
Hmm..ok but what has Tsitsi ever done on grass? His topspun shots will land in the middle of the court and sit up, inviting punishment..Berrettini maybe, but I guess I am not convinced he is capable of actually winning it...and no Alcaraz? His game would work well on grass, he is an excellent volleyer too...
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:45 am
Deuce , amongst others, said we would see some late withdrawals. Curious who else does so.
I appreciate Bouchard's candor
A kind word for Bouchard. Not often seen around here.
by ashkor87 Unbelievable performance by Kyrgios against Carreno Busta at Halle..maybe we should take him more seriously as a contender...
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:48 am
Unbelievable performance by Kyrgios against Carreno Busta at Halle..maybe we should take him more seriously as a contender...
Maybe Nick should take himselfmore seriously...
by Fastbackss And Osaka is out...
by Suliso To a surprise of no one...
by Suliso Anyway Naomi is a week grass player and it's very unlikely she would have reached the 2nd week here.
by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:52 am
Anyway Naomi is a week grass player and it's very unlikely she would have reached the 2nd week here.
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:52 am
Anyway Naomi is a week grass player and it's very unlikely she would have reached the 2nd week here.
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:52 am
Anyway Naomi is a week grass player and it's very unlikely she would have reached the 2nd week here.
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
No argument. Her results haven't been great. I think psychological, more in that realm. If Serena can dominate on grass, Naomi should be able to. I think their games are pretty similar. Serena probably volleys better, though. Naomi probably just doesn't have the belief and hasn't worked on it enough. I think she has even half-joked that grass scares her, something like that. It's Wim Fissette's job to lead Naomi to those greener pastures.
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:50 am
Nope
Djokovic 45%
Berrettini 20%
Kyrgios 15%
Rafa 10%
Tsitsipas 5%
Field 5%
Hmm..ok but what has Tsitsi ever done on grass? His topspun shots will land in the middle of the court and sit up, inviting punishment..Berrettini maybe, but I guess I am not convinced he is capable of actually winning it...and no Alcaraz? His game would work well on grass, he is an excellent volleyer too...
Nothing. True. But if that is the logic, very few players have ever done something on grass. After I gave it a thought, I would include Hurkacz over him.
But Stefanos has a one hander (useful when they stretch you) and is very solid at the net.
Cilic might do well, but that will mean getting to the QF's. Anything over that is a total overachievement.
by Suliso By the way most bookmakers are listing Gauff as the 2nd favorite. I think that's an exaggeration, but on the other hand is there a very strong case for anyone else?
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:52 am
Anyway Naomi is a week grass player and it's very unlikely she would have reached the 2nd week here.
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
I still say that grass is not about the big serve. It is about movement. And Naomi is a great mover ON HARD COURTS. She plants herself with a lot of power, and can change directions very quickly when she has traction. On grass, you have to be quick, but you have to be light. You try to do a hard court stop, and you will go down.
It was the reason somebody basically without a serve (Connors) was able to win it twice, and make three more finals. His feet were very light and he took an extra two steps to get to the ball, so after he hit, he was already stopped. Then he could change directions.
Plus, of course, at the time points were just 4 strokes at best.
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:31 pm
By the way most bookmakers are listing Gauff as the 2nd favorite. I think that's an exaggeration, but on the other hand is there a very strong case for anyone else?
Jabeur is making one.
by Suliso On the other hand some great servers have dominated Wimbledon. Federer, Roddick, Ivanisevic, Sampras...
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
I still say that grass is not about the big serve. It is about movement. And Naomi is a great mover ON HARD COURTS. She plants herself with a lot of power, and can change directions very quickly when she has traction. On grass, you have to be quick, but you have to be light. You try to do a hard court stop, and you will go down.
It was the reason somebody basically without a serve (Connors) was able to win it twice, and make three more finals. His feet were very light and he took an extra two steps to get to the ball, so after he hit, he was already stopped. Then he could change directions.
Plus, of course, at the time points were just 4 strokes at best.
Yes, fully agree...but Serena is the exception that proves the rule, I guess..nobody would call her light on her feet...
by ashkor87 Yes, had forgotten about Cilic..he can do well, semis maybe. Did better at RG than he had any right to, always a good early indicator.
Someone with that serve shouldn't be weak on grass. Hopefully she figures it out in the near future.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
I still say that grass is not about the big serve. It is about movement. And Naomi is a great mover ON HARD COURTS. She plants herself with a lot of power, and can change directions very quickly when she has traction. On grass, you have to be quick, but you have to be light. You try to do a hard court stop, and you will go down.
It was the reason somebody basically without a serve (Connors) was able to win it twice, and make three more finals. His feet were very light and he took an extra two steps to get to the ball, so after he hit, he was already stopped. Then he could change directions.
Plus, of course, at the time points were just 4 strokes at best.
You're right that movement is important. Might be why Radwanska did well, plus her great hands and ability to get low. But I think the grass makes a big serve even more dangerous and gives someone who's not a great mover on grass more of a chance. I don't think Kvitova is a great mover, for instance. This is a general rule - applied, there are more factors. Osaka would need to spend a lot more time on grass to get comfortable with it.
Iga hasn't played a warmup yet, has she? And she's not entered into Eastbourne. So no grass prep for Iga? Yikes.
by Suliso Iga's top favorite status is 99% reputation and the win streak. Nothing to do with her actual ability on grass.
by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:01 pm
Iga's top favorite status is 99% reputation and the win streak. Nothing to do with her actual ability on grass.
Then she isn't a runaway favorite for me until I see her play on grass.
by Suliso Runaway favorite? Certainly not for me either.
by ponchi101 She is the favorite because she is number 1 and this is wide open. But runaway is not even close.
At best, some 25%.
Agree, but the results argue that she is indeed weak on grass. I wonder if it's entirely technical reasons or some kind of weird psychological aversion as well.
I still say that grass is not about the big serve. It is about movement. And Naomi is a great mover ON HARD COURTS. She plants herself with a lot of power, and can change directions very quickly when she has traction. On grass, you have to be quick, but you have to be light. You try to do a hard court stop, and you will go down.
It was the reason somebody basically without a serve (Connors) was able to win it twice, and make three more finals. His feet were very light and he took an extra two steps to get to the ball, so after he hit, he was already stopped. Then he could change directions.
Plus, of course, at the time points were just 4 strokes at best.
You're right that movement is important. Might be why Radwanska did well, plus her great hands and ability to get low. But I think the grass makes a big serve even more dangerous and gives someone who's not a great mover on grass more of a chance. I don't think Kvitova is a great mover, for instance. This is a general rule - applied, there are more factors. Osaka would need to spend a lot more time on grass to get comfortable with it.
Iga hasn't played a warmup yet, has she? And she's not entered into Eastbourne. So no grass prep for Iga? Yikes.
Serena hardly ever played prep matches on grass, Nadal doesn't much,vand neither did Agassi..in fact Agassi refused to even practice on grass..so grass tournaments are not a must...and Swiatek is a junior W champion so ...
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:33 pm
I still say that grass is not about the big serve. It is about movement. And Naomi is a great mover ON HARD COURTS. She plants herself with a lot of power, and can change directions very quickly when she has traction. On grass, you have to be quick, but you have to be light. You try to do a hard court stop, and you will go down.
It was the reason somebody basically without a serve (Connors) was able to win it twice, and make three more finals. His feet were very light and he took an extra two steps to get to the ball, so after he hit, he was already stopped. Then he could change directions.
Plus, of course, at the time points were just 4 strokes at best.
You're right that movement is important. Might be why Radwanska did well, plus her great hands and ability to get low. But I think the grass makes a big serve even more dangerous and gives someone who's not a great mover on grass more of a chance. I don't think Kvitova is a great mover, for instance. This is a general rule - applied, there are more factors. Osaka would need to spend a lot more time on grass to get comfortable with it.
Iga hasn't played a warmup yet, has she? And she's not entered into Eastbourne. So no grass prep for Iga? Yikes.
Serena hardly ever played prep matches on grass, Nadal doesn't much,vand neither did Agassi..in fact Agassi refused to even practice on grass..so grass tournaments are not a must...and Swiatek is a junior W champion so ...
I know Swiatek won junior W. It doesn’t mean much to me for assessing her comfort and form on grass now. Since she doesn’t have much history in the surface, I need to see how she does for a few rounds before forming an opinion.
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by ti-amie
by ponchi101 So what? Several players playing under a Kazakh flag are really from Russia. Because if the AELTC is going to ban players that have any relation with Russia, Zverev would be banned too.
by ti-amie
by ponchi101 His results lately were saying something. He really was having problems in all matches.
by JTContinental I wonder if Opelka, Brooksby, and Cressy are suffering from the same injury
by Suliso I think Haddad Maia is nicely set up for R1 or R2 defeat at Wimbledon.
by ashkor87
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:55 am
I think Haddad Maia is nicely set up for R1 or R2 defeat at Wimbledon.
yes, that is what usually happens but let us hope not, I like her game..
by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:55 am
I think Haddad Maia is nicely set up for R1 or R2 defeat at Wimbledon.
Berrettini, too? I'll take that bet.
by Suliso Can't rule it out, but far less likely. Berrettini is an established top 15 player with a history of playing particularly well on grass.
by jazzyg Unless Berrettini has a recurrence of his hand injury, there is no way he will lose in the first or second round. He will be a contender to win Wimbledon every year he enters for the next five years at least. His game is perfectly made for grass, and he repeatedly comes through in the clutch.
But if you want to make that case, you could point out he got broken six times in winning Queen's Club this time after being broken only twice in his last four matches a year ago. I watched only a few games he played all week, but he has not been as dominant on serve as he was a year ago.
Plus, history is unkind to players who win two lead-up events in a row. I remember in 2001, there were only four ATP tournaments on grass before Wimbledon. Hewitt won two of them while Thomas Johansson won the other two. I picked both of them to reach the semifinals of Wimbledon in the Racquet Bracket that was the original internet contest. Johansson lost to a very young Roddick in the second round. Hewitt lost to Escude in the third or fourth round. Neither of them appeared fresh, but back then there were only two weeks between the end of the French Open and the start of Wimbledon. Berrettini gets a week off.
I agree history indicates Haddad Maia will lose early. She is overplaying, and nondescript players who get on a hot streak in the lead-ups invariably crash and burn in the slam. But she has shown impressive fortitude to win many of these matches. She might prove to be an exception to the nearly universal rule.
by meganfernandez
jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:39 pm
Berrettini gets a week off. I agree history indicates Haddad Maia will lose early. She is overplaying, and nondescript players who get on a hot streak in the lead-ups invariably crash and burn in the slam. But she has shown impressive fortitude to win many of these matches. She might prove to be an exception to the nearly universal rule.
Alternate theory: Every player is different and knows what s/he need, especially mid-career ones, and the vast majority have proven their good judgment by getting as far as they have by the time we know their names. BHM, a grown woman, is most likely making the best decision for herself. Chances are she will live up to her seeding, at least.
by meganfernandez
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:26 pm
Can't rule it out, but far less likely. Berrettini is an established top 15 player with a history of playing particularly well on grass.
I was being facetious. I might put him equal with Rafa based on his form. BHM is a legitimate dark horse, likely to live up to her seeding with her confidence on the surface.
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:55 am
I think Haddad Maia is nicely set up for R1 or R2 defeat at Wimbledon.
Maybe. But I am not picking her in either of those rounds for the SP because she has been solid. I would say she is good for a R4.
I looked at her two weeks streak. She has played 5 three-setters, and her highest ranked victory came against Sakkari (#5). After that, Halep (#20) and then a bunch of players around her level. So it has not been like Iga's streak, creaming everybody and playing just 1-hour matches. She has been on court for a bit.
So, I will stick to my plan. Not picking her.
by ashkor87 as for me, I am not picking ANYONE in SP, not going to flatter that exho by playing SP.. the Invitational Event at SW19, not the All England championships for sure.
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:55 am
I think Haddad Maia is nicely set up for R1 or R2 defeat at Wimbledon.
Maybe. But I am not picking her in either of those rounds for the SP because she has been solid. I would say she is good for a R4.
I looked at her two weeks streak. She has played 5 three-setters, and her highest ranked victory came against Sakkari (#5). After that, Halep (#20) and then a bunch of players around her level. So it has not been like Iga's streak, creaming everybody and playing just 1-hour matches. She has been on court for a bit.
So, I will stick to my plan. Not picking her.
Fatalist.
by ashkor87 I don't think Haddad Maia is a pretender..I have seen most of her games lately, and she has a very good game for grass..reminds me of Kvitova more than anyone else...
by jazzyg Wimbledon is not a glorified exhibition. Please stop saying that.
In most exhibitions, the players are paid the same whether they win or lose. At Wimbledon they will have to win matches to earn the big money just like at any other pro tourney. The only difference is the lack of ranking points, which I don't understand why any fan not related to a player would care about.
I think it was wrong and ridiculous to exclude the Russians, too, but there will be no asterisk placed on the winners this year, the ratings who be virtually unchanged from previous years and the effort level will be exactly the same.
by Deuce
jazzyg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 am
Wimbledon is not a glorified exhibition. Please stop saying that.
In most exhibitions, the players are paid the same whether they win or lose. At Wimbledin they will have to win matches to earn the big money just like at any other pro tourney. The only difference is the lack of ranking points, which I don't understand why any fan not related to a player would care about.
I think it was wrong and ridiculous to exclude the Russians, too, but there will be no asterisk placed on the winners this year, the ratings who be virtually unchanged from previous years and the effort level will be exactly the same.
How can you possibly say that "the effort level will be exactly the same" when so many good, established, quality players are excluded?!
Not to mention the other players who have withdrawn as a result of no points being awarded (and I think there will be more such withdrawals in the coming days).
With these good players excluded, and replaced by much, much lower ranked players, the effort level required overall to win matches will obviously be less than if the Russians and Belarusians were there.
And why do you say that there will be no asterisks? Do you have an official vote in the matter?
Personally, I think there definitely should be asterisks - large ones - to denote that the playing field - and therefore the competition - was certainly not as high or as tough as it would have been were there no discriminatory ban on certain players in effect.
Let's not have illusionary thoughts that this year's Wimbledon will be similar to the typical Wimbledons, as that is not at all the case.
This year, rather than strawberries and cream, it will be rotten strawberries and sour cream.
by Suliso It will be fairly similar. Very few Russian/Belorussian players would have made an impact here. Years later everyone will have forgotten about this.
by Deuce
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:44 am
It will be fairly similar. Very few Russian/Belorussian players would have made an impact here. Years later everyone will have forgotten about this.
I'd say that there's an extremely good chance that the banned players would have made a significantly bigger impact than will their replacements. That's pretty much guaranteed.
And that makes for a significantly different tournament.
Not to mention that no points being awarded will surely take away a degree of the motivation of some players.
Whether the controversy of this year's Wimbledon will be remembered or forgotten in coming years depends more upon how much more people become obsessed with trivial things like 'social media' and 'celebrity lifestyles' than it depends on the actual impact the Wimbledon bans create - because every year, trivial fluff takes up more and more space in people's thoughts than do significant, important matters.
