Business/Markets/Stocks/Economics Random, Random

[Suliso]

Not all tech route can be remote, though. Also operating in India only defeats the purpose of looking for talent globally.

[mmmm8]

One small correction here - Spacex is ITAR regulated and thus forbidden from hiring non residents.

Also why the silly assumption that Americans are necessarily more skilled? At the very top it would indeed be very stupid not to hire the best. What needs to change is the silly immigration system. Such people should be given residence cards not visas. Like I got in Switzerland 15 years ago.

I think the assumption is that Americans aren't. Thus the fear about losing engineering jobs to foreigners if the H1-B quota goes up.

H1-B is a visa system though. Unless they revamp it, you're getting skilled talent, but you can't control that it's the 0.1% of skilled talent.

[mmmm8]

One small correction here - Spacex is ITAR regulated and thus forbidden from hiring non residents.

Also why the silly assumption that Americans are necessarily more skilled? At the very top it would indeed be very stupid not to hire the best. What needs to change is the silly immigration system. Such people should be given residence cards not visas. Like I got in Switzerland 15 years ago.

What do you think the USA should do for a 45 yo, with 20+ years experience in a solid field, and with a BS and MsSc from American universities, fluent in English? Automatic residency?

Only based on that no, but if a Google offers a job paying 200k then yes. Also an easy path for those just graduating with MsSc or PhD from US universities. Only in the latter case should be careful about cheating. I'd make a strict list of universities (50-100) and majors which qualify. Otherwise you'll get lots of marketing degrees from North Missisipi state. That would be very counterproductive.

That would probably be illegal (discriminatory).

The H1-B visa process qualifies for eligibility for permanent residency in the future if you stay at your employer, plenty of my friends and colleagues got their green cards this way after 3-5 years in the country, and a few are now citizens. Besides the H1-B, there are also visa programs for post-graduates that allow you to stay and work in the US and then the employer can choose to apply for an H1-B visa for you. H1-B is a lottery but since you can reapply each year while on a temporary visa, chances for those who are eligible are fairly decent.

[Suliso]

Yes, but for certain nationalities it takes far longer than for others. In this sense immigration system in EU/Switzerland is much more straightforward.

[Suliso]

USA has some of the finest educational institutions in the World, but it also has hundreds of schools little above diploma mills.

[ti-amie]

Since the visa discussion is here I'll put this here.

A MAGA ‘Civil War’ on X between Musk and the far right over H-1B visas
The online rift over the H-1B skilled-worker visa program signifies a potential wedge between Trump’s core base and his new Silicon Valley supporters.

Updated
December 27, 2024 at 2:47 p.m. ESTtoday at 2:47 p.m. EST

By Pranshu Verma and Cat Zakrzewski

Far-right activists clashed online with billionaire Elon Musk and other supporters of President-elect Donald Trump over the need for a skilled-worker immigration program that has long been a lifeblood for Silicon Valley — signifying a potential rift between Trump’s core nationalist base and technology executives who have come to support him.

The fight that spilled into public view over the holiday week could preview a wedge within Trump’s coalition over how to execute immigration policy, an issue that animated Trump’s White House campaign.

The controversy spread across X after far-right activist Laura Loomer on Monday criticized Trump’s choice to name Sriram Krishnan, a technology entrepreneur and investor who was born in India, as his senior policy adviser on artificial intelligence. She pointed to Krishnan’s previous support for removing some caps on green cards and easing the ability of skilled foreign workers to come to the United States. The policy is “in direct opposition” to Trump’s agenda, Loomer wrote.

The critique sparked a broader debate about immigration in the tech industry, which relies heavily on a visa program that allows foreigners with technical skills to work in the United States for up to six years under H-1B nonimmigrant status.

It ran headlong into tension with some of Trump’s closest advisers, notably Tesla and SpaceX CEO Musk; David Sacks, who will be the president-elect’s AI and crypto czar; and Vivek Ramaswamy, who will co-lead a commission to cut government spending.

Ramaswamy argued American culture doesn’t produce enough skilled workers to fuel cutting-edge companies. “‘Normalcy’ doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent,” he wrote on X. “And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China.”

The online fight sparked a slew of racist posts from Loomer and allegations of censorship. She said her X account lost its verified status and premium subscribers because Musk, who owns the platform, was retaliating against her.

A screenshot purporting to show that Loomer’s X account had been flagged for violating rules against “posting other people’s private information” bounced around the social network. The Washington Post could not independently verify the authenticity of the post.

“So much for free speech,” she said in an X post on Friday. “Quite totalitarian if you ask me.”

Notable Republicans, including former GOP presidential candidate Nikki Haley, championed Loomer’s position. “If the tech industry needs workers, invest in our education system,” Haley said in a post on X on Friday. “Invest in our American workforce. We must invest in Americans first before looking elsewhere.”

