Random, Random 2.0

[Suliso]

French king bought Mona Lisa shortly after the painter's death. It's not the same at all.

[skatingfan]

I think there's a big difference artifacts, and artwork being displayed in museums with permission of the artist, or on loan from the owners of the pieces, and items taken from countries by force, and held in another country even when the country of origin asks for the items to be returned.

[mmmm8]

But what about other countries that hold art and historical artifacts from other nations? I don't see the Italians going bonkers because the Mona Lisa is in the Louvre. I spent las weekend at the Buenos Aires Museum of Arts; several Van Gogh's, Goya's, Picasso's and multiple sculptures from Greece and the Roman's. Nobody minds (as should be the case).
You know who sponsors the Tutankhamen hall at the Cairo Museum of History? IBM (it needs very precise A/C settings). In Cambodia, at Seam Reap, the "Hall of the 1,000 Buddhas" is sponsored by a Japanese company (I forget which one).
So the Brits took home a lot of things. Why? Because at that time, they were the main navigating empire of the world and that was what conquerors did. And I really don't want to see the Rosetta Stone back in Cairo. In the British Museum, it is safe. And I have been in enough Arab countries to know they are as stable as a top. So its safety cannot be guaranteed there in the same way as it can be guaranteed in London.

As others have pointed out, provenance is the difference for art and other museum collections that acquired pieces legally or have paid for them in retrospect vs what The British Museum is continuing to do. There has been a lot of activity with museums and collections around the world trying to find a way to rectify by either giving the art back or allowing some sort of compensation. This is becoming the norm and there are even some regulations. The British Museum has been pushing against this.

Of course, there are complications in trying to give the art back - some of which you allude to.

Here's a great Freakonomics podcast series about this: https://freakonomics.com/podcast-tag/st ... k-is-hard/

The British Museum has been criticized for other reasons, like their big sponsorship deal with British Petroleum.

[ti-amie]

The Benin Bronzes via Wiki

Most of the plaques and other objects were taken by British forces during the Benin Expedition of 1897 as the British Empire's control was being consolidated in Southern Nigeria.[11] This Expedition was positioned by British sources as retaliation for a massacre of an unarmed party of British envoys and a large number of their African bearers in January 1897. Some Contemporary scholars, such as Dan Hicks, argue that the Expedition was part of a broader series of premeditated attacks, framed as retaliatory or punitive, to further European imperialistic and economic interests in Africa.[12] Following the Expedition, two hundred pieces were taken to the British Museum in London, while the rest were taken to other European museums.[13] A large number are held by the British Museum[11] with other notable collections in Germany and the United States.[14]

Some erroneously concluded that Benin knowledge of metallurgy came from the Portuguese traders who were in contact with Benin in the early modern period.[7] The Kingdom of Benin was a hub of African civilization long before Portuguese traders visited,[15][16] and bronzes were made in Benin prior to the arrival of the Portuguese.[17] The Benin bronze sculpture tradition is thought to have derived from or been influenced by that of the older nearby Kingdom of Ife in southwest Nigeria.[5][6][7]


A Benin Bronze plaque on display in the British Museum

The Kingdom of Benin, which occupied southern parts of present-day Nigeria between the fourteenth and nineteenth centuries, was rich in sculptures of diverse materials, such as iron, bronze, wood, ivory and terra cotta. The Oba's palace in Benin City, the site of production for the royal ancestral altars, also was the backdrop for an elaborate court ceremonial life in which the Oba of Benin, his warriors, chiefs and titleholders, priests, members of the palace societies and their constituent guilds, foreign merchants and mercenaries, and numerous retainers and attendants all took part. The palace, a vast sprawling agglomeration of buildings and courtyards, was the setting for hundreds of rectangular brass plaques whose relief images portray the persons and events that animated the court.[28]

"The king's palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries...resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles, and are kept very clean."

Olfert Dapper, a Dutch writer, describing Benin in his book Description of Africa (1668)[27]

The Benin Bronzes that were part of the booty of the punitive expedition of 1897 had different destinations: one portion ended up in the private collections of various British officials; the Foreign and Commonwealth Office sold a large number, which later ended up in various European museums, mainly in Germany, and in American museums.[14] The high quality of the pieces was reflected in the high prices they fetched on the market. The Foreign Office gave a large quantity of bronze wall plaques to the British Museum; these plaques illustrated the history of the Benin Kingdom in the fifteenth and sixteenth century.[40]

In response to the British Museum's continued refusal to return looted Benin bronzes, the Iyase (traditional prime minister) of Benin Kingdom unveiled the largest bronze plaque to date on 30 July 2021.[63][64][65] The plaque contains over 2 tons of brass and was created by one of the grandsons of the current Iyase of Benin Kingdom, Lukas Osarobo Zeickner-Okoro.[66] It is titled 'The Return of Oba Ewuare' to symbolise the Benin belief in reincarnation and a restart of the Benin Bronze Age in the reign of the current Oba of Benin, Ewuare II. It therefore honours the Oba and was even offered in exchange for the bronzes held by the British Museum.[67][68]

There are more details at the link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Bronzes

[ti-amie]

I ate at a place like this in NYC Chinatown that was located at 113 Mott St. When you went in most of the diners were Chinese and the menu was whatever the chef cooked. The building has been gentrified and the Chinese place isn't there anymore.

[ponchi101]

Have had a couple of experiences like that too. Walk in and ask them to bring me whatever the chef wanted.
It has always been great.

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[ashkor87]

All 3 Nobel Prizes this far announced have been about A.I. Now they should just award the literature prize to ChatGPT...for good measure, the Nobel Memorial prize for Economics to Satoshi...in hiding!

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

Palate cleanser not named Moo Deng.

[ti-amie]

P1/4