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:26 pm
Can't rule it out, but far less likely. Berrettini is an established top 15 player with a history of playing particularly well on grass.
I was being facetious. I might put him equal with Rafa based on his form. BHM is a legitimate dark horse, likely to live up to her seeding with her confidence on the surface.
I agree, a very legitimate dark horse. It's just that she's bound to lose early.
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:44 am
It will be fairly similar. Very few Russian/Belorussian players would have made an impact here. Years later everyone will have forgotten about this.
I would say Sabalenka could have had a good tournament. She made the semis las year.
Of course, with her, she could have lost in 1R. We will never know.
by ponchi101 Seeds have been announced. No surprise in the positions, but, with Medvedev and Zverev out, it is Novak and Rafa at #1 and #2.
Perhaps for the last time at a slam?
by JTContinental Daria Saville has received one of the remaining 2 wild cards on the women's side
by ti-amieSEEDING ANNOUNCEMENTS
GENTLEMEN'S SINGLES
1 DJOKOVIC, Novak (SRB)
2 NADAL, Rafael (ESP)
3 RUUD, Casper (NOR)
4 TSITSIPAS, Stefanos (GRE)
5 ALCARAZ, Carlos (ESP)
6 AUGER-ALIASSIME, Felix (CAN)
7 HURKACZ, Hubert (POL)
8 BERRETTINI, Matteo (ITA)
9 NORRIE, Cameron (GBR)
10 SINNER, Jannik (ITA)
11 FRITZ, Taylor (USA)
12 SCHWARTZMAN, Diego (ARG)
13 SHAPOVALOV, Denis (CAN)
14 CILIC, Marin (CRO)
15 OPELKA, Reilly (USA)
16 CARRENO BUSTA, Pablo (ESP)
17 BAUTISTA AGUT, Roberto (ESP)
18 DIMITROV, Grigor (BUL)
19 MONFILS, Gael (FRA)
20 DE MINAUR, Alex (AUS)
21 ISNER, John (USA)
22 VAN DE ZANDSCHULP, Botic (NED)
23 BASILASHVILI, Nikoloz (GEO)
24 TIAFOE, Frances (USA)
25 RUNE, Holger (DEN)
26 KECMANOVIC, Miomir (SRB)
27 KRAJINOVIC, Filip (SRB)
28 SONEGO, Lorenzo (ITA)
29 EVANS, Daniel (GBR)
30 BROOKSBY, Jenson (USA)
31 PAUL, Tommy (USA)
32 BAEZ, Sebastian (ARG)
1 RAM, Rajeev (USA) and SALISBURY, Joe (GBR)
2 GRANOLLERS, Marcel (ESP) and ZEBALLOS, Horacio (ARG)
3 MEKTIC, Nikola (CRO) and PAVIC, Mate (CRO)
4 KOOLHOF, Wesley (NED) and SKUPSKI, Neal (GBR)
5 AREVALO, Marcelo (ESA) and ROJER, Jean-Julien (NED)
6 PUETZ, Tim (GER) and VENUS, Michael (NZL)
7 CABAL, Juan Sebastian (COL) and FARAH, Robert (COL)
8 PEERS, John (AUS) and POLASEK, Filip (SVK)
9 DODIG, Ivan (CRO) and KRAJICEK, Austin (USA)
10 MURRAY, Jamie (GBR) and SOARES, Bruno (BRA)
11 KOKKINAKIS, Thanasi (AUS) and KYRGIOS, Nick (AUS)
12 KRAWIETZ, Kevin (GER) and MIES, Andreas (GER)
13 MAHUT, Nicolas (FRA) and ROGER-VASSELIN, Edouard (FRA)
14 GONZALEZ, Santiago (MEX) and MOLTENI, Andres (ARG)
15 EBDEN, Matthew (AUS) and PURCELL, Max (AUS)
16 GLASSPOOL, Lloyd (GBR) and HELIOVAARA, Harri (FIN)
by ti-amieLADIES' DOUBLES - Seeds
1 MERTENS, Elise (BEL) and ZHANG, Shuai (CHN)
2 KREJCIKOVA, Barbora (CZE) and SINIAKOVA, Katerina (CZE)
3 DABROWSKI, Gabriela (CAN) and OLMOS, Giuliana (MEX)
4 KICHENOK, Lyudmyla (UKR) and OSTAPENKO, Jelena (LAT)
5 MUHAMMAD, Asia (USA) and SHIBAHARA, Ena (JPN)
6 HRADECKA, Lucie (CZE) and MIRZA, Sania (IND)
7 GUARACHI, Alexa (CHI) and KLEPAC, Andreja (SLO)
8 AOYAMA, Shuko (JPN) and CHAN, Hao-Ching (TPE)
9 XU, Yifan (CHN) and YANG, Zhaoxuan (CHN)
10 MELICHAR-MARTINEZ, Nicole (USA) and PEREZ, Ellen (AUS)
11 ROSOLSKA, Alicja (POL) and ROUTLIFFE, Erin (NZL)
12 CHAN, Latisha (TPE) and STOSUR, Samantha (AUS)
13 DZALAMIDZE, Natela (GEO) and KRUNIC, Aleksandra (SRB)
14 NICULESCU, Monica (ROU) and RUSE, Elena-Gabriela (ROU)
15 KICHENOK, Nadiia (UKR) and OLARU, Raluca (ROU)
16 FLIPKENS, Kirsten (BEL) and SORRIBES TORMO, Sara (ESP)
Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:26 pm
Can't rule it out, but far less likely. Berrettini is an established top 15 player with a history of playing particularly well on grass.
I was being facetious. I might put him equal with Rafa based on his form. BHM is a legitimate dark horse, likely to live up to her seeding with her confidence on the surface.
I agree, a very legitimate dark horse. It's just that she's bound to lose early.
Only if she draws the suddenly resurgent Sabine Lisiciki!! Is she in the draw? Otherwise BMH and I will see you in week two.
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by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote:
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:44 am
It will be fairly similar. Very few Russian/Belorussian players would have made an impact here. Years later everyone will have forgotten about this.
I would say Sabalenka could have had a good tournament. She made the semis las year.
Of course, with her, she could have lost in 1R. We will never know.
Agree, more likely than not. Alexandrova might have scored some upsets, too. And Medvedev was a week 2 lock.
Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:44 am
It will be fairly similar. Very few Russian/Belorussian players would have made an impact here. Years later everyone will have forgotten about this.
I would say Sabalenka could have had a good tournament. She made the semis las year.
Of course, with her, she could have lost in 1R. We will never know.
Agree, more likely than not. Alexandrova might have scored some upsets, too. And Medvedev was a week 2 lock.
Also Rublev and Khachanov and Karatsev on the men's side...
And for the women, in addition to Sabalenka, there is Azarenka and Kasatkina and Kudermetova and Sasnovich...
Add in Osaka, who I believe would likely have played if points were to be awarded... and any other players who have withdrawn or will withdraw due to there being no points awarded...
Those are good players ^. Significantly better and more established than their much lower ranked replacements.
So to say that this year's Wimbledon won't be much different with the unfair ban of these players than it would have been with these banned players participating is, I feel, quite an inaccurate perspective.
by ponchi101 It may be Serena's last Wimby. I think that should be considered.
by Deuce Serena would be the choice, I think - if she wants it. She may not want that spotlight, however, after not playing for so long.
Giving it to Raducanu would be a huge mistake in my view... With her poor record since the U.S. Open, in addition to the numerous in-match retirements and withdrawals, and now going into her home tournament, she's got more than enough pressure to perform already without needing the added pressure of the spotlight centre court initial match.
by meganfernandez Please not Raducanu. "Highest-ranked Brit" isn't a good criteria. Either the current no. 1, last finalist, last champ, or a legend like Serena - one of those makes sense. I like Last Finalist - in the event the reigning champ cannot fulfill her duties, the runner-up assumes them.
by the Moz It would be a lovely - and earned - gesture for the All England Club to give Serena the spot
by ashkor87 All very well but I still remember the racism on display at Centre court..when Serena was supposed to play in front of the Queen (Serena had even practiced her curtsy!,) But they switched her out for Wozniacki instead...no wonder I dislike the Wimby administrators..
by meganfernandez
the Moz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:08 pm
It would be a lovely - and earned - gesture for the All England Club to give Serena the spot
Just occurred to me - she's a good friend of Meghan Markle. Wonder if that's a factor.
by jazzyg Medvedev would not have been a second-week lock.
Rublev is a non-factor on grass and Karatsev is not winning matches on any surface right now.
Osaka withdrew because of an Achilles injury. Maybe she would have played through it if points were allowed, but this was not an imagined injury.
Given the right draw, Kasatkina could have made a deep run, but no one would have missed her if she had been out with an injury.
Sabalenka would have been a prime candidate for a first-round flameout. It is conceivable she could have matched her run from last year, but her head is not in the right place.
As far as I can tell, the ONLY player at the moment who is skipping. Wimbledon because it offers no ranking points in Bouchard, who understandably wants to play in events to raise her nonexistent ranking and would have had little chance to win her 1st round.
by meganfernandez
jazzyg wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:33 pm
Medvedev would not have been a second-week lock.
8-4 on grass this year. Would have been a huge upset if the World No. 1 would have lost before R4.
by jazzyg Won 5 games while losing to unknown Dutchman.
Won 5 games while losing to Bautista Agut today.
Struggled mightily to beat Simon in a match I watched, never looked comfortable in a few others despite winning them and plays too far behind the baseline to be effective against good players. The only guy ranked inside the top 20 he faced, Hurkacz, crushed him.
I do agree it would be considered a huge upset, but I would have expected it if he had tough matchup in one of the first three rounds. He is a one-surface threat at the moment.
by ti-amieEmma Raducanu on course to be fit for Wimbledon after side injury
British No. 1 Emma Raducanu looks set to play at Wimbledon as she recovers from a side strain suffered at the Nottingham Open; Raducanu, who made the fourth round at the All England Club a year ago, has only played seven games on grass this summer
Last Updated: 23/06/22 7:24pm
Emma Raducanu is making good progress in her recovery from injury and is expected to take her place in the Wimbledon draw on Friday.
The 19-year-old managed only seven games of her first grass-court tournament of the season in Nottingham a fortnight ago before pulling out after suffering a side strain.
Raducanu was not ready to return for this week's WTA tournament in Eastbourne but has been practising at the All England Club this week and the PA news agency understands she is on course to be fit for the Championships.
The British No. 1's team are not taking anything for granted, though, and will monitor her carefully over the next couple of days before a final decision is made.
Raducanu, who made headlines with her debut run to the fourth round at Wimbledon last summer before going on to win the US Open, is the 10th seed in the women's singles.
Meanwhile, in a break with tradition, Rafael Nadal, Matteo Berrettini and Novak Djokovic all practised on Centre Court on Thursday.
The two main show courts are normally off limits for players until the first match on the opening Monday but, after a number of incidents of players slipping in the early days, Wimbledon has decided to allow a limited amount of practice to bed the surface down.
Serena Williams and Adrian Mannarino were both forced to retire during their first-round matches last year after suffering injuries.
Djokovic will be bidding for a seventh title at Wimbledon, where he owns a 79-10 record.
Nadal is a two-time Wimbledon champion, in 2008 and 2010, and has won the first two Grand Slams of the season. He is bidding to become the first man to win all four majors in the same year since Rod Laver in 1969.
Williams has seen her return to action unexpectedly cut short after doubles partner Ons Jabeur suffered an injury and had to withdraw from the Eastbourne.
jazzyg wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:33 pm
Medvedev would not have been a second-week lock.
Rublev is a non-factor on grass and Karatsev is not winning matches on any surface right now.
Osaka withdrew because of an Achilles injury. Maybe she would have played through it if points were allowed, but this was not an imagined injury.
Given the right draw, Kasatkina could have made a deep run, but no one would have missed her if she had been out with an injury.
Sabalenka would have been a prime candidate for a first-round flameout. It is conceivable she could have matched her run from last year, but her head is not in the right place.
As far as I can tell, the ONLY player at the moment who is skipping. Wimbledon because it offers no ranking points in Bouchard, who understandably wants to play in events to raise her nonexistent ranking and would have had little chance to win her 1st round.
You're reaching extremely far in your attempt to justify your position that this year's Wimbledon will be virtually the same as all previous Wimbledons.
That's your right, of course. I simply very much disagree with your perspective.
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:10 pm
All very well but I still remember the racism on display at Centre court..when Serena was supposed to play in front of the Queen (Serena had even practiced her curtsy!,) But they switched her out for Wozniacki instead...no wonder I dislike the Wimby administrators..
Was there any actual evidence that this was the result of racism?
If so, what is that evidence?
If not, the ugly accusation is unwarranted.
by ponchi101 The AELTC allowed for some players to practice on Centre Court. Perhaps the most fragile court in the world, and which will be basically a cow pasture by the end of week 1 (especially the baseline area).
I am not sure if this was smart. I hope they can make sure it will not be slightly chewed up before start of play on Monday.
by ti-amie
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by ashkor87 A useful rule of thumb is- if you are one of the 3 best players in the draw, you can win..some random thing can always happen..
On the men's side, the 3 best players are Djokovic, Nadal and Berrettini
On the women's, it is Swiatek, Halep and Andreescu
How is the '3 best,' determined? Only by informed judgment, unfortunately.
by ponchi101 You were asking about what Tsitsipas has ever done on grass, and you were right that his record on the surface was underwhelming.
But he is in the finals of Mallorca. I am not saying he will win (I think Novak has this) but don't count him out either.
by ti-amie
This was taken at the Hurlingham exhibition on June 23.
by ti-amie
by ashkor87
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:23 pm
You were asking about what Tsitsipas has ever done on grass, and you were right that his record on the surface was underwhelming.
But he is in the finals of Mallorca. I am not saying he will win (I think Novak has this) but don't count him out either.
It is not so much his record I don't think much of..it is his game- that heavy topspin doesn't really help, it seems a bit different from Nadal's, who is able to push people back with it...
by ashkor87 Even though I did name Berrettini a contender, I can't imagine how he can beat someone like Djokovic with that really poor backhand.someone else will have to beat Djokovic on the way to the finals for B to win..
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:Even though I did name Berrettini a contender, I can't imagine how he can beat someone like Djokovic with that really poor backhand.someone else will have to beat Djokovic on the way to the finals for B to win..
He got a set off Novak with it in the final last year.
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by ponchi101 I agree that the BH is his less stellar shot. But he can defend with it, albeit not as well as Novak, with the slice. It floats a bit too much but it can work on grass.
Anyway, I say that if you win two grass events prior to the big one, you have done more than most others to get a mention in the "possible winners" conversation.
by ti-amie The article is paywalled so this is the next best thing.
Catherine Ann Whitaker is a British sports reporter, presenter and commentator for both television and radio, who has covered tennis and other sports for Eurosport, Amazon Prime Video UK, BBC Radio 5 Live, BeIn Sports, Perform and IMG Media. Wikipedia
by ponchi101 I guess there is no possible way to argue the point.
by ashkor87 Djokovic 50%
Berretini 20%
Nadal 15%
Hurkacz 10%
Kyrgios 5%
by ashkor87
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:44 pm
I agree that the BH is his less stellar shot. But he can defend with it, albeit not as well as Novak, with the slice. It floats a bit too much but it can work on grass.