Tech executives, including Musk, have said they would prefer to hire American workers because obtaining visas for foreign workers can be time-consuming and costly. But Musk, who once held an H-1B visa and has relied on the program to employ thousands of Tesla employees, said recruiting foreign workers is a crucial way technology companies obtain the best engineering talent to compete globally.

“The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low,” Musk wrote on X on Christmas. “If you want your TEAM to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever they may be.”

The online feud reflects the challenges that Trump will have holding together the delicate political coalition that delivered him the White House, which included unprecedented levels of financial support from Musk and other Silicon Valley billionaires.

“It’s a sign of future conflicts,” said Samuel Hammond, a senior economist at the Foundation for American Innovation. “This is like the pregame.”

Krishnan declined to comment. Loomer and a representative for the Trump transition team did not respond to requests for comment. Trump traveled with Loomer during the campaign, but amid criticism of her previous statements, he said in September he doesn’t “control” her.

Trump has sought to position himself as a champion for legal immigration, even though he slashed pathways for immigrants during his first term. Trump has offered few specifics about how he will address skilled immigration in the tech industry during his second term.

On a June episode of the “All In” podcast, which is co-hosted by Sacks, Trump said he would automatically give a green card to every international student with a college diploma.

“If you graduate or you get a doctorate degree from a college, you should be able to stay in this country,” he said.

Ahead of the first Trump administration, many tech CEOs sought to build bridges with the president-elect during the transition with a meeting at his New York Trump Tower. But those delicate relationships broke down when Trump almost immediately rolled out what critics and federal judges have branded a “Muslim ban,” which prohibited U.S. entry by the citizens of several majority-Muslim countries.

The episode amounted to a “shock wave” in the industry, where many founders and workers are immigrants, Hammond said.

“Immigration is an economically important issue for tech, but also in many cases a personal one,” he said. “They all understand the inefficiencies and the bureaucracy around the U.S. immigration system and the Kafkaesque nightmares it can throw you in.”

But this time, the tech industry is far more directly intertwined in Trump’s transition. Self-described “first buddy” Musk has spent much of the time since Election Day by the president-elect’s side, and Trump has tapped many Silicon Valley investors and executives to serve in prominent roles within his administration.

As Silicon Valley companies compete to create artificial intelligence products, the need for foreign-born talent has intensified. Twenty-eight of the top 43 AI companies in the United States were co-founded by immigrants, and 70 percent of full-time graduate students in AI-related fields are international students, according to a 2023 analysis from the National Foundation for American Policy.

As Trump previews a hard-line immigration policy including militarized mass deportation of undocumented immigrants, many in the tech industry are pushing him to expand legal immigration for highly skilled workers. Some argue the shift is necessary for the United States to remain competitive with China.

Skilled immigration emerged as one of the top flash points between Trump and Silicon Valley during his first presidency. Although Trump at times acknowledged the need for American companies to recruit top talent, his administration limited the H-1B program. Stephen Miller, who helped craft some immigration policies during the first Trump administration, is returning to the White House as Trump’s deputy chief of staff for policy and homeland security adviser.

The online debate reverberated among Washington lawmakers, who have long pursued ways to improve the H-1B program. Rep. Ro Khanna, a Democrat who represents Silicon Valley, defended Krishnan and said he supported reforming the H-1B program.

“We should celebrate that immigrants like Elon Musk, Jensen Huang and Sriram Krishnan choose to come to the United States,” he told The Post. “This has fueled our economic and technology preeminence. I am glad Sriram is being appointed.”

The restrictions of H-1B visas during Trump’s first term faced fierce opposition from major tech companies. During the pandemic, Trump temporarily froze H-1B visas in a move the administration said would help Americans experiencing job loss. That same year, the Trump administration also introduced new rules tightening eligibility for H-1B visas and requiring companies to offer higher salaries to people on the visas. A federal judge later rejected some of the rules, including the salary provision.

During President Joe Biden’s final weeks in office, his administration has introduced rules to “modernize” the H-1B program by making it easier for international students to obtain the visas and improving the efficiency of the application process.

“These reforms target systematic misuse by IT consulting firms while acknowledging the program’s demonstrated net positive impact on U.S. technological competitiveness,” said Divyansh Kaushik, a vice president at Beacon Global Strategies.

Technology companies are particularly reliant on H-1B visas — which are capped at 85,000 new visas annually — to help recruit talent. Amazon, with 3,871 new H-1B employees, had the most approved new petitions in 2024, according to data compiled by the nonpartisan organization National Foundation for American Policy. Google had 1,058 approved applications, and Tesla had 742, the data showed. (The Post is owned by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos.)

