Tennis Random, Random (On Court)

[ponchi101]

interesting comment on Roddick's podcast - Alcaraz is a combination of Federer, Nadal and Murray - Sinnner is just Djokovic 2.0..would you agree?
Gilbert said Sinner is a combination of Federer and Agassi..
I think Djokovic is much stronger mentally than Sinner is.. he could always raise his game, as he did repeatedly against Federer at W and the USO.. I dont see that in Sinner yet...

Djokovic as a mental giant is a hard buy for me. Remember early in his career, how he tanked matches and outright quit in a few. He was not that great. Later in his career yes, which was a great transformation, but as a paragon of mental strength, I could leave him out of the top 10 of all times.

I like it that nobody is ever a combination of "Leconte, Rios and Berdych". Or "Noah, Edberg and Todd Martin". Combinations that would be lethal (really, imagine somebody with Leconte's strokes, Rios' back court game, and Berdych's consistency and power. How could you beat that?).
And I don't see what of Murray does Alcaraz have. Except the non stop talk to his box.

[ashkor87]

It was mentioned.. Alcaraz forward movement to returning even a first serve reminded them of Murray

[ashkor87]

Best free shooter I ever saw was a UCLA guard Rod Foster
.never missed one that I recall .
I agree, missing the second serve is often because you are trying to hit it harder than needed. But it is mostly in the head

[ponchi101]

It was mentioned.. Alcaraz forward movement to returning even a first serve reminded them of Murray

Reminded them of Murray?
Wow, if there had only ever been another player, more decorated than Murray, that had moved forward when returning serves. Anybody in the 90's ...
(Heck, Jonas Bjorkman did it much better than anybody).

[mick1303]

interesting comment on Roddick's podcast - Alcaraz is a combination of Federer, Nadal and Murray - Sinnner is just Djokovic 2.0..would you agree?
Gilbert said Sinner is a combination of Federer and Agassi..
I think Djokovic is much stronger mentally than Sinner is.. he could always raise his game, as he did repeatedly against Federer at W and the USO.. I dont see that in Sinner yet...

Djokovic as a mental giant is a hard buy for me. Remember early in his career, how he tanked matches and outright quit in a few. He was not that great. Later in his career yes, which was a great transformation, but as a paragon of mental strength, I could leave him out of the top 10 of all times.

This is your "anti-fandom" speaking. Why Djokovic shall be judged by his mental disposition as a player in his early 20s and all his body of work is discarded? To wrestle #1 from such a dominant force as Nadal was in 2010 and the very next year beat him to the punch, including multiple times on his favorite surface - it is simply unprecedented in the modern history of tennis. The domination usually ended when the dominator begun showing signs of decline. Not so in this case. And it is not like Djokovic was just taking the racket out of Nadal's hands like great attacking players (Sampras, Federer). He beat Nadal precisely where his strengths were - defense, consistency and yes - mental strength.

[dryrunguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a fairly direct "transition" between Novak's early career retirements and lackluster efforts, his surgery for the deviated septum, and then a dramatic improvement in his physical and mental stamina and the subsequent improvement in results? Or do I have the timeline wrong? I remember being really frustrated with him early on. And then I realized, oh wait, the guy can't... breathe... It seemed to explain a lot at the time. IIRC.

[ponchi101]

@ Mick. No, that is not my anti-fandom. Maybe it is your fandom speaking. That possibility is also always there.
I am not saying the end of his career; he became a force indeed, and he learned that aspect as well as anybody. Very much like Lendl. You must remember how Wilander once said that with Lendl, early in career, all you needed to do was to get to 4-4 and you knew he would give you the set (Wilander speaking), And then, he changed into this player that, if you got to 4-4, you knew there was no way he (Lendl) would lose the set (again, Wilander speaking).
And I did mention about later in his career. Which, perhaps more accurately, should be a bit into his career. He became that force when he started his truly dominant phase.