Anyway, I say that if you win two grass events prior to the big one, you have done more than most others to get a mention in the "possible winners" conversation.
Oh Berrettini certainly deserves a mention. But I am now increasingly believing in the 'peak at the wrong time' theory ..players who win the tune-up events seldom win the big one..see Italian and French, Eastbourne/Qeens and Wimbledon...those who only do well- going to the finals, semis, seem to do better..hence Ostapenko and BHM , Andreescu, even Halep but not Garcia, Kvitova, Berrettini..they have peaked too early, in my opinion...playing like this 2 weeks later would have been better for them.Of course, the great ones, like Federer and Nadal, can win Halle and Wimbledon, Rome and RG but that is an example of 'the exception proves the rule' ..you have to be THAT great..
by ponchi101 I say you still have Swiatek and Djokovic too high. Djokovic is the favorite, but not at 50%.
For the women: There is nobody with more than 10% chance, apart from Swiatek. I accept she is the favorite, but that streak has to end sometime, I believe in rest (a little bit) but no tournaments on grass, to me, was a mistake, and she does not have the serve or volleys to make her that prohibitive a favorite.
30% at best
by ashkor87
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:16 am
I say you still have Swiatek and Djokovic too high. Djokovic is the favorite, but not at 50%.
For the women: There is nobody with more than 10% chance, apart from Swiatek. I accept she is the favorite, but that streak has to end sometime, I believe in rest (a little bit) but no tournaments on grass, to me, was a mistake, and she does not have the serve or volleys to make her that prohibitive a favorite.
30% at best
Probabilities are difficult to argue about but would you take the field over Djokovic,? I would give the two eventualities 'Djoko' and 'not Djoko' an equal chance...evidently you think 'not Djoko' is much more likely than 'Djoko'..,about 70-30, in fact..sounds high to me!
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:44 pm
I agree that the BH is his less stellar shot. But he can defend with it, albeit not as well as Novak, with the slice. It floats a bit too much but it can work on grass.
Anyway, I say that if you win two grass events prior to the big one, you have done more than most others to get a mention in the "possible winners" conversation.
Oh Berrettini certainly deserves a mention. But I am now increasingly believing in the 'peak at the wrong time' theory ..players who win the tune-up events seldom win the big one..see Italian and French, Eastbourne/Qeens and Wimbledon...those who only do well- going to the finals, semis, seem to do better..hence Ostapenko and BHM , Andreescu, even Halep but not Garcia, Kvitova, Berrettini..they have peaked too early, in my opinion...playing like this 2 weeks later would have been better for them.Of course, the great ones, like Federer and Nadal, can win Halle and Wimbledon, Rome and RG but that is an example of 'the exception proves the rule' ..you have to be THAT great..
To put it differently .those who think Berrettini will win, are positing that he is as great as Federer, McEnroe, Becker..seems a bit of a stretch to me.
by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:09 pm
The article is paywalled so this is the next best thing.
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Catherine Ann Whitaker is a British sports reporter, presenter and commentator for both television and radio, who has covered tennis and other sports for Eurosport, Amazon Prime Video UK, BBC Radio 5 Live, BeIn Sports, Perform and IMG Media. Wikipedia
I'd like to say "Big deal - if a photo is taken which shows a little red from a player's period, it means only that she is a normal, healthy, functioning female - and that's nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about."
But I suppose society hasn't progressed to that point yet.
I see it like nudity... here in North America, nudity is automatically intertwined with sexuality. In many European countries, nudity can - and does - exist independent of sexuality. And their levels of things like teenage pregnancies and STDs are far lower than the levels in North America.
In North America, nudity - whole or partial - is considered 'vulgar, or 'indecent', or 'obscene' - because it is so automatically linked to sex. Imagine - the natural human body - an unaltered product of nature - is considered obscene and vulgar! Talk about an unhealthy perspective!
There is a HUGE difference between someone skinny dipping - or even lying in a park nude - and someone performing a sex act (alone or with someone else) in public. But in North America's twisted view, they are all the same.
If you see someone naked, you aren't seeing something exclusive - you're seeing body parts which half of the planet's population shares. Every second person has those body parts. And so what, exactly, is the reason to keep them a big secret?
It defies logic.
We are conditioned to be ashamed of our bodies if they do not match the unreal (literally) photoshopped bodies of 'famous' celebrities. This is part of the reason we hide our nudity - out of this shame. It's incredibly unhealthy psychologically and emotionally.
We shouldn't be flaunting our naked bodies - but we shouldn't be ashamed and terrified of nudity, either. We should view nudity everywhere just like we view nudity in a locker room - it's not flaunted, but it's there. And it's not a big deal at all.
And it's not inherently sexual. It's only sexual if the CONTEXT is sexual.
The naked human body is a natural phenomenon. One can certainly be nude without engaging in sexual activity - just like grapes can be eaten on their own without being produced into wine.
And a woman's period is a natural function of the natural human body.
Why are these things made into a huge 'unacceptable' deal?? Here in North America, we have an extremely immature perspective on the natural human body and its functions.
I understand the women being concerned about wearing all white at Wimbledon for this reason. But, when dissected as to what it really means, evidence of a woman having her period is nothing to be ashamed of. It's perfectly normal.
We need to stop allowing 'society' to determine what is 'good' and what is 'bad', and what is acceptable and what is not - and what is 'comfortable' and what is 'uncomfortable' - because 'society' is wrong more often than it is right - especially here in North America.
by ashkor87 saw a report somewhere that Nadal played a couple of practice matches on grass and lost both of them - to FAA and Tiafoe..in the last couple days.. not good
by Cuckoo4Coco It seems to me that Nadal goes to a different level when it comes to playing a slam. Now I don't know if he will be able to beat Djokovic or even Berretini, but he will be right there at the end and in the mix of it all.
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ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:13 am
saw a report somewhere that Nadal played a couple of practice matches on grass and lost both of them - to FAA and Tiafoe..in the last couple days.. not good
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:34 am
...
To put it differently .those who think Berrettini will win, are positing that he is as great as Federer, McEnroe, Becker..seems a bit of a stretch to me.
I think that at the moment, anybody other than Matteo's family posting that he is as great as those three has to take an anti-doping test. That squarely lands on the "non-sense" side, to me.
He is good, he has a good chance this year. That is as far as I go.
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ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:13 am
saw a report somewhere that Nadal played a couple of practice matches on grass and lost both of them - to FAA and Tiafoe..in the last couple days.. not good
Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. He probably wasn't pushing himself. Might have been working on something. It's similar to the three matches Medvedev lost on grass with bad scorelines this month - the takeaway is that he wasn't playing with full motivation given the circumstances, not that he's bad on grass.
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by meganfernandez Berrerttini out with COVID.. It was reported that Djokovic didn’t look well during his first match. He practiced with Cilic. Is Wimbledon testing?
by the Moz That stinks for Berrettini.
by Cuckoo4Coco
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:16 am
Berrerttini out with COVID.. It was reported that Djokovic didn’t look well during his first match. He practiced with Cilic. Is Wimbledon testing?
You would think they would be testing with now the two cases that have popped up.
by ponchi101 They better. And if I were any top player, I would start wearing a mask, and isolate as much as possible. And get a daily personal antigen test.
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:39 pm
They better. And if I were any top player, I would start wearing a mask, and isolate as much as possible. And get a daily personal antigen test.
They better. They are around a ton of people at this tournament and doing interviews and all sorts of stuff. Better safe than sorry.
by Suliso Not sure how much a mask will help you if you stay in a locker room with someone infected etc. Not going to take a shower with one...
by ponchi101 Sure, but other than being vaccinated, there is so little you can do.
And, now that you bring it up, I would not shower there. I am sure that comfy hotel room has a good shower too.
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:39 pm
They better. And if I were any top player, I would start wearing a mask, and isolate as much as possible.
It's a little surprising to me that there aren't some light protocols in place if positive tests started happening, such as they start wearing masks and creating more space between lockers. That's the case for most other sports, so I guess I just thought they'd have something in place. Also, unlike team sports, it seems like maybe light protocols might really help because I'm not sure there's a ton of shared trainers and therapists, so there's really a chance contact and germs can be greatly reduced. At least here, several of the trainers and conditioning coaches have been the source of the outbreak.
by ponchi101 As you say.
And I have said this before. Imagine one of the top players coming down with C19 before a semis. Talk about a major screw up.
by dryrunguy There's a joke to be cracked here about how the Russians and Belarussians are protected from falling prey to what is beginning to amount to an outbreak. But I can't quite put it together.
by ponchi101 Along the lines of how they will clean up the North American summer circuit because everybody else will be recovering from this?
Yeah, I can't put it together either.
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:24 pm
Along the lines of how they will clean up the North American summer circuit because everybody else will be recovering from this?
Yeah, I can't put it together either.
Maybe something along these lines: If Vladimir Putin were a fundamentalist preacher, he'd be screaming from the Kremlin pulpit that the COVID outbreak at Wimbledon is God's judgment for excluding Russian tennis players.
I know. It needs work.
by ponchi101 "Vladimir Putin, fundamentalist MESSIANIC figure..."
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by JazzNU I haven't seen a fine issued to Tauson for her first round play. Did she actually sustain a new injury in her match? Or is this really more of a rule for lesser known players? The only well known player I can think of that's been fined is Tomic and he's got a reputation obviously and made it a very easy call. But it seems she should've been fined by now given how little she played. Has anyone seen any mention of it?
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JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:44 pm
I haven't seen a fine issued to Tauson for her first round play. Did she actually sustain a new injury in her match? Or is this really more of a rule for lesser known players? The only well known player I can think of that's been fined is Tomic and he's got a reputation obviously and made it a very easy call. But it seems she should've been fined by now given how little she played. Has anyone seen any mention of it?
I didn't see the match but I thought she came in with an injury. I saw lots of people saying that she should not have played.
JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:44 pm
I haven't seen a fine issued to Tauson for her first round play. Did she actually sustain a new injury in her match? Or is this really more of a rule for lesser known players? The only well known player I can think of that's been fined is Tomic and he's got a reputation obviously and made it a very easy call. But it seems she should've been fined by now given how little she played. Has anyone seen any mention of it?
I didn't see the match but I thought she came in with an injury. I saw lots of people saying that she should not have played.
Yes, which seems a clear cut case of needing to pull the first round prize money. But I can't find any reference to it happening.
by ti-amie I have to say that the thought crossed my mind re the prize money and Tauson.
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JazzNU wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:44 pm
I haven't seen a fine issued to Tauson for her first round play. Did she actually sustain a new injury in her match? Or is this really more of a rule for lesser known players? The only well known player I can think of that's been fined is Tomic and he's got a reputation obviously and made it a very easy call. But it seems she should've been fined by now given how little she played. Has anyone seen any mention of it?
Nothing on the subject, and a CLARA TAUSON WIMBLEDON FINE search finds nothing related to what you are mentioning.
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by ti-amie This is a fan pic of Rafa after his match.
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by Cuckoo4Coco A true class act and a champion.
Holy crap Ciara is beautiful.
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Barbora Krejcikova
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Diego Schwartzman
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by ponchi101
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:21 pm
This is a fan pic of Rafa after his match.
What is that on his abs? Is it something with the photo, or is is some kind of scar? It looks pretty big and nasty.
by ti-amie That scar is why I posted the picture. From his appendix surgery a few years ago maybe? It is on his right side.
by Cuckoo4Coco Where did Rafa get his appendix surgery done in some back alley by some back alley surgeon. My oldest brother had to get his out and his scar you can hardly see it.
by texasniteowl I was watching on ESPN and they showed him pulling some physio tape off the right side of his abs. maybe this was before he pulled it off? I didn't get a great look, because it was from the side, but he definitely pulled tape off.
by ti-amie It does look like tape but you hardly ever get this view of him. Like C4C said if that's his scar the surgeon used a butter knife.
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:21 pm
This is a fan pic of Rafa after his match.
What is that on his abs? Is it something with the photo, or is is some kind of scar? It looks pretty big and nasty.
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:52 pm
That scar is why I posted the picture. From his appendix surgery a few years ago maybe? It is on his right side.
I think that's the battery compartment.
He usually only inserts new batteries after the 4th set.
(I say this in the most complimentary manner possible - the guy's drive and determination is incredible.)
by ponchi101 ESPN reports: this has been one of three Grand Slams EVER in which, during the first two rounds, there was not one single 5 set match in which somebody came back from two sets down.
She is certainly having a tournament and in front of her home crowd.
by JazzNU Heather's been playing really great. Fought through that first match and absolutely terrible scheduling and has been getting more confident with each match. But just like with Niemeier and Maria, it won't pay off rankings wise which is truly unfortunate for them, but might help with building confidence for the future. And the money can't hurt and in the case of Jule in particular, be a game changer.
by Cuckoo4Coco Still think tomorrow another veteran player of the women's tour will pull off the upset of the tournament and take down #1 Iga. Alize Cornet I just have that gut feeling because she is a great grass player she will give Iga fits and pull it out.
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Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:49 pm
Still think tomorrow another veteran player of the women's tour will pull off the upset of the tournament and take down #1 Iga. Alize Cornet I just have that gut feeling because she is a great grass player she will give Iga fits and pull it out.
I will be equally impressed with you and Cornet if this happens! You seem pretty confident in the prediction. I just remember Collins demolishing her with power in Australia.
by meganfernandez Semifinalist: Norrie, Paul, Tiafoe or Goffin. Norrie was sick today. (Figuratively.) I don't think I have ever watched Cam Norrie play a full set. Just bits and pieces of matches here and there.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:49 pm
Still think tomorrow another veteran player of the women's tour will pull off the upset of the tournament and take down #1 Iga. Alize Cornet I just have that gut feeling because she is a great grass player she will give Iga fits and pull it out.
I will be equally impressed with you and Cornet if this happens! You seem pretty confident in the prediction. I just remember Collins demolishing her with power in Australia.
It could also be a disaster of a prediction, but I guess you have to go out on a limb sometimes.
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I usually try to vary the players I watch during a Slam but how can I skip Carlitos matches when he's making shots like this?
Wertheim mentioned that he had fewer media requests (where he goes on TV or radio and talks about tennis) and fewer reader questions before Wimbledon.
by Cuckoo4Coco One guy that I really have taken notice of in this tournament and think he just might claw his way really deep into this thing is England's own Cam Norrie. He is not only playing awesome tennis but he has the crowd going crazy at his matches.
COVID-19 cases are surging rapidly in the U.K. (as well as elsewhere).
That, plus the unfair and discriminatory ban of Russian and Belarusian players I think explains most of the lesser attendance/interest.
by ponchi101
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:30 am
One guy that I really have taken notice of in this tournament and think he just might claw his way really deep into this thing is England's own Cam Norrie. He is not only playing awesome tennis but he has the crowd going crazy at his matches.