Ramaswamy said in an X post on Thursday that the reason technology companies hire foreign-born engineers is because “American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long,” drawing criticism from notable pro-Trump personalities.

Brenden Dilley, a pro-Trump podcaster, shot back at Ramaswamy’s post. “I always love when these tech bros flat out tell you that they have zero understanding of American culture and then have the gall to tell you that YOU are the problem with America,” he wrote.

Loomer, who has 1.4 million followers on X, unleashed a slew of racist posts falsely describing Indians as “third world invaders” with low IQs, and calling the clash a “civil war” between Trump’s far-right base and the “tech bros” that have come to support his upcoming administration.

She also sparred with Musk over his support of the H-1B program, questioning the skills of Indian programmers at X because of glitches during a May live event on the site kicking off Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s presidential campaign. “Loomer is trolling for attention. Ignore.” Musk said on X.

Loomer said she hopes the feud with Silicon Valley changes Trump’s views.

“Looking forward to the inevitable divorce between President Trump and Big Tech,” she said on X. “Let’s pray this fake Big Tech ‘love fest’ with Trump ends sooner rather than later.”

Elizabeth Dwoskin contributed to this report.

correction
A previous version of this article incorrectly said that Laura Loomer pointed to Sriram Krishnan’s remarks about H-1B visas. The remarks were about green cards. This article has been corrected.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... migration/

[ti-amie]

Some responses

Jeff Tiedrich
‪@jefftiedrich.bsky.social‬

so if I'm understanding the tech-bro position correctly, it's this

Edited to add this from a WaPo reader:

'A knowledge gap' that does not exist. These tech companies can hire three semi-talented not very competent H1-B workers for the price of a single US born and educated coder; and they will get about half of the effective work out of them (in total).

But then, the H1-B's are basically 'indentured servants' to these companies and easy targets for employment abuse.

The whole H1-B scam has been a well known secret in the high tech industry for close to 30 years.

teachinglibrarian.bsky.social
‪@teachinglibrarian.bsky.social‬

They know there are P plenty of well-educated candidates in the US. But they don't want to pay them. The workers they import, however, will be essentially indentured servants.

[ti-amie]

Anonymous
‪@youranoncentral.bsky.social‬

Elon Musk has proceeded to openly agree that MAGA supporters are "retards" and "subtards", promoting that the 'tech right' (Telsa bros) is superior to the 'right right' (MAGA).

NonnyLynda‬ ‪@nonnylynda.bsky.social‬

"created untold wealth and national security for our nation out of thin air"
????????????????????

EVERY SINGLE THING MUSK HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO HAS BEEN FUNDED DIRECTLY BY CONGRESS USING AMERICAN TAXPAYER DOLLARS!

"out of thin air" my entire ass

‪

Ralphie the Rover‬ ‪@cornbeef.bsky.social‬

He doesn't need MAGA any longer

The Tech-bro revolution was 2-fold. JV Dance for once Don became dispensible and Apartheid Clyde to steer the transition.

That is why the mask is off, they have served their purpose.

February is gonna be one HELL of a month, with a hell of a lot of 'Finding Out'

[ti-amie]

Meanwhile...

Bloomberg
‪@bloomberg.com‬

Follow
NEW: Trump's tariff threats are setting off a global supply chain "freakout" that’s leaving companies prone to bottlenecks — and more vulnerable to economic shocks. Read The Big Take here

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... t=business

[ti-amie]

They're not hiding it anymore.



Many commenters are talking about how the caste system has affected the world view of someone like Ramaswamy.

[ponchi101]

Notable Republicans, including former GOP presidential candidate Nikki Haley, championed Loomer’s position. “If the tech industry needs workers, invest in our education system,” Haley said in a post on X on Friday. “Invest in our American workforce. We must invest in Americans first before looking elsewhere.”

Why are these two things exclusive of each other?

[ashkor87]

Even in the 70s and 80s when I did my PhD at UCLA, half the doctoral cohort was Indian, there were literally zero Americans. It is not a new phenomenon. BTW, only half the cohort actually survived and got their PHD..guess which half!

[skatingfan]

Why are these two things exclusive of each other?

That was the idea, but visa part is easy, and quick, and the invest in the future of country is long, and hard, and long term planning is not a priority.

[Suliso]

It's not really true that there is not investment in higher education in USA. There are two issues - "natives" are not always interested (my PhD program in US was also 40-60% foreigners) and also just a numbers game. There are only so many very smart people in any country and if more is needed have to import. It's not just in US, the same is observed in Switzerland (even more maybe)

You might ask why are Americans not so interested? Because studies are long and hard. Monetary reward is more modest than in law, finance or medicine.

[ponchi101]

Why is there a default belief that Americans are not interested? How has that been established?