Random, Random 2.0

[meganfernandez]

It might be expensive to rent a car in one place and return in another, albeit I have not checked. It definitely makes no sense to have a car in Madrid itself.

As for times train to Oviedo (fastest) is 4 h 40 min, about the same as driving. To Bilbao trains are rather slow (5 h), driving would be only four (many locals fly). It's about a 3 h drive between Oviedo and Bilbao. Perhaps still makes sense to take a train to Oviedo, rent a car, go to all the places you want and return for a train trip back to the capital.

For fast trains you have chosen the wrong corner of Spain. They're way faster than this when going to Barcelona and points south (Seville, Alicante, Valencia, Malaga).

Okay, thanks! Maybe we should forget the Basque country and just take our time in Madrid and Asturias. Rent a car in Asturias and noodle around, but not try to cram in the Basque area. We don't want to rush rush rush. Would rather relax.

[Suliso]

That might indeed be a smart choice if you only have a bit more than a week. If I may ask why Asturias? Do you perhaps have some roots there?

I've been to Spain several times, but never to Asturias. Been to neighboring Galicia, though.

[meganfernandez]

That might indeed be a smart choice if you only have a bit more than a week. If I may ask why Asturias? Do you perhaps have some roots there?

I've been to Spain several times, but never to Asturias. Been to neighboring Galicia, though.

Yes, ancestral roots. How's Galicia? The more I read about Oviedo, the more i think we'd like three or four days there at least, especially if we have a car. It will be in the winter and maybe not the best time to hike or anything, but we'll see.

[Suliso]

Both Galicia and Asturias are rainy in the winter, but not particularly cold. I was in Santiago de Compostella and nearby in early September for a long weekend. It's a cool town, a big pilgrimage destination. Nearby Pontevedra is cute as well. It's one of the few places in Spain where I'd be willing to go in mid summer.

[meganfernandez]

Both Galicia and Asturias are rainy in the winter, but not particularly cold. I was in Santiago de Compostella and nearby in early September for a long weekend. It's a cool town, a big pilgrimage destination. Nearby Pontevedra is cute as well. It's one of the few places in Spain where I'd be willing to go in mid summer.

Great, thanks! I don't know if we'll get as far as SdC. Probably stay around Asturias and maybe another ancestral place to the east, and Madrid and points between those places. I guess we should be ready to hike in case there's good weather one day, in the Picos de Europa park. Love suggestions if you have any others. Have you stayed in a parador?

[mmmm8]

Why not Madrid (3-4 days), then fly or take train to Bilbao (1-2 days in Bilbao), then rent a car to drive around the region (Bilbao-Asturias-Bilbao 2-3 days + Bilbao-San Sebastian-Bilbao day trip), then fly from Bilbao to Madrid and straight to US.

Also, for what it's worth the intercity bus system in Spain is quite good (have only tried it in the South though)

[meganfernandez]

Why not Madrid (3-4 days), then fly or take train to Bilbao (1-2 days in Bilbao), then rent a car to drive around the region (Bilbao-Asturias-Bilbao 2-3 days + Bilbao-San Sebastian-Bilbao day trip), then fly from Bilbao to Madrid and straight to US.

Also, for what it's worth the intercity bus system in Spain is quite good (have only tried it in the South though)

That might work if we do less time in Madrid and more time in Asturias. I'd rather not fly once we're there unless we get a connection when we land from the US, so we'd connect to Bilbao right away and then wander to Asturias eventually and train back to Madrid. Wouldn't want to backtrack to Bilbao by car. I just don't know if we want to move around that much. Might prefer to settle in 2 different places and roam versus switching hotels more than once.

Kinda want to check out a tennis club with a public restaurant. Heard those are common in Switzerland and other European countries. I found one in San Sebastian. Hopefully will fine more. Surely there are some in Madrid.

[JazzNU]

I would love to see a train cut through The Rockies.

I will pass on that. In theory it's great and scenic, in practice, still scenic I guess, but a bit terrifying. Speaking as someone who has been on a train traveling next to a ravine.

Why should it be terrifying? You just cut a base tunnel at the bottom of the mountains and you hardly notice them. Here we have a 55 km tunnel going under the Alps. 19 minutes and you're already on the other side. Of course the scenic aspect is lost, but the speed is the point in this case.

Because I was basically terrified when I was riding the train next to the ravine. There is no tunnel. You see it all. The drop is significant, looks like you can fall to your death if it doesn't go right and there just nothing there to assure you that there will be anything in the way to prevent certain death. Is it scenic? Yes. But also, quite frightening if you're forced to think about it. Much better if you just ride right through that section, which I have, but I've also been stopped in that section and we had to sit and wait for Conrail to pass and man does it get your mind wandering when you're there too long.

And FWIW, I am not afraid of heights, been to the top of the Sears Tower, Twin Towers, Empire State, Hancock, etc. and was fine. Flying is no issue at all. This was different.

[mmmm8]

I will pass on that. In theory it's great and scenic, in practice, still scenic I guess, but a bit terrifying. Speaking as someone who has been on a train traveling next to a ravine.

Why should it be terrifying? You just cut a base tunnel at the bottom of the mountains and you hardly notice them. Here we have a 55 km tunnel going under the Alps. 19 minutes and you're already on the other side. Of course the scenic aspect is lost, but the speed is the point in this case.