Totally overlooked, because one has to admit that he has a very poor record in Slams. But indeed, he is playing well, and will have all the crowd behind him. Which in the UK, sometimes can be bad, but he is handling it well. And his next two matches are winnable.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:30 am
One guy that I really have taken notice of in this tournament and think he just might claw his way really deep into this thing is England's own Cam Norrie. He is not only playing awesome tennis but he has the crowd going crazy at his matches.
Totally overlooked, because one has to admit that he has a very poor record in Slams. But indeed, he is playing well, and will have all the crowd behind him. Which in the UK, sometimes can be bad, but he is handling it well. And his next two matches are winnable.
I could definitely see him getting passed Paul and Tiafoe setting up the Djokovic match which would be really tough.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:30 am
One guy that I really have taken notice of in this tournament and think he just might claw his way really deep into this thing is England's own Cam Norrie. He is not only playing awesome tennis but he has the crowd going crazy at his matches.
Totally overlooked, because one has to admit that he has a very poor record in Slams. But indeed, he is playing well, and will have all the crowd behind him. Which in the UK, sometimes can be bad, but he is handling it well. And his next two matches are winnable.
I could definitely see him getting passed Paul and Tiafoe setting up the Djokovic match which would be really tough.
Definitely tough but Norrie is mature enough to not be intimidated, I think. Never know.
He puts me to sleep and the forehand looks weird, so I have never seen him play a whole match. I can’t think of a top 10 player that I have watched less, ever.
Totally overlooked, because one has to admit that he has a very poor record in Slams. But indeed, he is playing well, and will have all the crowd behind him. Which in the UK, sometimes can be bad, but he is handling it well. And his next two matches are winnable.
I could definitely see him getting passed Paul and Tiafoe setting up the Djokovic match which would be really tough.
Definitely tough but Norrie is mature enough to not be intimidated, I think. Never know.
He puts me to sleep and the forehand looks weird, so I have never seen him play a whole match. I can’t think of a top 10 player that I have watched less, ever.
I think in the days to come I will see more of his matches.
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by ponchi101 A grown man admitting he was wrong. How refreshing.
And indeed, I was watching the match at that point, and Sonego was well inside the limits. If Rafa was annoyed by that, he is going to need some medication after his Kyrgios match.
(and I know that is in two rounds, but I don't see that NOT happening).
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by ponchi101 BTW.
Remember when we were talking about the RUSSIAN/BELARUSIAN ban, and how it would screw some people? Let's add:
Rijthoven, Goffin, Kubler (Q) and Tan, low ranked players that made the 4R, and will not see a single point added to their low ranking.
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:50 pm
BTW.
Remember when we were talking about the RUSSIAN/BELARUSIAN ban, and how it would screw some people? Let's add:
Rijthoven, Goffin, Kubler (Q) and Tan, low ranked players that made the 4R, and will not see a single point added to their low ranking.
Wait. What? I obviously missed something somewhere along the line. Why not?
by ponchi101 Nobody is getting points. So, for example, Kubler is ranked 99. Imagine his ranking climb if points had been awarded.
by ashkor87 Apropos Swatek, Tsitsipas etc, one clear lesson is that heavy topspin is difficult to execute on low-bouncing grass..we always knew that but somehow thought talented players could make it work .it may be different in the second week, when the grass gets shorter and scantier but it has certainly been the case in week 1..
by ponchi101 Tomljanovic rented a house for one week. She had to move to a hotel because, of course, she lasted longer.
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This will be an often used meme...
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by Deuce
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:50 pm
BTW.
Remember when we were talking about the RUSSIAN/BELARUSIAN ban, and how it would screw some people? Let's add:
Rijthoven, Goffin, Kubler (Q) and Tan, low ranked players that made the 4R, and will not see a single point added to their low ranking.
And how far would those players (and others - like Botic, etc.) have gotten if the Russian and Belarusian players were there to compete?
We'll never know, of course - but I'd say the absence of the Russians and Belarusians was likely a factor in the lower ranked players getting as far as they have.
by ashkor87 Sad day when the great Stan Smith is mistaken for his greatest rival!
by ponchi101 Pat Cash, leaving us with plenty of doubt of how he really feels about Kirgios. Not.
“It was absolute mayhem,” Cash, the 1987 Wimbledon champ and fellow Aussie, told BBC radio. “He’s brought tennis to the lowest level I can see as far as gamesmanship, cheating, manipulation, abuse, aggressive behavior to umpires, to linesmen.
“He was lucky to even get through the first set, he should have been defaulted in the first set. Something’s got to be done about it, it’s just an absolute circus. Is it entertaining? Yeah, possibly. It’s gone to the absolute limit now.”
---0---
No. It has not gone to the limit. We have yet not seen the limit.
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:01 pm
Pat Cash, leaving us with plenty of doubt of how he really feels about Kirgios. Not.
“It was absolute mayhem,” Cash, the 1987 Wimbledon champ and fellow Aussie, told BBC radio. “He’s brought tennis to the lowest level I can see as far as gamesmanship, cheating, manipulation, abuse, aggressive behavior to umpires, to linesmen.
“He was lucky to even get through the first set, he should have been defaulted in the first set. Something’s got to be done about it, it’s just an absolute circus. Is it entertaining? Yeah, possibly. It’s gone to the absolute limit now.”
---0---
No. It has not gone to the limit. We have yet not seen the limit.
Pat Cash is 100% correct that Kyrgios turns tennis matches into a circus. To me though it is not entertaining at all.
You are correct Ponchi we have not seen it taken to the limit. Not even today with his "You're Done" scream to Brandon Nakashima in the 5th set when he was going up 5 -1. He definitely has more foolishness up his sleeve and unfortunately nothing is being done about it.
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There's a lot of good stuff in Brandon's game. I hope he gets the support he needs.
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Click on the images for the full pictures.
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by ponchi101 Notes from what I saw today.
Rybakina's score does not tell the story. It was not that close. I really like Petra, but she was never in contention for the match.
ESPN interviewed Garin after he left the court. He was still trying to catch his breath. The match was that intense.
by ashkor87 Delighted to see Sania Mirza, greatest woman player ever from India, is in the semis of the mixed doubles.. it is her last Wimbledon.. hope she gets a nice send -off..
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ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:10 pm
Notes from what I saw today.
Rybakina's score does not tell the story. It was not that close. I really like Petra, but she was never in contention for the match.
ESPN interviewed Garin after he left the court. He was still trying to catch his breath. The match was that intense.
Yes, Rybakina is the real untold story of the tournament- while everyone is focused on Badosa and Jabeur, Rybakina is quietly moving along, never on Centre Court (I think)- beautiful game that all young people should watch and learn from , all about timing, not strength and spin..
by Deuce Is Patrick Mouratoglou telling Halep to yell/grunt when she hits the ball?
It seems to me that she is doing this significantly more than she used to.
At least it's not a loud, ear-piercing noise like we hear from some others.
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:41 am
Is Patrick Mouratoglou telling Halep to yell/grunt when she hits the ball?
It seems to me that she is doing this significantly more than she used to.
At least it's not a loud, ear-piercing noise like we hear from some others.
Being someone who grunts when I play my shots, I thought that just came naturally. I would have never thought that it could be something that a coach could tell you to do as a strategy or something like that.
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:41 am
Is Patrick Mouratoglou telling Halep to yell/grunt when she hits the ball?
It seems to me that she is doing this significantly more than she used to.
At least it's not a loud, ear-piercing noise like we hear from some others.
Being someone who grunts when I play my shots, I thought that just came naturally. I would have never thought that it could be something that a coach could tell you to do as a strategy or something like that.
It's amazing that it never 'came naturally' to anyone before Seles, huh?
It is definitely a learned behaviour - if you had never seen pro players grunting, I'll bet that you wouldn't grunt, either.
And, yes, it is also encouraged, and even taught, by some coaches - sometimes as a strategy to disrupt the opponent, and sometimes as a way to 'stabilize' one's energy, or increase power, etc. - all of which I personally think is full of dung.
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:41 am
Is Patrick Mouratoglou telling Halep to yell/grunt when she hits the ball?
It seems to me that she is doing this significantly more than she used to.
At least it's not a loud, ear-piercing noise like we hear from some others.
Being someone who grunts when I play my shots, I thought that just came naturally. I would have never thought that it could be something that a coach could tell you to do as a strategy or something like that.
It's amazing that it never 'came naturally' to anyone before Seles, huh?
It is definitely a learned behaviour - if you had never seen pro players grunting, I'll bet that you wouldn't grunt, either.
And, yes, it is also encouraged, and even taught, by some coaches - sometimes as a strategy to disrupt the opponent, and sometimes as a way to 'stabilize' one's energy, or increase power, etc. - all of which I personally think is full of dung.
I guess you are right. I always feel that I do it because I am increasing my energy or power. Not really sure if the shot is actually going any faster or not and it probably isn't, but the grunting does give me energy though. You're right though if I wouldn't have seen any of the female pro tennis players doing it growing up that I look up to , I probably wouldn't be doing it.
Totally different thing but I also like Bianca Andreescu and when I saw she wore that plastic thing around her arm I thought that was so cool. I was like I need to do something like that. I haven't found my weird thing yet, but definitely the pro tennis players influence me a lot. Thankfully not Nick Kyrgios.
Totally different thing but I also like Bianca Andreescu and when I saw she wore that plastic thing around her arm I thought that was so cool. I was like I need to do something like that. I haven't found my weird thing yet, but definitely the pro tennis players influence me a lot. Thankfully not Nick Kyrgios.
Which would earn you a ban, here
Exhaling (not grunting) as you hit your stroke relaxes you, leading to a more fluid stroke. That leads to more control and an easier swing. Watch sprinters, in slow motion. They time their breathing so the exhaling is in rhythm with their strides. A hard thing to do, that allows them to stride faster.
It took me years to learn to exhale when serving, allowing me to be more relaxed and gain some more speed on my serve. So, proper breathing while playing is very important.
Grunting is when it starts crossing that line to me. I remember watching the Aussie final between Azarenka and Sharapova, in MUTE. Could not deal with the screaming. And, as it was played on a Super BOWL weekend, I dubbed my poll "The Super HOWL" match. Some people thought it was a typo (or, were too polite to point out my dumb sense of humor).
But, if you grunt, you grunt, and if it is controlled, no issues.
Totally different thing but I also like Bianca Andreescu and when I saw she wore that plastic thing around her arm I thought that was so cool. I was like I need to do something like that. I haven't found my weird thing yet, but definitely the pro tennis players influence me a lot. Thankfully not Nick Kyrgios.
Which would earn you a ban, here
Exhaling (not grunting) as you hit your stroke relaxes you, leading to a more fluid stroke. That leads to more control and an easier swing. Watch sprinters, in slow motion. They time their breathing so the exhaling is in rhythm with their strides. A hard thing to do, that allows them to stride faster.
It took me years to learn to exhale when serving, allowing me to be more relaxed and gain some more speed on my serve. So, proper breathing while playing is very important.
Grunting is when it starts crossing that line to me. I remember watching the Aussie final between Azarenka and Sharapova, in MUTE. Could not deal with the screaming. And, as it was played on a Super BOWL weekend, I dubbed my poll "The Super HOWL" match. Some people thought it was a typo (or, were too polite to point out my dumb sense of humor).
But, if you grunt, you grunt, and if it is controlled, no issues.
I really don't find that my grunts are obnoxious and really loud. I have never had any complaining from my opponents and I have played other girls who grunt louder than me.
I will have to concentrate on my breathing. I sometimes because I do use my speed and run down shots a lot expend a lot of my energy on the court that way. I definitely need to focus on my breathing more.
I will have to concentrate on my breathing. I sometimes because I do use my speed and run down shots a lot expend a lot of my energy on the court that way. I definitely need to focus on my breathing more.
Remember we were talking about goals? That would be a short term goal. Ensure that your breathing during a match is proper.
I will have to concentrate on my breathing. I sometimes because I do use my speed and run down shots a lot expend a lot of my energy on the court that way. I definitely need to focus on my breathing more.
Remember we were talking about goals? That would be a short term goal. Ensure that your breathing during a match is proper.
I will have to concentrate on my breathing. I sometimes because I do use my speed and run down shots a lot expend a lot of my energy on the court that way. I definitely need to focus on my breathing more.
Remember we were talking about goals? That would be a short term goal. Ensure that your breathing during a match is proper.
That would be a really good one.
I'm going to exhale on my serve tonight and see what happens. Playing a league match. I envision sending them all into the back tarp.
by ponchi101 Exhale AS you are serving, so that the motion of your arm is in sync with your breathe going out.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:24 pm
Exhale AS you are serving, so that the motion of your arm is in sync with your breathe going out.
I just got back from practice and I was doing it and I must have always been doing it because my serve really didn't change that much. I guess today I was just thinking about the breathing more than I was before.
by ponchi101 Well, it is not a miracle pill, and yes, maybe you were already doing it. But some people don't realize they are holding their breath when they strike the ball. Those need a little bit of a tip.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:57 pm
Well, it is not a miracle pill, and yes, maybe you were already doing it. But some people don't realize they are holding their breath when they strike the ball. Those need a little bit of a tip.
I am almost certain I was not holding my breath when I was hitting the ball. I don't think I could grunt if I was holding my breath. Also my coach would have had me stop that pretty quickly if I was.
by ponchi101 Allow me the horrible metaphor: if you are holding your breath when you hit the ball and there's still a grunting sound, your problems are digestive
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:57 pm
Well, it is not a miracle pill, and yes, maybe you were already doing it. But some people don't realize they are holding their breath when they strike the ball. Those need a little bit of a tip.
^ That is absolute and utter BS.
Tennis needs to take a good, hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to be a respectable, legitimate, honest sport, or if it wants to go the full 'entertainment' route like the WWE and UFC.
I have a big problem with underhanded serves. I find them to be an underhanded tactic. The reason is because, with a traditional overhand serve, the receiver sees the wind-up, and so can time the split step, or whatever he/she does to return.
The underhand serve can easily be done (and is most often done) to completely surprise the receiver when the receiver is not ready. It's the same as a quick pitch in baseball (pitcher throwing when the batter isn't ready) - which is not permitted in baseball. The entire purpose of the underhand serve is to catch the receiver by surprise. And that's complete BS and extremely poor sportsmanship in my book.
It's very different than a drop shot during a point - which is a fair and legitimate play... because a drop shot is played while the opponent is moving and active and ready. The underhand serve is done when the receiver is completely flat-footed.
The underhand serve needs to be banned before tennis turns into the WWE.
^ That is absolute and utter BS.
Tennis needs to take a good, hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to be a respectable, legitimate, honest sport, or if it wants to go the full 'entertainment' route like the WWE and UFC.
I have a big problem with underhanded serves. I find them to be an underhanded tactic. The reason is because, with a traditional overhand serve, the receiver sees the wind-up, and so can time the split step, or whatever he/she does to return.
The underhand serve can easily be done (and is most often done) to completely surprise the receiver when the receiver is not ready. It's the same as a quick pitch in baseball (pitcher throwing when the batter isn't ready) - which is not permitted in baseball. The entire purpose of the underhand serve is to catch the receiver by surprise. And that's complete BS and extremely poor sportsmanship in my book.
