'22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#16

Post by ponchi101 »

I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#17

Post by Suliso »

Iga has to sustain this level and dominance for at least three years and win 4-6 Slams before we seriously start comparing her with those three.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#18

Post by ponchi101 »

Trevisan is a very good example of "selective grunting". She does not do it all the time, and only on standard strokes.
She just played one point from side to side, and barely a noise, because she was busy getting to the ball.
Coco did talk to the chair about it.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#19

Post by ashkor87 »

ashkor87 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:52 pm Coco doesn't keep the ball down enough on her passing shots..if Trevisan comes to the net often enough...
Hmm..doing it quite well, and Trevisan is no Navratilova, I suppose
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#20

Post by ashkor87 »

Coco volleying very tentatively....
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#21

Post by ashkor87 »

Poor quality match so far
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#22

Post by Suliso »

I like Trevisan, but a GS final would be really asking for too much. Swiatek vs Gauff will be far more exciting.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#23

Post by meganfernandez »

ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?

Don't take this personally, but to me it's another subtle example of how we assume greatness from men and deny it to women until they prove it about 3x over. It's the default setting.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#24

Post by JazzNU »

ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:21 pm Trevisan is a very good example of "selective grunting". She does not do it all the time, and only on standard strokes.
She just played one point from side to side, and barely a noise, because she was busy getting to the ball.
Coco did talk to the chair about it.
The chair should've told Coco to get over it (and I say this as someone who wants Coco to win). A Grand Slam semifinal is NOT the time to talk to a player about their grunting, you're trying to affect their play by bringing it up at that point. Davenport was not at all pleased with the timing in the tournament and recalled a time when the same thing happened with Seles and how much it affected her game in the final with her suddenly trying not do it.

I think if Trevisan is named Sharapova, the chair says nothing but to tell Coco, there's nothing she can do.

If something can be done about the grunting in general, I'm all for getting rid of it. I've never been a fan. But mid-tournament isn't the time when that's part of the game and routine that got you there and in particular, not at the tail end of a Grand Slam. I can't recall the time this was brought up to Sharapova, Sabalenka, or Azarenka this late in a tournament, let alone a Major.
Last edited by JazzNU on Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#25

Post by Suliso »

meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#26

Post by meganfernandez »

Suliso wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm
meganfernandez wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:38 pm
ponchi101 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:00 pm I don't know. Comparing Iga to Roger is a bit extreme. She is clearly dominant now, but I don't think her style is truly that innovative, as she is a classic baseliner.
It is just that she is the best RIGHT NOW. I would put her far behind the Graf's, Seles' or Serena's of the history of the sport.
Wa aren't saying Alcaraz is the great right now, and his style isn't innovative. And he has accomplished less than she has. But we are assuming he'll keep it up and win 10 Slams. Why don't we give the same benefit of the doubt to Iga?
No way we're assuming that about Alcaraz. 10 Slams is like 6th greatest player of all time.
Some informed people and experts are, absolutely. Even if we dial back the exaggeration, same point holds. No one is saying "not so fast" on Alcaraz. They have seen enough. Why not from Iga? Not everyone feels this way, of course, but it's a worthy examination. Part of the expectation for Alcaraz is the standard that the Big 3 just set - winning 10 seems normal now. But that's just part of it.

Some experts picked him to win it after last year's US Open! It's a common thing to accelerate and anticipate greatness of men, but not of women.
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#27

Post by ashkor87 »

I was speaking of HOW she plays! Not the number of majors she has won...
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#28

Post by meganfernandez »

ashkor87 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:05 pm I was speaking of HOW she plays! Not the number of majors she has won...
Oh, I hadn't read your comments. :) I just did and I like them! And I hope Ponchi knows I wasn't attacking or picking on him. The topic is top of mind because I was just reading about TV commentator's handling of Iga, similar thing. So another example along the same lines kind of hit me in the face. Iga and Alcaraz have been on similar trajectories this spring, same age, so the way we talk about them is a good case study. That's all. Plenty of people are saying great things about Iga, but it has occurred to me that we ride the brakes on her more than Alcaraz (whom I did not predict to make the final, personally).
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#29

Post by ashkor87 »

Trevisan just isn't a worthy semifinalist..there is always one iike that..this time it is Trevisan
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Re: '22 RG Day 12 OoP & Discussion

#30

Post by ponchi101 »

I think it is fairer to talk about Iga and start comparing her to the great ones, as opposed to Alcaraz, because she is already #1, has one slam, and is in the midst of a historic run.
And, as Ashkor says, him (and I) are talking about HOW she plays. I find her a very solid baseliner, but not innovative in the way that Graf (her FH), Seles (both wings), and Serena (the serve) were.
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