Because I was basically terrified when I was riding the train next to the ravine. There is no tunnel. You see it all. The drop is significant, looks like you can fall to your death if it doesn't go right and there just nothing there to assure you that there will be anything in the way to prevent certain death. Is it scenic? Yes. But also, quite frightening if you're forced to think about it. Much better if you just ride right through that section, which I have, but I've also been stopped in that section and we had to sit and wait for Conrail to pass and man does it get your mind wandering when you're there too long.

And FWIW, I am not afraid of heights, been to the top of the Sears Tower, Twin Towers, Empire State, Hancock, etc. and was fine. Flying is no issue at all. This was different.

I have a fear falling (close but slightly different than fear of heights), so I feel you. I try not to let it stop me and usually make myself go up and come to the edge, so I'd probably do the train but would definitely get an anxiety attack during.

[Suliso]

Great, thanks! I don't know if we'll get as far as SdC. Probably stay around Asturias and maybe another ancestral place to the east, and Madrid and points between those places. I guess we should be ready to hike in case there's good weather one day, in the Picos de Europa park. Love suggestions if you have any others. Have you stayed in a parador?

I'm afraid haven't stayed in a parador... Yes, always possible to have a lucky good weather day. Mountains might be really cold in November-March, though. When I said that climate is mild I meant mostly coastal areas where ocean moderates temperatures.

Btw roads in Spain are very good. Easy to drive except maybe parking...

As for travel itineraries where are two extreme types of travelers (not counting clueless ones) - get as much stuff in during the short time there or omit most of it but see few select places much better and just relax + of course everything in between. I tend to gravitate more to the second option.

[ponchi101]

Renting a car and dropping it at a different destination is always very expensive.
Only thing I will say about 9 days in Spain... a bit short. Madrid is very much like Paris, London or NYC, in that just with the museums you can easily spend 4 days, or until museum saturation is reached. And you WILL NOT get to bed early. In Madrid, it is impossible.
Basically, you will not go wrong, but you may leave knowing that there are plenty of places you did not get to see.

[Suliso]

Basically, you will not go wrong, but you may leave knowing that there are plenty of places you did not get to see.

That would be unavoidable in a trip three times as long too and not just in Spain.

[meganfernandez]

Renting a car and dropping it at a different destination is always very expensive.
Only thing I will say about 9 days in Spain... a bit short. Madrid is very much like Paris, London or NYC, in that just with the museums you can easily spend 4 days, or until museum saturation is reached. And you WILL NOT get to bed early. In Madrid, it is impossible.
Basically, you will not go wrong, but you may leave knowing that there are plenty of places you did not get to see.

yeah, and that's fine... the way it is. We just want to see a few key things and then soak up the area. We like to wander - usually with a bakery en route on my end. Not schedule too much ... but I'm always worried if we don't schedule ANYTHING then we'll miss everything or just reflexively go back to the main square every day and never get off the beaten path. I don't trust serendipity.

[JazzNU]

That might work if we do less time in Madrid and more time in Asturias. I'd rather not fly once we're there unless we get a connection when we land from the US, so we'd connect to Bilbao right away and then wander to Asturias eventually and train back to Madrid. Wouldn't want to backtrack to Bilbao by car. I just don't know if we want to move around that much. Might prefer to settle in 2 different places and roam versus switching hotels more than once.

I'm not sure if by ancestral roots you mean you'll be visiting your or your husband's family while there, but if so, I know a rental car might be especially useful. So I thought I'd mention, it is also very expensive renting one place and dropping off in another in the US, unless you figure out the exception to the rule. Budget was always the place to do one-way rentals and later Alamo started seeing there was a market for that kind of rental. Could be similar in Spain, worth double checking if every one-way rental option gets a fee for not returning to the same location if this is your preferred method during part of your trip.

Also, hopefully those much more knowledge about current European travel can weigh in on this. Unless there's been a big change in recent years, I'd guess most rental cars are still manual and there might be an extra cost to rent an automatic. Something to keep in mind if you don't want or can't drive a manual.

[meganfernandez]

That might work if we do less time in Madrid and more time in Asturias. I'd rather not fly once we're there unless we get a connection when we land from the US, so we'd connect to Bilbao right away and then wander to Asturias eventually and train back to Madrid. Wouldn't want to backtrack to Bilbao by car. I just don't know if we want to move around that much. Might prefer to settle in 2 different places and roam versus switching hotels more than once.

I'm not sure if by ancestral roots you mean you'll be visiting your or your husband's family while there, but if so, I know a rental car might be especially useful. So I thought I'd mention, it is also very expensive renting one place and dropping off in another in the US, unless you figure out the exception to the rule. Budget was always the place to do one-way rentals and later Alamo started seeing there was a market for that kind of rental. Could be similar in Spain, worth double checking if every one-way rental option gets a fee for not returning to the same location if this is your preferred method during part of your trip.

Also, hopefully those much more knowledge about current European travel can weigh in on this. Unless there's been a big change in recent years, I'd guess most rental cars are still manual and there might be an extra cost to rent an automatic. Something to keep in mind if you don't want or can't drive a manual.

thanks! Forgot about the manual thing. Might be a dealbreaker in a mountainous area. We'll see. I can drive one but it has been awhile, and I'm rather nervous in the mountains, especially in the rain.