It's very different than a drop shot during a point - which is a fair and legitimate play... because a drop shot is played while the opponent is moving and active and ready. The underhand serve is done when the receiver is completely flat-footed.
The underhand serve needs to be banned before tennis turns into the WWE.
I am gonna play a little Devils Advocate here because I am also not really an advocate for the underhand serve, but what if the player is in the deciding set and just a few points away from winning the match and they are cramping badly and they are unable to complete the service motion without being in terrible pain? Do they still try and toss the ball and just bloop the ball in or is it ok to do the underhand serve or should they just retire even though they are so close to winning the match?
by Deuce That was obviously not the case in the video clip of the kid on match point...
And it's not the case when Kyrgios does it, either. In those situations, it's not done due to any type of injury - and that's what I commented on.
If it's a legitimate injury that prevents them from serving normally, then they can serve underhanded, and that's fine. Just don't do it to deliberately catch your opponent off guard or by surprise, because that's not fair.
Serving underhanded while making your opponent aware that that is what you're doing is ok. Obviously, it's foolish, because it won't win you too many points - but if it's the only option available to you due to legitimate injury, then fine - just don't use it to try to win the point by surprise.
by Cuckoo4Coco
Deuce wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:31 am
If it's a legitimate injury that prevents them from serving normally, then they can serve underhanded, and that's fine. Just don't do it to deliberately catch your opponent off guard or by surprise, because that's not fair.
Serving underhanded while making your opponent aware that that is what you're doing is ok. Obviously, it's foolish, because it won't win you too many points - but if it's the only option available to you due to legitimate injury, then fine - just don't use it to try to win the point by surprise.
I agree with you. It is just another way of trying to turn the game of tennis into somewhat of a circus show. This is the main reason why Stef got so frustrated and slammed the ball off a Kyrgios underhand serve to the back wall in their match the other day. I have been learning and playing the game of tennis since the age of 5 and I really think the people that have taught me in the past and now have taught me the proper way to play the game. I will probably never have the talent that Nick Kyrgios has for the game of tennis, but I do know one thing is I will play the game correctly and he has missed the boat with that aspect.
by ashkor87 This Djokovic trick of taking a bathroom break to turn the match around is borderline unethical..I think..what do folks here think of it?
Am happy to see the Indian 'namaste' gesture has become global!
It was always used by Christians especially but more for prayer than 'thank you' or 'hullo'..
^ That is absolute and utter BS.
Tennis needs to take a good, hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to be a respectable, legitimate, honest sport, or if it wants to go the full 'entertainment' route like the WWE and UFC.
I have a big problem with underhanded serves. I find them to be an underhanded tactic. The reason is because, with a traditional overhand serve, the receiver sees the wind-up, and so can time the split step, or whatever he/she does to return.
The underhand serve can easily be done (and is most often done) to completely surprise the receiver when the receiver is not ready. It's the same as a quick pitch in baseball (pitcher throwing when the batter isn't ready) - which is not permitted in baseball. The entire purpose of the underhand serve is to catch the receiver by surprise. And that's complete BS and extremely poor sportsmanship in my book.
It's very different than a drop shot during a point - which is a fair and legitimate play... because a drop shot is played while the opponent is moving and active and ready. The underhand serve is done when the receiver is completely flat-footed.
The underhand serve needs to be banned before tennis turns into the WWE.
I am gonna play a little Devils Advocate here because I am also not really an advocate for the underhand serve, but what if the player is in the deciding set and just a few points away from winning the match and they are cramping badly and they are unable to complete the service motion without being in terrible pain? Do they still try and toss the ball and just bloop the ball in or is it ok to do the underhand serve or should they just retire even though they are so close to winning the match?
Ever heard of Michael Chang and his famous underhand serve in the 1989 French Open, when he was cramping vs Lendl? If not, YouTube it. It’s one of the most famous plays in modern history.
by meganfernandez
ashkor87 wrote:This Djokovic trick of taking a bathroom break to turn the match around is borderline unethical..I think..what do folks here think of it?
Doesn’t bother me. It’s pretty low on my list of complaints about tennis. It would be impossible to tell whether someone really has to go to the bathroom or not, even with the convenient timing. Players need to be able to use the bathroom during a match. And any player can do this. So I just can’t muster any outrage. Pretty soon, the opponent will be able to consult with their coach during that time, so it won’t really disadvantage the opponent.
ashkor87 wrote:This Djokovic trick of taking a bathroom break to turn the match around is borderline unethical..I think..what do folks here think of it?
Doesn’t bother me. It’s pretty low on my list of complaints about tennis. It would be impossible to tell whether someone really has to go to the bathroom or not, even with the convenient timing. Players need to be able to use the bathroom during a match. And any player can do this. So I just can’t muster any outrage. Pretty soon, the opponent will be able to consult with their coach during that time, so it won’t really disadvantage the opponent.
^ I agree.
It's no different than a time-out, which other sports have. Some other sports even allow several time-outs.
If the match is not going your way, and you need a bit of time to reset, that's fine. I see it as being part of the game, and have no problem with the 'ethics' of it.
If it disturbs your opponent at the same time as it allows you to reset, then that's the opponent's weakness, and out of your control. If the opponent loses focus because of a break in the play, that's a deficiency on their part.
I also believe that Djokovic would have won that match with or without the bathroom break.
What I did see as 'unethical' was Sonego's campaigning for the roof to be closed the other day far sooner than it needed to be closed. He did this purely to give himself an advantage, and disadvantage Nadal at the same time.
by ashkor87 As of today, my probability estimates:
Men: Djokovic 60%, Kyrgios 30%, Nadal 10%
Women: Halep 40%, Jabeur 30%, Rybakina 20%, Anisimova 10%
of course, 3 of them have to play one more match than Jabeur, which shows in the estimates..
ashkor87 wrote:This Djokovic trick of taking a bathroom break to turn the match around is borderline unethical..I think..what do folks here think of it?
Doesn’t bother me. It’s pretty low on my list of complaints about tennis. It would be impossible to tell whether someone really has to go to the bathroom or not, even with the convenient timing. Players need to be able to use the bathroom during a match. And any player can do this. So I just can’t muster any outrage. Pretty soon, the opponent will be able to consult with their coach during that time, so it won’t really disadvantage the opponent.
^ I agree.
It's no different than a time-out, which other sports have. Some other sports even allow several time-outs.
If the match is not going your way, and you need a bit of time to reset, that's fine. I see it as being part of the game, and have no problem with the 'ethics' of it.
If it disturbs your opponent at the same time as it allows you to reset, then that's the opponent's weakness, and out of your control. If the opponent loses focus because of a break in the play, that's a deficiency on their part.
I also believe that Djokovic would have won that match with or without the bathroom break.
What I did see as 'unethical' was Sonego's campaigning for the roof to be closed the other day far sooner than it needed to be closed. He did this purely to give himself an advantage, and disadvantage Nadal at the same time.
but isnt play supposed to be continuous?
by ashkor87 Quoting the 'official rules of tennis'
the clear intent is that play should be continuous.. everything else is an exception!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a principle, play should be continuous, from the time the match starts (when the
first service of the match is put in play) until the match finishes.
a. Between points, a maximum of twenty (20) seconds is allowed. When the
players change ends at the end of a game, a maximum of ninety (90) seconds
are allowed. However, after the first game of each set and during a tie-break
game, play shall be continuous and the players shall change ends without a
rest. At the end of each set there shall be a set break of a maximum of one hundred
and twenty (120) seconds. The maximum time starts from the moment that one point finishes until the first service is
struck for the next point. Event organizers may apply for ITF approval to extend the ninety (90)
seconds allowed when the players change ends at the end of a game and the
one hundred and twenty (120) seconds allowed at a set break.
b. If, for reasons outside the player’s control, clothing, footwear or necessary
equipment (excluding the racket) is broken or needs to be replaced, the player
may be allowed reasonable extra time to rectify the problem.
c. No extra time shall be given to allow a player to recover condition. However,
a player suffering from a treatable medical condition may be allowed one
medical time-out of three minutes for the treatment of that medical condition.
A limited number of toilet/change of attire breaks may also be allowed, if this
is announced in advance of the event.
d. Event organizers may allow a rest period of a maximum of ten (10) minutes if
this is announced in advance of the event. This rest period can be taken after
the 3rd set in a best of 5 sets match, or after the 2nd set in a best of 3 sets
match.
e. The warm-up time shall be a maximum of five (5) minutes, unless otherwise
decided by the event organizers.
by Deuce What year is that ^ from?
It mentions a maximum of 20 seconds between points when it's been 25 seconds for a while now...
And it mentions that "toilet/change of attire breaks" are permitted, as we all know.
So I don't see how it can state that 'play shall be continuous' while at the same time allowing for bathroom breaks - that's simply contradictory and illogical.
In any case, the fact is that bathroom (and/or change of attire) breaks are permitted - so it comes down to individual interpretation as to whether the timing of such breaks is 'poor sportsmanship', or 'unethical', or not.
As I stated, I have no problem with Djokovic (or any other player) taking a time-out to reset themselves. Other sports allow it - and there's a valid reason they're permitted. So why not in tennis, as well?
by ashkor87 Yes, interpretation..that is why I said 'borderline'..my interpretation is it is not quite ok..someone else may disagree..but it is worth a ponder...
by 3mlm The Rules of Tennis 2022 on the ITF site does have the change to 25 seconds. Otherwise the wording is the same.
by ashkor87 And the spirit of the game has not changed..though 20 may have changed to 25!
Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:22 pm
^ That is absolute and utter BS.
Tennis needs to take a good, hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to be a respectable, legitimate, honest sport, or if it wants to go the full 'entertainment' route like the WWE and UFC.
I have a big problem with underhanded serves. I find them to be an underhanded tactic. The reason is because, with a traditional overhand serve, the receiver sees the wind-up, and so can time the split step, or whatever he/she does to return.
The underhand serve can easily be done (and is most often done) to completely surprise the receiver when the receiver is not ready. It's the same as a quick pitch in baseball (pitcher throwing when the batter isn't ready) - which is not permitted in baseball. The entire purpose of the underhand serve is to catch the receiver by surprise. And that's complete BS and extremely poor sportsmanship in my book.
It's very different than a drop shot during a point - which is a fair and legitimate play... because a drop shot is played while the opponent is moving and active and ready. The underhand serve is done when the receiver is completely flat-footed.
The underhand serve needs to be banned before tennis turns into the WWE.
I am gonna play a little Devils Advocate here because I am also not really an advocate for the underhand serve, but what if the player is in the deciding set and just a few points away from winning the match and they are cramping badly and they are unable to complete the service motion without being in terrible pain? Do they still try and toss the ball and just bloop the ball in or is it ok to do the underhand serve or should they just retire even though they are so close to winning the match?
Ever heard of Michael Chang and his famous underhand serve in the 1989 French Open, when he was cramping vs Lendl? If not, YouTube it. It’s one of the most famous plays in modern history.
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:
I am gonna play a little Devils Advocate here because I am also not really an advocate for the underhand serve, but what if the player is in the deciding set and just a few points away from winning the match and they are cramping badly and they are unable to complete the service motion without being in terrible pain? Do they still try and toss the ball and just bloop the ball in or is it ok to do the underhand serve or should they just retire even though they are so close to winning the match?
Ever heard of Michael Chang and his famous underhand serve in the 1989 French Open, when he was cramping vs Lendl? If not, YouTube it. It’s one of the most famous plays in modern history.
I don't know of it, but I will look it up.
Here you go. Chang was a teenager when he won. This match is an incredible story. Ivan Lendl was a champion by then - maybe No. 1 in the world at the time. A machine.
meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:54 am
Ever heard of Michael Chang and his famous underhand serve in the 1989 French Open, when he was cramping vs Lendl? If not, YouTube it. It’s one of the most famous plays in modern history.
I don't know of it, but I will look it up.
Here you go. Chang was a teenager when he won. This match is an incredible story. Ivan Lendl was a champion by then - maybe No. 1 in the world at the time. A machine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is so awesome. The one thing I got out of that underhand serve is Chang said it had spin on it and with that and the fact it also caught Lendl off guard and his return shot clipped the net really helped that shot give him the winner. Chang must have also been even at the age of 17 years old a very good mental player.
by ponchi101 Lendl was #1, and, of course, the #1 seed. The circumstance were different: Chang was cramping badly, and no, he was not faking it in any way. He could barely push up with his legs to serve.
Lendl was asked about that serve after the match. He dismissed any thoughts of it being gamesmanship.
by Cuckoo4Coco When you are cramping or injured I think you do anything you possibly can to win points and stay in the match that is within the rules of the game.
by meganfernandez
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:26 pm
Lendl was #1, and, of course, the #1 seed. The circumstance were different: Chang was cramping badly, and no, he was not faking it in any way. He could barely push up with his legs to serve.
Lendl was asked about that serve after the match. He dismissed any thoughts of it being gamesmanship.
I didn't know until watching the video that Chang walked to the umpire's chair to retire in the fifth set. He stopped at the service line and had a change of heart. Said he didn't want to be known as a quitter. A decision that changed his life.
by ponchi101 His sole slam, and yes, he had a reputation as a fighter. Because he really had very little else. Very much the David Ferrer of his days.
by Cuckoo4Coco What I also liked from the video is when he said how little he was and not very many men players were like him on the tour. I am a female and there are more smaller players than small male players on the tour but I always cheer for the small players like Simona Halep.
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by Cuckoo4Coco Spot on reply by Taylor Fritz.
by ti-amie Tennis "journalists"
by ti-amieWimbledon tells players to tighten their belts and stop using all of their £90 daily food allowance as canteens struggle to meet demand after one coach put through 27 bottles of probiotic yoghurt drink
The coach bought a huge amount of yoghurt to use up the rest of their cash
The All England Tennis Club has asked players to be 'judicious' when buying food
Players are given £90 a day to buy food and drink while their coaches get £45
The news comes after Australian star Kyrgios at sushi during a press conference
By ALASTAIR LOCKHART FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 06:59 EDT, 5 July 2022 | UPDATED: 12:09 EDT, 5 July 2022
Wimbledon players have been warned to stop buying unnecessary food after a coach bought 27 bottles of yoghurt at once to get the most out of their allowance.
Players and coaches at Wimbledon have been buying food and drink using the daily allowance given to them by the All England Club.
Athletes have £90 a day to spend on food and drink at the cafes and food stands at Wimbledon, while their coaches are given £45.
This has led to coaches and players picking up more food than they need to use up their money for the day, as they seem to treat the allowance as a target rather than a cap.
One Wimbledon coach even went so far as to buy 27 bottles of a probiotic yoghurt drink to use up the rest of their cash, the i reported.
The All England Club has now written to players asking them to be 'judicious' when choosing how to spend their daily allowance.
The players lounge at the All England Club (pictured) has a number of spots where players can buy food, including a sushi bar
Players use electronic tags they wear around their neck to buy from six outlets on the Wimbledon grounds including sandwich bars, restaurants, cafes and even a sushi bar in the Players' Lounge next to Centre Court.
