'23 RG Day 11 OoP & Discussion

[jazzyg]

When Zverev is in form, he is a higher class player than almost everyone but the truly elite. That much is obvious, but he had shown nothing of that level this year.

Say what you really want to say, suliso.

[ti-amie]

Rune 4-2 in the third set...

[nelslus]

I guess Zverev is just a class higher player overall.

Indeed. And people are at times too quick to write somebody off. Zverev has a huge 1st serve, the groundstrokes are excellent, because his BH is so good he never runs around it so his court positioning is always more balanced, and he is adept at the net.
I say he is now favored to reach the final. There, I don't think he would be able to deal with Djokovic, but last year he romped over Carlitos.

....You realize that this is the same player who, this clay court season, has two losses to Medvedev, and losses to Jarry, O'Connell- and a 1 & 2 loss to Carlos?!?! Combining with his ongoing recovery from his horrendous injury- It's not exactly a stretch to figure out why some of us have written Zverev off, at least for now.

Zverev has very much benefitted with being in the right half of the draw, and a lot of upsets in his half. He's not had to exactly beat HOF players to make the SF's.

Of course, with all of the pressures of a Slam, anything can happen. But, at least VERY prematurely- let's not try to make Zverev happen. And- from what I have seen- your ongoing discounting of Carlos' chances at winning tournaments and Slam titles is curious to me. Carlos made Musetti look pedestrian- and, for almost all of the match, did the same with Tsitsipas.

[ti-amie]

Has Rune finished his walkabout? He takes the third set 6-3.

[ti-amie]

Ruud 4-1 fourth set. Watching Rune he appears to be really tight.

[ponchi101]

...

....You realize that this is the same player who, this clay court season, has two losses to Medvedev, and losses to Jarry, O'Connell- and a 1 & 2 loss to Carlos?!?! Combining with his ongoing recovery from his horrendous injury- It's not exactly a stretch to figure out why some of us have written Zverev off, at least for now.

Zverev has very much benefitted with being in the right half of the draw, and a lot of upsets in his half. He's not had to exactly beat HOF players to make the SF's.

Of course, with all of the pressures of a Slam, anything can happen. But, at least VERY prematurely- let's not try to make Zverev happen. And- from what I have seen- your ongoing discounting of Carlos' chances at winning tournaments and Slam titles is curious to me. Carlos made Musetti look pedestrian- and, for almost all of the match, did the same with Tsitsipas.

Everything you say is correct. And I am not saying that Zverev would beat Carlitos, if they do meet in the final. I am only saying that last year, he did, so it might be competitive (which I don't think will be if he meets Novak).
And yes, due to all the losses you are pointing out, Zverev was being discounted. I thought he was good for a 2R, which was not the case. So, the opinion that people start saying that very good players are "washed up" (I don't know if you have ever considered that term ) applies to me too.

[ti-amie]

Rune gets it to 3-5 but Ruud is serving for the match.

[ponchi101]

Those were two fun last sets. Some quality points.
Is something missing from Rune's game?

[jazzyg]

This from Zverev on Etcheverry, whom everyone here appears to be underrating significantly. Time will tell, but that was a very high quality match, something I was not expecting from Zverev for the reasons nelsius enumerated.

"He is playing incredible tennis," Zverev said when asked about Etcheverry. "He reminds me a lot of [Juan Martin] del Potro. The way he plays and the way he hits his forehand. He is an incredible player. I think if he continues to play like this he will be in the quarter-finals here a lot more and he can be Top 10 and win big tournaments. He proved it this week and I wish him nothing but the best."

You could tell how much respect Zverev had for Etcheverry's game by their extended talk at the net after match point.

[ti-amie]

Those were two fun last sets. Some quality points.
Is something missing from Rune's game?

He looked nervous to me, tight. Ruud was by far the calm, more mature player. I don't watch Rune enough to have an opinion on his game to be honest.

[nelslus]

Those were two fun last sets. Some quality points.
Is something missing from Rune's game?

He looked nervous to me, tight. Ruud was by far the calm, more mature player. I don't watch Rune enough to have an opinion on his game to be honest.

During the Tennis Channel broadcast, The Otherwise Annoying Courier was talking about Rune will need to work on conditioning so that he can handle 5-set Slam matches- which Is exactly what I had been thinking- i.e.- sometimes, Courier IS correct. Rune was able to bring up his energy big-time in the third set, blasting the ball all over the place, and at the beginning of the fourth set. But, Rune really seemed to be laboring in the 4th set. In any case, from midway on in the 4th set, Ruud played smart tennis, bullied Ruud through long rallies, and came to the net some. It was fun to watch- especially as the brat lost.

[ti-amie]

So despite his being young and looking fit he doesn't have the stamina for five setters? Stefanos used to whine about making Slams three setters but he's shut up about that. Nelslus there are a lot of folks who agree with your analysis regarding conditioning/stamina.

[nelslus]

Everything you say is correct. And I am not saying that Zverev would beat Carlitos, if they do meet in the final. I am only saying that last year, he did, so it might be competitive (which I don't think will be if he meets Novak).
And yes, due to all the losses you are pointing out, Zverev was being discounted. I thought he was good for a 2R, which was not the case. So, the opinion that people start saying that very good players are "washed up" (I don't know if you have ever considered that term ) applies to me too.

LOL- while I always try to start up at least most of the TAT Washed Up threads at random moments in player careers - it takes me awhile to truly feel that a player who has reached greatness is Washed Up. I mean, come on now, Murray is Washed Up - and, it sure looks like Thiem is Washed Up. But, as much as I would be especially delighted if he does end up being Washed Up - I would say that it is premature to view Zverev as Washed Up, in the long-term. (Now, at least, do a Rune and lose, Zverev.)

[nelslus]

So despite his being young and looking fit he doesn't have the stamina for five setters? Stefanos used to whine about making Slams three setters but he's shut up about that. Nelslus there are a lot of folks who agree with your analysis regarding conditioning/stamina.

I mean, the brat is 20. Being fully and truly prepared for a Slam does take time. There aren't too many Rafa's and Carlos' out there who can win a Slam (or more, in Rafa's case) at very young ages. It took Roger and Novak some time to become better conditioned and win Slam titles. Plus, you also must learn how to polish Slam matches off more simply. Winning your most recent Slam match in a 5th set tiebreaker, and letting Eubanks take you to four mostly tough sets on clay, just cannot happen. So, the brat definitely has time on his side, and I do see him as a potential Slam winner. (*LET me be wrong here, PLEASE.)

[nelslus]

....Meanwhile, watch Novak win this damned thing and eventually get to 32 or whatever.