But another thing, and you do this at times: yes, you do not judge a player solely by his early career. But you do not discard it either. Early in her career, Martina was a bit out of shape, and was mentally a bit over the map. All that was corrected, and she became that unstoppable player. But you cannot discard those years just like that. She was that player, and she was also the later player. You look at the whole thing.

And we always talk only of the Big three, the big champions. How about lesser players that had incredible qualities? In the mental aspect, I will say Ferrer and Schwartzmann were incredible. Never gave up on a single point, regardless of the score. So, I do say that, if I were to be building a Frankenstein monster player, taking bits and pieces of one player here, and one player there, and I were given the mental strength of Ferrer or of Djokovic, I would take Ferrer's. He was also very special there.

[ashkor87]

Looking back, which were the 2-3 high quality matches of the year?
Gauff-sabalenka FO finals, Rybakina-Sabalenka YEC, in the wta
On the atp side, the French open finals where Alcaraz beat Sinner..
Purely quality of tennis, not drama or sentiment ..
What are your favorites?

[ponchi101]

Tough to go against the men's RG final.
The Zverev-Medvedev QF at Paris was awesome.
Sabalenka beating Iga at RG was high quality. The way she dropped her UE's in the 3rd set was impressive. But I say Maddie-Iga at the Aussie was better.

[skatingfan]

Keys def. Swiatek Australian Open for the WTA.
Alcaraz def. Sinner French Open for the ATP.

[ashkor87]

I watched the Keys Swiatek match again on youtube ..I actually thought it was rather low quality..replete with unforced errors by both..the finals was better, I thought..I did watch all the AO matches..the timing is perfect for me..

[ponchi101]

I'll give you one that was high quality, but from only one side. Elena's beatdown of Iga at the YEC. After Elena drop those first few games, when she started hitting winners it was a beauty. But it was only her; Iga was out of it.

[mick1303]

@ Mick. No, that is not my anti-fandom. Maybe it is your fandom speaking. That possibility is also always there.
I am not saying the end of his career; he became a force indeed, and he learned that aspect as well as anybody. Very much like Lendl. You must remember how Wilander once said that with Lendl, early in career, all you needed to do was to get to 4-4 and you knew he would give you the set (Wilander speaking), And then, he changed into this player that, if you got to 4-4, you knew there was no way he (Lendl) would lose the set (again, Wilander speaking).
And I did mention about later in his career. Which, perhaps more accurately, should be a bit into his career. He became that force when he started his truly dominant phase.

But another thing, and you do this at times: yes, you do not judge a player solely by his early career. But you do not discard it either. Early in her career, Martina was a bit out of shape, and was mentally a bit over the map. All that was corrected, and she became that unstoppable player. But you cannot discard those years just like that. She was that player, and she was also the later player. You look at the whole thing.

And we always talk only of the Big three, the big champions. How about lesser players that had incredible qualities? In the mental aspect, I will say Ferrer and Schwartzmann were incredible. Never gave up on a single point, regardless of the score. So, I do say that, if I were to be building a Frankenstein monster player, taking bits and pieces of one player here, and one player there, and I were given the mental strength of Ferrer or of Djokovic, I would take Ferrer's. He was also very special there.

When we talk about mental strength, IMO we shall consider the scale of the match we're looking at. It affects the stakes. Ferrer and Diego S never really had a chance to showcase their mental strength on the biggest occasions. They were eliminated earlier as a routine.

[ashkor87]

in the same vein, I always felt Federer was not as strong mentally as his great rivals - he cracked under pressure sometimes.. Nadal never did..Federer was just such a great playr he would win anyway. I have commenetd simlarly about Rybakina elsewhere.. when she is on a roll, she is simply unbeatable.. when things get close, she is not able to find another gear - maybe because she is always in top gear.

[ashkor87]

I remember reading somewhere (dont know how true it is) that Gonzales was never broken when serving for a set... that would be real mental strength