The outlets offer a wide range of food to athlete to cater to their specific dietary requirements.
Although players and coaches are catered for, food and drink for visiting fans can be hugely expensive at Wimbledon.
A three-course meal at the Wingfield restaurant on the grounds costs £95 per person, while the newly-opened Centenary Seafood Bar offers dishes for two for £70.
Less expensive options are also available, with sausage rolls and sandwiches on sale for around £4 while a Kyrgios-style sushi selection costs £7.90.
A pint of beer will usually cost spectators £6.50, while a bottle of champagne can cost up to £89.50.
However, visitors can also treat themselves to Wimbledon's famous strawberries and cream for just £2.50 each.
Quartet-finalist Nick Kyrgios, 27, raised eyebrows when he ate sushi during a Wimbledon press conference.
by ponchi101 Not in the UK. A meal for one in Europe will be around Euro 40. And that is me, a lightweight that always splits an entrée and main dish, plus dessert, with his GF. One of this guys burning 6,000 cals a day between training and playing a match needs A LOT, and it must be A LOT, of sushi.
by ti-amie I really don't understand what the problem is. You're given a stipend of ~$108 per day for food. Why wouldn't you spend it for - food? If a guy wanted all that yogurt so what? If a person wanted to eat sushi so what? I bet if you don't use it you can't take it as part of your prize money so again, what is the problem?!
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:50 pm
Not in the UK. A meal for one in Europe will be around Euro 40. And that is me, a lightweight that always splits an entrée and main dish, plus dessert, with his GF. One of this guys burning 6,000 cals a day between training and playing a match needs A LOT, and it must be A LOT, of sushi.
It is a good thing that they have a lot of cash in their bank accounts then to throw around other than the extra 108 dollars per day.
by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:23 am
I really don't understand what the problem is. You're given a stipend of ~$108 per day for food. Why wouldn't you spend it for - food? If a guy wanted all that yogurt so what? If a person wanted to eat sushi so what? I bet if you don't use it you can't take it as part of your prize money so again, what is the problem?!
The problem, as outlined in the article you posted, is that the canteens are running out of food because these players and coaches are insisting on using every penny of their daily allowance for food they don't need.
From the article: "Wimbledon tells players to tighten their belts and stop using all of their £90 daily food allowance as canteens struggle to meet demand..."
"This has led to coaches and players picking up more food than they need to use up their money for the day, as they seem to treat the allowance as a target rather than a cap."
It's not enough that they are treated as demi-gods... It's horribly typical of spoiled people to take as much as they possibly can. It's all about WANT, not NEED. And spoiled people feel they deserve everything they WANT. 'He who has the most toys wins.'
It's incredibly sad from a societal and egalitarian perspective.
by ashkor87 I was sad to see no proper send-off for Sania Mirza..she is a great champion, several majors..they made a bigger fuss of Flipkens..oh well.
by Suliso
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:50 pm
Not in the UK. A meal for one in Europe will be around Euro 40. And that is me, a lightweight that always splits an entrée and main dish, plus dessert, with his GF. One of this guys burning 6,000 cals a day between training and playing a match needs A LOT, and it must be A LOT, of sushi.
You've not been here for some time it seems. In Switzerland standard meal in a regular place will be 25-35 euros (no alcohol).
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:50 pm
Not in the UK. A meal for one in Europe will be around Euro 40. And that is me, a lightweight that always splits an entrée and main dish, plus dessert, with his GF. One of this guys burning 6,000 cals a day between training and playing a match needs A LOT, and it must be A LOT, of sushi.
You've not been here for some time it seems. In Switzerland standard meal in a regular place will be 25-35 euros (no alcohol).
Last meal I had in Europe was in France, and it was around that E40 mark (I billed by company for it). So, if you can eat for 25 in Switzerland, I find it rather reasonable.
You certainly must know better than I.
by Suliso There are some areas in Switzerland (Zermatt!!!) where you'd pay 40 euros for a plate of potatoes, but those tend to be in posh resorts aimed at people who don't care.
by ponchi101 If I ever go to Switzerland, you will have to draw me a map of where NOT to go.
Sure, there are always places that are outrageous. But coming back to the issue. 90 pounds sounds like enough, but for a high performance athlete, it may be borderline. After a 4 hour battle, one roll of sushi is certainly not enough fuel to put back in the tank. I am also sure that top notch athletes do not eat like us: they do not have three meals a day; most likely, three full meals, and a series of high power snacks throughout.
I remember Michael Phelps once showing what his breakfast was. It was around 12,000 Cals, because he needed to pack that much for a full day in the pool.
I am sure Novak eats a lot of "special" food. Rafa too. You don't get that level of fitness with a bowl of corn-flakes in the morning.
by JTContinental Nadal is out, per Twitter.
by Suliso For once he made a smart decision on matters like this. Fritz will be hopping mad, though.
by ponchi101 Giving a press conference as we speak. His decision to keep playing "was the right one, because I won the match. But I can't win two matches (being) like this".
Help us, Novak Wan Kanobi. You are last and only hope.
(I am going to be rooting for Novak Djokovic on Sunday. I am sure I will be revolted with myself by Sunday afternoon. Unless, of course, Zeus, Odin, Quetzalcoatl and all other deities exist and Norrie can.... nah, I am hallucinating already).
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:31 pm
For once he made a smart decision on matters like this. Fritz will be hopping mad, though.
Time to start talking about Lucky Losers AFTER the tournament starts? Just wondering. It blows an entire hole on tomorrow.
by JazzNU
by Cuckoo4Coco Nadal being out is really tough. What a horrible way to go out after a very hard fought match and win against Fritz.
I have got to be rooting for Novak against Nick and even if somehow Norrie beats Novak tomorrow I will be praying that Norrie can somehow upset Kyrgios.
by ponchi101 Anybody that can/could beat Novak at Wimbledon, can beat the other 126 players in the draw. If Norrie upsets Novak, he has to complete the feat.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:54 pm
Anybody that can/could beat Novak at Wimbledon, can beat the other 126 players in the draw. If Norrie upsets Novak, he has to complete the feat.
Then I will along with everyone else in England be cheering on Norrie in tomorrow' s match if there is some chance that he can beat Nick in the final. I just don't want Nick to win it all. Out of the three of them I would love to see Norrie win it all.
by ti-amie I think everyone including me is pulling for Norrie. I don't know if he can beat Djokovic and Kyrgios but I'm hoping the crowd carries him over the finish line.
by Suliso I'd not put a lot of money on Norrie if I were into betting...
by Cuckoo4Coco
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:00 pm
I think everyone including me is pulling for Norrie. I don't know if he can beat Djokovic and Kyrgios but I'm hoping the crowd carries him over the finish line.
The crowd will be a part of it, but they don't play the points. I hope he can do it too. I will be cheering him on.
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Thank you Taylor Fritz
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C'mon man
by ti-amie
Mansour Bahrami
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by ashkor87
ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:00 pm
I think everyone including me is pulling for Norrie. I don't know if he can beat Djokovic and Kyrgios but I'm hoping the crowd carries him over the finish line.
Not me
by ponchi101 Right now. The tennis genie shows up and offers me this deal:
You can let this be played out.
Or
You can assure that Norrie wins, but you will get C19.
I can certainly spend a week in bed. No problems there.
Some much-needed appreciation for a great career..as a Muslim woman, she always had to clear one more hurdle than others...by far, and I mean by miles and miles, the best woman player ever from India.
by ashkor87 And her husband was captain of the Pakistan cricket team ..! You can imagine how well that went down in a country as crazy about cricket as India..
by ponchi101 I remember that. I am not a "fan" of cricket because, being in South America, the sport is basically unknown here. But I do like it a lot, and follow it when I get the luck to work in the middle or far east. So I know how Indians feel about cricket. Given the choice between being president of India, or a cricket star, I would say 75% of kids will choose cricket.
That's a significantly more difficult shot to hit than the between the legs shot.
The between the legs shot isn't really that difficult, and is often the best option when running down a lob.
But this shot is really difficult even at 24 years old, let alone at 66.
by Fastbackss I'll be the representative of the unpopular opinion - I want to see kyrgios win.
I am (presumptively) looking forward to the battle between him and Djokovic. I think he will push Novak.
by Suliso You meant to say you want Djokovic to win today, right?
by Fastbackss
Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:10 pm
You meant to say you want Djokovic to win today, right?
Yes, to have the battle with Kyrgios, where hopefully Novak loses.
by ashkor87 I want Djokovic to win this title..he has been robbed of the AO.
by ponchi101 Mansour Bahrami. He grew up playing, in Iran, with a wooden racket.
Not a racquet with a WOOD frame. Where the strings should have been, he had a piece of wood. So he had incredible touch, when he was a pro.
by Cuckoo4Coco I want Cam Norrie to win the title.
by ashkor87 If Djokovic plays like he did today, Kyrgios will beat him..although it has been a long long time since Anyone beat Djokovic at Wimbledon
by ponchi101 An extremely small sample, but Kyrgios is 2-0. Both matches in 2017, hard courts, straight sets, with 2 TB sets.
With Kyrgios in the final, the question will come down to: will he go ballistic at one time during the match? Because if he does, that would be his doom.
by Cuckoo4Coco It would be a complete embarrassment to him to go completely off in the final on Centre Court, in front of the Royals. I actually think he will sort of keep it under control in this match. At least under control for him.
by ponchi101 Kyrgios could be playing a match at a monastery and would still curse.
by dave g
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:45 pm
Kyrgios could be playing a match hitting a ball against the wall at a monastery and would still curse.
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:45 pm
Kyrgios could be playing a match hitting a ball against the wall at a monastery and would still curse.
by Cuckoo4Coco Almost all the time I hear cursing on the court it is coming from a male player. I know it has to happen with the female players, but not nearly as often. I am watching a Juniors Doubles match right now and they recently gave a code violation to one of the players for cursing. These players are 16 to 18 years old. Now I know they are boys and they do curse more than us girls do and i have not seen any of the Junior girls cursing on the court yet. I am not saying us girls are perfect because I know I have even mumbled a few curse words under my breath while playing. So it happens.
by ponchi101 In the article posted by The Moz, the umpires explain about how they have to gauge when and how the words were said.
Flashback to the 1990's. Gaston Gaudio is playing against Greg Rusedski, and simply cannot return his serve. Gaudio grabs his cap, pulls it down over his eyes, walks to the backcourt and says (in Spanish): What a day. What a (expletive) day!.
Right on top of the ambient microphone.
Of course, it made no difference to the people because this was in the USA, but the spanish broadcast caught it all. Javier Frana, former top 15 and fellow Argentinean (to Gaudio), simply said: "Some days are worse..."
From the article:
Speaking ahead of his maiden grand slam final, he said: “The greats of Australian tennis, they haven’t always been the nicest to me personally. They haven't always been supportive. They haven’t been supportive these two weeks. So it’s hard for me to kind of read things that they say about me.”
Declaring his Davis Cup captain Lleyton Hewitt – the last Australian to win the Wimbledon men’s singles title – the sole exception, he added: “It’s pretty sad because I don’t get any support from any of the other Australian tennis players, the male side. Not the players, but like the past greats. It’s weird they just have like a sick obsession with tearing me down for some reason.
---0---
Indeed. Why would all these Australian Gentlemen be non-supportive of this fine, young man? (On court. I have made it clear that off the court he has shown to be a nice person, in the past, and pending the resolution of these abuse allegations).
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:22 pm
In the article posted by The Moz, the umpires explain about how they have to gauge when and how the words were said.
Flashback to the 1990's. Gaston Gaudio is playing against Greg Rusedski, and simply cannot return his serve. Gaudio grabs his cap, pulls it down over his eyes, walks to the backcourt and says (in Spanish): What a day. What a (expletive) day!.
Right on top of the ambient microphone.
Of course, it made no difference to the people because this was in the USA, but the spanish broadcast caught it all. Javier Frana, former top 15 and fellow Argentinean (to Gaudio), simply said: "Some days are worse..."
My ancestry is from Brazil. My Great Grandparents are from there and even one of my Great Grand Moms is still alive and is living there. I don't know how to speak Portuguese , but my Grandparents do and my mom does a very little including curse words which I have picked up a few mostly from my two older brothers and I will a lot of times mumble those under my breath on the court.
by Cuckoo4Coco God these wheelchair players are out of this world. This Men's Double's SF is so exciting and entertaining to watch.
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Rege-Jean Page center right. He played the "sexy duke" in S1 Bridgerton
Wayne Rooney (Center)
A brown suit though David?
by ti-amie
Simone Ashley, this years Bridgerton leading lady, is on the left. Michelle Dockery, Lady Mary of Downton Abbey is on the right.
by ashkor87 The way Kyrgios has been playing, and Djokovic',s shaky starts, I would expect Kyrgios to win this..he would be a worthy champion..great serve, good movement, good volleys, good forehand, self-belief..he has what a Wimbledon champion should have
by ponchi101 He does not have a good FH, he has a great one. In the last match, he smacked one at 110MPH. That is not just "good".
I don't think anybody has ever complained about his game; many people, many here, have said how great his strokes are.
It is just the other aspects that at times cause some problems. Otherwise, his fans would be legions (more than already).
by ashkor87 Apropos both finals I often feel the best response to a big serve is not a great return, it is a bigger serve...nobody can serve 'bigger' than Kyrgios and Rybakina...the serve is much under-rated , especially on grass..I remember the great 'near-upset' when Ashe nearly beat Laver..I think it was '68..everyone, especially the media, who only looks at drama, credited Ashe's aggression and fire- when I saw the YouTube video, it seemed clear the difference was Laver wasn't getting his first serve in, the first 2 sets- when he did, it was soon over..even for someone as great as Laver, first serve is critical.
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:16 am
The way Kyrgios has been playing, and Djokovic',s shaky starts, I would expect Kyrgios to win this..he would be a worthy champion..great serve, good movement, good volleys, good forehand, self-belief..he has what a Wimbledon champion should have
^ Except the most important thing - class.
by ashkor87 He has class, just not the way most people define it. Class, in my usage, is not about behavior..it is purely about your inherent tennis ability
by Deuce Class, the way that the great majority of people define it, is certainly about one's behaviour and character.
And by that definition, Kyrgios has no class.
He has no class, and he has no respect for tennis fans (unless they are Kyrgios fans, of course), he has no respect for tennis officials, he has no respect for tennis tournaments, and he has no respect for professional tennis.
He loves the game of tennis in the same genuine and passionate manner that a child would... but he hates everything about pro tennis, and shows it no respect.
But he somehow expects people - and pro tennis - to respect him.
by ashkor87 Just not the way I use the word..we use it a lot in cricket- not so much in the US or Europe .eg what a classy batsman! It has to do with the the ease, the timing, the feeling that he/she seems to be able to do whatever he/she wants to, with the ball. It is about inherent talent - hence the phrase, again, not much used in countries who (sadly) do not play cricket 'form is temporary, class is permanent' - Virat Kohli is struggling these days but everyone knows he will strike form one day - because he has class.
by ponchi101 Would you agree with: he is NOT a gentleman on court? I mean, I see you cricket-lingo explanation, but this man has done things on court that are far from the spirit of the game.
Or, admittedly, the spirit I would like to see in the game. Again, my calendar keeps getting more gray.
by Deuce Seeing as this is officially referred to as the 'Gentleman's Singles Final' at Wimbledon, perhaps Kyrgios could/should be disqualified simply because he obviously does not qualify as a 'gentleman'.
I think I'd be in favour of that...
Tennis - and indeed, life - is about more than the talent or ability one possesses for a certain task. Comportment matters.
I don't understand how anyone can completely disregard one's behaviour/comportment/character, and look only at one's ability to perform a particular task. An ability to perform a task is a very, very small portion of the person.
A person's comportment/character is a far more significant and important element of the person than the mere ability to perform a certain task. And so I feel that people should be assessed more on their comportment/character than on their ability to perform a specific task.
by ponchi101 Just one of the many comments currently on-line, after Rybakina's win. Just because I felt it was a very well condensed analysis:
"Despite the ban, a born and raised Russian ended up winning the title anyway, emphasizing how pointless and punitive the controversial ban was to begin with. It’s not clear if Rybakina continues to live and train in Moscow, but even if she does, she had the same part in the invasion of Ukraine as absent players Daniil Medvedev, Aryna Sabalenka, and Andrey Rublev did: none."
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Sometimes, a writer can indeed summarize something briefly, succinctly and clearly. To those of us that appreciate written analysis, wonderful writing.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:14 pm
Just one of the many comments currently on-line, after Rybakina's win. Just because I felt it was a very well condensed analysis:
"Despite the ban, a born and raised Russian ended up winning the title anyway, emphasizing how pointless and punitive the controversial ban was to begin with. It’s not clear if Rybakina continues to live and train in Moscow, but even if she does, she had the same part in the invasion of Ukraine as absent players Daniil Medvedev, Aryna Sabalenka, and Andrey Rublev did: none."
---0---
Sometimes, a writer can indeed summarize something briefly, succinctly and clearly. To those of us that appreciate written analysis, wonderful writing.
1 billion % in agreement with this. These players had nothing to do with the invasion of Ukraine and I would say that all of them are against it. It was totally the wrong decision to ban these athletes from playing in this event. The thing that blows my mind and some of you might disagree with me on this, but Wimbledon allowed Novak Djokovic to participate in the tournament although he refuses to get vaccinated and 3 players come down with Covid during the event, but they ban the Russian athletes from the event that had no involvement at all in the Ukraine invasion. It doesn't make any sense at all. Now I am not saying that Novak was the cause of these players of getting Covid because he wasn't, but this is something that Wimbledon should have taken way more seriously than the banning of the Russian players who had zero involvement in this crisis in Ukraine. This is just my 2 cents.
I watched this match today and I say in 5 years she will be in the top 10.
by ti-amie
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by ti-amie L'ÉQUIPE
@lequipe
«Nous avons remporté Wimbledon», se félicite le président de la fédération russe http://ow.ly/JXvX50JSaOW
Translated from French by
"We won Wimbledon", welcomes the president of the Russian federation http://ow.ly/JXvX50JSaOW
by ti-amieWith a Wimbledon Title, Elena Rybakina Finally Cracks a Smile
Rybakina’s victory at Wimbledon was deeply impressive but not the outcome that most in Centre Court or on the payrolls of the All England Club were yearning for.
By Christopher Clarey
July 9, 2022
Updated 6:47 p.m. ET
WIMBLEDON, England — Elena Rybakina’s surprise run to the Wimbledon title — full of overwhelming serves, timely winners and underrated defense — was a thing of cruel beauty.
Poker face firmly in place, Rybakina, a 6-foot tower of power, knocked out rising stars like the Chinese teenager Zheng Qinwen, former Grand Slam champions like Bianca Andreescu and Simona Halep and in Saturday’s final, the No. 2 player in the world, Ons Jabeur.
But however impressive, it was clear that this was not the outcome that most of those in the crowd or on the payrolls of the All England Club were yearning for.
The timing was all wrong, even if the 23-year-old Rybakina’s timing from the baseline was often pitch perfect.
You could sense the buzz kill on Centre Court, whose denizens roared for Jabeur from the start but greeted Rybakina and her victory, 3-6, 6-2, 6-2, politely.
You could feel the letdown on Wimbledon’s player lawn, where tennis officials and a large group of Jabeur supporters, all dressed up with no title to celebrate, were well aware of the story line that might have been.
Jabeur, nicknamed the Minister of Happiness by her fellow Tunisians, is not only a sympathetic figure, but also a deeply symbolic one as an Arab and African woman succeeding at the highest reaches of a sport that aspires to be truly global.
Rybakina, ranked 23rd, plays for the vast and lightly populated nation of Kazakhstan but has never lived there for an extended period. She is a Russian who was born, raised and, until this year, based in Moscow, where her parents and many of her closest friends still reside.
Wimbledon once feted another tall, blonde Russian newcomer when Maria Sharapova won the title by surprise in 2004 at age 17. But Rybakina’s arrival comes at an awkward moment for those with Russian connections. The tournament barred all Russian and Belarusian players (and journalists) this year because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The move came after pressure from the British government led by outgoing Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who has had a much worse weekend than Jabeur has had. But the ban was also put in place to deprive Russia and its leadership of the chance to use any Russian success at the tournament for propaganda.
Rybakina, who began representing Kazakhstan in 2018, was asked if her native country might try to politicize her victory.
“I don’t know,” she said. “I’m playing for Kazakhstan for a very, very long time. I represent it on the biggest tournaments, the Olympics, which was a dream come true. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I mean, it’s always some news, but I cannot do anything about this.”
That is certainly true. Wimbledon, after all, has barred players who represent Russia, not players who used to represent Russia. And though Shamil Tarpischev, the longtime president of the Russian Tennis Federation, claimed “we have won Wimbledon” to a Russian state media outlet on Saturday night, that certainly rings hollow. How do you convincingly paint Rybakina’s success as a bright and shiny tale of Russian triumph when it was Russia’s lack of support for her career that ultimately caused her to switch allegiances?
Rybakina pleaded mediocre English for not understanding a question about whether she condemned the war and never responded to it. But she made her tennis allegiance clear.
“I didn’t choose where I was born,” she said. “People believed in me. Kazakhstan supported me so much. Even today, I heard so much support. I saw the flags, so I don’t know how to answer these questions.”
She is hardly the first tennis player to take the funding and amenities and choose to represent another country. (Britain has had plenty of imports, including the former Canadian star Greg Rusedski and the former Australian Johanna Konta.)
Rybakina is hardly the first Russian tennis player to take the funding and amenities and choose to represent Kazakhstan. Yaroslava Shvedova switched in 2008 and later won the Wimbledon women’s doubles title and also became the only player in the Open era to complete a so-called golden set at a Grand Slam tournament, winning all 24 points of the first set against Sara Errani in a third-round victory, 6-0, 6-4, at Wimbledon.
“It was good for my career,” said Shvedova of the switch. “When I was in Russia, I was around the No. 10 player, but when I moved to Kazakhstan I was the No. 1 player. I get goose bumps thinking about it, but I knew I had to do good and work hard because I was the leader and everyone was watching me.”
Shvedova, 34, is retired and working with player development in Kazakhstan. She was at Wimbledon to support Rybakina on Saturday. So was Bulat Utemuratov, the billionaire president of the Kazakhstan Tennis Federation.
“To be honest, we’ve always been underdogs, anyone coming from Eastern Europe,” said Stefano Vukov, Rybakina’s coach, who is Croatian. “We’ve always had to fight against windmills to break through. It’s not as easy as for other federations from other countries. Thank God the Kazakhstan federation has been supporting her.”
Vukov said he and Rybakina knew that the further she advanced at Wimbledon the larger her Russian roots would loom. But he said she did not feel an added burden.
“Not really because we had the same issues when she switched to Kazakhstan to play for them,” he said. “The Russians absolutely were questioning why, why, why. So flip it around, it’s the same story, just in a different shape. She’s been through it already.”
Winning Wimbledon for the first time certainly seemed like business as usual for Rybakina. At first, it barely seemed to register.
Match point secured, she lightly clenched her left fist, wiped her mouth with her wrist band, expelled a breath and sauntered forward to the net to shake the hand of a crestfallen Jabeur, then waved to the crowd with as much urgency as Queen Elizabeth waving by the window of her carriage.
“I need to teach her how to celebrate,” Jabeur said.
But it should come as no surprise that Rybakina’s feelings were simply under wraps, and a couple of hours later, after she had posed with the Venus Rosewater Dish awarded to the champion, she was asked at her news conference how her parents might react to her victory when she finally got the chance to speak with them.
Rybakina has not seen them for months and has been living a nomadic life since the war began, not returning to Russia since February.
“Probably, they’re going to be super proud,” she said of her parents, beginning to tear up.
“You wanted to see emotion,” she said, fighting to regain her composure. “Kept it too long.”
It was a poignant moment, more moving, to be truthful, than anything that happened on Saturday on Centre Court, the Shakespearean scene of so many breakthroughs and breakdowns through the decades, including Jana Novotna’s crying on the shoulder of the Duchess of Kent after blowing a lead against Steffi Graf in the 1993 final.
The history, all those ghosts on the grass, can hit a player hard as they try to join the club. But Rybakina, in only her second Wimbledon and in her first Grand Slam singles final, pulled it off with aplomb. She was already wearing her purple badge as a new member of the All England Club on Saturday night. Her victory might not have been convenient to all concerned. (The Kazakhstanis would surely disagree.) But it was still a triumph: the product of hard choices and personal sacrifices, of a modified service motion that unleashed all that elastic power and of a gunslinger’s cool under duress that produced so many winners at just the right moments on a grand stage that suits her big game so well.
by ashkor87 I don't think anyone should comment on the character of someone they dont even know personally and intimately. We need to appreciate that everyone is different .if Kyrgios curses, that doesn't make him a bad person, I just don't know him personally. I curse too, when I miss a simple overhead..doesn't make me a bad person, and all the other players laugh and move on...
by Deuce
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:37 am
I don't think anyone should comment on the character of someone they dont even know personally and intimately. We need to appreciate that everyone is different .if Kyrgios curses, that doesn't make him a bad person, I just don't know him personally. I curse too, when I miss a simple overhead..doesn't make me a bad person, and all the other players laugh and move on...
Seriously???
Wow.
For the umpteenth time... one does not have to know a person personally or intimately or for 10 years in order to accurately assess the behaviour that one witnesses from them. Especially repeated behaviour.
Again - I find it incredible how you always conveniently and completely disregard a player's comportment and character and personality and assess them only on their ability to hit a fuzzy yellow ball. That ability is less than 5% of who they are.
They are human beings, not inanimate machines.
I must wonder how you determine who your friends will be. If you do you not assess their comportment/behaviour/character in order to decide which people are worthy of your continued attention and friendship, and which are not - before you know them intimately and/or for a few years, then how do you make this determination?
And if you think that the only negative thing that Kyrgios has done is "curse" (like you and virtually everyone else), I strongly suggest that you watch more closely. It's impossible to miss.
Whoever asked that question should have had enough sense to not use the word 'condemn' with someone whose primary language is very obviously not English.
And he/she did it twice! Incredible.
We see this far too often - English speaking reporters and journalists asking questions of players from non-English speaking countries, and speaking to them as if they are fluently English - because, of course, EVERYONE must understand English, right?
Doing this is arrogant, disrespectful, dumb, and defies all logic and common sense.
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:37 am
I don't think anyone should comment on the character of someone they dont even know personally and intimately. We need to appreciate that everyone is different .if Kyrgios curses, that doesn't make him a bad person, I just don't know him personally. I curse too, when I miss a simple overhead..doesn't make me a bad person, and all the other players laugh and move on...
Seriously???
Wow.
For the umpteenth time... one does not have to know a person personally or intimately or for 10 years in order to accurately assess the behaviour that one witnesses from them. Especially repeated behaviour.
Again - I find it incredible how you always conveniently and completely disregard a player's comportment and character and personality and assess them only on their ability to hit a fuzzy yellow ball. That ability is less than 5% of who they are.
They are human beings, not inanimate machines.
I must wonder how you determine who your friends will be. If you do you not assess their comportment/behaviour/character in order to decide which people are worthy of your continued attention and friendship, and which are not - before you know them intimately and/or for a few years, then how do you make this determination?
And if you think that the only negative thing that Kyrgios has done is "curse" (like you and virtually everyone else), I strongly suggest that you watch more closely. It's impossible to miss.
Now you are commenting on me, someone you don't have the slightest knowledge or understanding of .. leave it at that.
Whoever asked that question should have had enough sense to not use the word 'condemn' with someone whose primary language is very obviously not English.
And he/she did it twice! Incredible.
We see this far too often - English speaking reporters and journalists asking questions of players from non-English speaking countries, and speaking to them as if they are fluently English - because, of course, EVERYONE must understand English, right?
Doing this is arrogant, disrespectful, dumb, and defies all logic and common sense.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money Elena understood it perfectly well. It's just that she can't give any safe answer to such a question. Someone more confident perhaps would have replied "no comment".
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:37 am
I don't think anyone should comment on the character of someone they dont even know personally and intimately. We need to appreciate that everyone is different .if Kyrgios curses, that doesn't make him a bad person, I just don't know him personally. I curse too, when I miss a simple overhead..doesn't make me a bad person, and all the other players laugh and move on...
Seriously???
Wow.
For the umpteenth time... one does not have to know a person personally or intimately or for 10 years in order to accurately assess the behaviour that one witnesses from them. Especially repeated behaviour.
Again - I find it incredible how you always conveniently and completely disregard a player's comportment and character and personality and assess them only on their ability to hit a fuzzy yellow ball. That ability is less than 5% of who they are.
They are human beings, not inanimate machines.
I must wonder how you determine who your friends will be. If you do you not assess their comportment/behaviour/character in order to decide which people are worthy of your continued attention and friendship, and which are not - before you know them intimately and/or for a few years, then how do you make this determination?
And if you think that the only negative thing that Kyrgios has done is "curse" (like you and virtually everyone else), I strongly suggest that you watch more closely. It's impossible to miss.
Now you are commenting on me, someone you don't have the slightest knowledge or understanding of .. leave it at that.
No - I'm commenting on your repeated expressed perspective that no-one should ever comment on another person's behaviour or perspective or anything which involves the revealing of their character/personality unless we know them 'intimately'.
I find that absurd.
If everyone were to do that, no-one would ever have any opinion on anything or anyone.
I (and the huge majority of tennis fans) have seen more than enough of Kyrgios' behaviour, and understand the contexts in which it has occurred, to possess a valid opinion on it. No - we don't have to know him for 5 years to have a valid opinion on what we've repeatedly witnessed.
We would need to know Kyrgios 'intimately' to know and understand the REASON for his behaviour - but certainly not to assess his behaviour.
HUGE difference.
Again - human beings are not inanimate objects. Despite what the 'political correctness' plague tries to convince us of, the human animal possesses behaviour which reveals a significant part of their personality/character, and also possesses natural skills of perception and assessment.
I choose to use mine.
Whoever asked that question should have had enough sense to not use the word 'condemn' with someone whose primary language is very obviously not English.
And he/she did it twice! Incredible.
We see this far too often - English speaking reporters and journalists asking questions of players from non-English speaking countries, and speaking to them as if they are fluently English - because, of course, EVERYONE must understand English, right?
Doing this is arrogant, disrespectful, dumb, and defies all logic and common sense.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money Elena understood it perfectly well. It's just that she can't give any safe answer to such a question. Someone more confident perhaps would have replied "no comment".
P.S. English is not my native language either.
On what do you base your perspective that she understood the question perfectly well?
Based on what I've seen of her spoken English, as well as her difficulty in understanding some of that language, it's perfectly plausible that she does not know what the word 'condemn' means.
If the question would have been worded more simply, with a more common phrasing like, for example "Are you against the war?", then I might agree with you.
As well, based on my observations of similar situations (fluent English speakers asking questions of non-English persons), words like 'condemn' are very, very often not understood. We see it in interviews/press conferences often. Their knowledge of the English language is very basic, and some words are understandably too rare/complex for them to comprehend the meaning of.
by Suliso I don't know 100%, BUT I think you'd have a hard time finding someone on our company campus not understanding such a simple sentence. There are only a handful of native English speakers (5-7 out of ca 300). So basically lots of foreigners speak the language fluently, why not her too given that she needs it all the time?
More importantly she can't say she condemns the war, can't even be against it publicly. It's a criminal offence in Russia now!
by Deuce I would think that someone like Rybakina would have heard the word 'condemn' (or variants thereof) very, very rarely, if ever, in her life.
I'm thinking that her exposure to the English language is pretty much limited to the tennis environment/context - and the word 'condemn' is very rarely used - even amongst fluent English speakers - within the tennis environment.
I understand that she is in a difficult position in terms of answering that question she was asked (which was a stupid question not only because of the use of the word 'condemn', but also for asking directly about Putin).
And, on a broader point, I maintain that far too many English speaking journalists/reporters arrogantly think that the entire world should understand the English language as well as they do.
by Cuckoo4Coco The one thing I noticed during the interview that made me think she didn't understand the question fully is not only with that question, but with a few others she would frequently glance over to someone like either what does that mean or should I answer this question. She did this glance when this particular question was asked to her. As for the word condemn it definitely was a weird choice of words. Even if I would have gotten the question, I would have had to think a bit about what the reporter was really asking. Even being from America, I don't hear that word used a lot. Of course I know what it means, but it was a weird choice of words.
by ponchi101 With Suliso.
And, since I am the sole citizen of a dictatorship here in this forum.
I went back to Venezuela last year. On my way back, at the airport, this young man was being detained. He was a few steps ahead of me, so I could hear the conversation. The National Guard checking his passport (yes, in dictatorships THE MILITARY CHECK THE CIVILIANS) told him "so you are such-and-such". So he got pulled aside, they let me through, and this guy was being detained. Why? Because he is a "famous" Tik-Toker and he has posted some videos making fun of N. Maduro.
That was it. I did not see him boarding the plane.
Journalists should know: Russia is NOT a democracy. It is a dictatorship, run by a psychopath that kills people with poison gas and/or radioactive isotopes. And in dictatorships, you DO NOT condemn, publicly, the big man.
Rybakina lives in Moscow. She knows very well what happens to people that would have answered that question openly. Because, remember Peng Shaui? We are starting to forget about her, right? That is how dictatorships work.
And I am sure that Rybakina has a Kazakh passport, but I am sure she did not renounce her Russian one. So, she might be representing Kazakhstan, but as a still Russian citizen she could go back to Moscow after denouncing Putin, never to come back out.
Wimbledon trophy be damned.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:12 pm
With Suliso.
And, since I am the sole citizen of a dictatorship here in this forum.
I went back to Venezuela last year. On my way back, at the airport, this young man was being detained. He was a few steps ahead of me, so I could hear the conversation. The National Guard checking his passport (yes, in dictatorships THE MILITARY CHECK THE CIVILIANS) told him "so you are such-and-such". So he got pulled aside, they let me through, and this guy was being detained. Why? Because he is a "famous" Tik-Toker and he has posted some videos making fun of N. Maduro.
That was it. I did not see him boarding the plane.
Journalists should know: Russia is NOT a democracy. It is a dictatorship, run by a psychopath that kills people with poison gas and/or radioactive isotopes. And in dictatorships, you DO NOT condemn, publicly, the big man.
Rybakina lives in Moscow. She knows very well what happens to people that would have answered that question openly. Because, remember Peng Shaui? We are starting to forget about her, right? That is how dictatorships work.
And I am sure that Rybakina has a Kazakh passport, but I am sure she did not renounce her Russian one. So, she might be representing Kazakhstan, but as a still Russian citizen she could go back to Moscow after denouncing Putin, never to come back out.
Wimbledon trophy be damned.
Scary Stuff for sure. Everyone when Donald Trump was president here in the USA was talking about how he was trying to take my country and turn it into a dictatorship. I don't like him much at all , but I never believed that would happen here in my country.
by jazzyg I defended the journalist who asked Kyegios' ex about the abuse allegations against someone else, but I won't defend this.
Whether or not she understood the question, nothing good was going to come from an answer. Nothing. Terrible job by that journalist.
by meganfernandez
jazzyg wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:59 pm
I defended the journalist who asked Kyegios' ex about the abuse allegations against someone else, but I won't defend this.
Whether or not she understood the question, nothing good was going to come from an answer. Nothing. Terrible job by that journalist.
I disagree. I know you're a journalist, so I respect your opinion a lot. But we didn't know what story that journalist was working on. I give journalists a wide berth to work on whatever they want. For myself, I draw the line at personally intrusive questions, but nothing that's out in the open or fair game. This tournament was political because of the ban directly related to the war. This reporter might have been doing a story where it was only fair to have Rybakina on record on her position about Ukraine. We don't know. It's way too easy to judge a question without any context of the story the journalist is doing. Also, so what if a journalists asks a bad question? You have to be perfect at your job every minute? Sometimes you try something and it doesn't work out. No one gets hurt. Any player can decline to answer. I'd much rather journalists feel comfortable asking whatever they want (with decency) than feel a chilling effect in the interview room. A restrained press helps no one.
I also defend the journalist who asked Tomljanovic the question about Nick. Not that person's fault they were called on first and the timing was unfortunate. This is an important issue. Ask away. Much better than being muzzled.
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by ponchi101 That is exactly the kind of point why I don't play doubles.
Butchering a swinging volley on MP would make me throw up, in shame for my partner.
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by ti-amie Someone got lazy and threaded all the pics. I'll see what I can do about getting around that.
by ti-amie Wimbledon
@Wimbledon
28m Gustavo Fernandez & Shingo Kunieda
by ti-amie Wimbledon
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30m
Replying to
@Wimbledon Shingo Kunieda
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31m Yui Kamiji & Dana Mathewson
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32m Sam Schroder
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33m Sam Schroder & Niels Vink
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34m Mili Poljicak
by ti-amie Elena's gown is beautiful. She didn't play around with high heels or any heels for that matter.
theo #1inNewYork
@divinesabalenka
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More pics of Elena tonight
by ti-amie Whoever was running social media for the official Wimbledon account did great work for the fortnight. It's ironic that all of the pics from the Ball so far are fan pics.
by Cuckoo4Coco Love the sneakers with the beautiful gown.
by ponchi101 Love the no (or minimal) make up. She is pretty radiant.
And have to admit that Novak's tailor got the job done.
by Cuckoo4Coco Elena is very pretty. I love the sleeves and the top of that dress.
by meganfernandez
Cuckoo4Coco wrote:Love the sneakers with the beautiful gown.
Me too. She looks great.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
by Deuce
ti-amie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:01 pm
Elena's gown is beautiful. She didn't play around with high heels or any heels for that matter.
theo #1inNewYork
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More pics of Elena tonight
Finally!
Someone finally going the practical and healthy route, rather than the much too popular and expected 'socially conforming' route (which has damaged many-a-woman's legs and feet for the sake of a very questionable vanity).
by Fastbackss Surprised that Mrs. Djokovic didn't change from the outfit she watched the final in.
by meganfernandez
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:35 am
Surprised that Mrs. Djokovic didn't change from the outfit she watched the final in.
Really weird. I didn't love this dress, either. Makes her look like a baby doll. She's a grown woman. That's kind of my pet peeve.
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:35 am
Surprised that Mrs. Djokovic didn't change from the outfit she watched the final in.
Really weird. I didn't love this dress, either. Makes her look like a baby doll. She's a grown woman. That's kind of my pet peeve.
The pink dress that Mrs. Djokovic was wearing at the finals would have been something that I would have worn in like 4th, 5th and maybe Middle School. I wouldn't even be caught wearing something like that now. I mean the dress is cute and everything, but cute for a 10 year old girl.
Fastbackss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:35 am
Surprised that Mrs. Djokovic didn't change from the outfit she watched the final in.
Really weird. I didn't love this dress, either. Makes her look like a baby doll. She's a grown woman. That's kind of my pet peeve.
The pink dress that Mrs. Djokovic was wearing at the finals would have been something that I would have worn in like 4th, 5th and maybe Middle School. I wouldn't even be caught wearing something like that now. I mean the dress is cute and everything, but cute for a 10 year old girl.
Really weird. I didn't love this dress, either. Makes her look like a baby doll. She's a grown woman. That's kind of my pet peeve.
The pink dress that Mrs. Djokovic was wearing at the finals would have been something that I would have worn in like 4th, 5th and maybe Middle School. I wouldn't even be caught wearing something like that now. I mean the dress is cute and everything, but cute for a 10 year old girl.
Exactly! Her daughter could wear it soon.
Maybe that's the plan.
by ti-amie Jelena was too busy hate tweeting Ben Rothenberg to change her dress
by ponchi101 My loony friend N believes that Novak is the greatest thing on Earth because he stood up to the vaccination hoax.
So, maybe not the poster boy for anti-vaxxers, but certainly part of the team.
by ti-amieWimbledon 2022: BBC coverage sets online viewing record of 53.8m
Last updated on8 hours ago8 hours ago.
From the sectionTennis
The BBC's coverage of this year's Wimbledon has set a new record for online viewing figures.
The tournament was streamed 53.8m times on BBC iPlayer and online, beating the previous high of 30.5m in 2021.
A total of 25.5m people watched on BBC television as British number one Cameron Norrie reached his first Grand Slam semi-final before losing to the eventual champion Novak Djokovic.
The men's final peaked on BBC One at 7.5m and the women's showpiece at 3.1m.
The volume of hours consumed by television viewers was also the highest since the 2016 Championships, when former British number one Andy Murray won his second Wimbledon title.
Djokovic's win over Nick Kyrgios to secure his seventh Wimbledon title was streamed live 2.6m times on BBC iPlayer and online, with the match receiving a peak share of 43%.
Elena Rybakina's win over Ons Jabeur for her first Grand Slam title was streamed 712,000 times on BBC iPlayer and online.
"We are enormously proud to bring extensive coverage of Wimbledon to our audiences, who this year have devoured every moment across all our platforms with these record-breaking figures," said Barbara Slater, the BBC's director of sport.
"It's been another electrifying championship and we are delighted that we can offer audiences different ways to follow the action and to meet the ever-increasing appetite for on-demand viewing."
by ti-amie It seems this little girl look is a thing with her.
by ashkor87 Generally disappointing performance by the chair umpire in the women's finals, the men's also perhaps but the balls are flying faster there..the umpire is supposed to overrule only obvious mistakes by the line judges, she is not supposed to be a super-linejudge!
by ponchi101 You think so? What happened in the women's final that you feel that way? I felt it was a smooth match, like almost all WTA matches and all matches not involving a certain finalist.
by Cuckoo4Coco I really didn't notice anything out of the ordinary with the Ladies Final.
by ti-amie
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:45 pm
Generally disappointing performance by the chair umpire in the women's finals, the men's also perhaps but the balls are flying faster there..the umpire is supposed to overrule only obvious mistakes by the line judges, she is not supposed to be a super-linejudge!
I've seen others in Tennis Twitter say the same thing but they never give specifics.
by ashkor87 There were points where the linesman correctly called the shot in but the umpire called it out, and the line call was correct,as the Hawkeye shown on TV but not, evidently, to the umpire, showed. For instance, Jabeur hit a drop (expletive), which Rybakina reached and drove down the line with a hard slice..it was in, the linesman called it in, that is, made no call, but the umpire overruled. The commentators even wondered why R did not challenge, then they showed the Hawkeye, it was well on the line..
by ashkor87 I saw it on Disney Hotstar OTT, not live, since I was away..possibly other people do not see the same feed.
by ponchi101
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:54 am
There were points where the linesman correctly called the shot in but the umpire called it out, and the line call was correct,as the Hawkeye shown on TV but not, evidently, to the umpire, showed. For instance, Jabeur hit a drop (expletive), which Rybakina reached and drove down the line with a hard slice..it was in, the linesman called it in, that is, made no call, but the umpire overruled. The commentators even wondered why R did not challenge, then they showed the Hawkeye, it was well on the line..
I am sure you did not mean to write that Jabeur had hit a drop (expletive), unless the SHOT was of such poor quality you just coined a new tennis term.
And I would truly, truly, truly approve of that concept
by ashkor87 Oh oh! Mobile ...
by ashkor87 There was no drama because Rybakina did not make a fuss...just because the player accepts it...
by Cuckoo4Coco For some players making drama just doesn't work for their game. Elena is probably one of those players. Serena is not one of those players. She loves the drama on the court. Of course on the men's side Nick Kyrgios thrives on the drama, but a guy like Brandon Nakashima doesn't seem so too much.
by ponchi101 Rybakina has got to be the poster child for NON-DRAMA. She won WImbledon and it was as if she had won the BINGO at her local church.
Alize would have died of dehydration an hour later, because of the tears.
Rafa would have rolled so much on the grass that he would have dug himself in.
Nick would have French kissed Kate.
Elena? Nah, walk to the net and shake hands with Ons.
I can really, really, really become a fan.
by ponchi101
ashkor87 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:41 am
Oh oh! Mobile ...
And I was so enthusiastic about the new concept:
Drop (expletive): TENNIS. A peculiar stroke that attempts to leave the ball dead on the opponent's court, but of extremely poor execution and putridness.
by Cuckoo4Coco
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:49 pm
Rybakina has got to be the poster child for NON-DRAMA. She won WImbledon and it was as if she had won the BINGO at her local church.
Alize would have died of dehydration an hour later, because of the tears.
Rafa would have rolled so much on the grass that he would have dug himself in.
Nick would have French kissed Kate.
Elena? Nah, walk to the net and shake hands with Ons.
I can really, really, really become a fan.
Don't know if when Elena was younger she showed more emotion on the court and it just made her game worse so she just stopped doing it or it is just not in her personality. It just seems like she is so sweet.
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day. What a (expletive) 
day. What a (expletive) 
Gustavo Fernandez & Shingo Kunieda 
Gustavo Fernandez & Shingo Kunieda 
