Ghislaine Maxwell Trial

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Info on Interlochen. https://www.interlochen.org/arts-boardi ... ancial-aid

Inner City Press @innercitypress

Menninger: And is your signature on the 2d page?
Jane: Yes. It's dated 5/7/94.
Menninger: Before you met Jeffrey Epstein, right? Did you apply for financial aid or scholarship?
AUSA: Let them offer it into evidence. Under seal.
Judge Nathan: So ordered.

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Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports

Court adjourns for the evening.
Cross-examination continues on Wednesday.

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[mmmm8]

They really just outed this woman, a combination of going to Interlochen and her sister's name. Surely people who know her will be able to guess.

[Fastbackss]

And the number of siblings. Reddit probably has it solved by now.

As to the earlier comment "where were the parents?" - if you read/listen to accounts of interactions with Michael Jackson, R.Kelly, etc. - it is very common for the parents to ignore the situation - or downplay it due to the brush with fame (and money)

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I was out all morning and I've been a bit distracted breaking Christmas lights. Here's @KlasfeldReports summary of this morning's cross provided by @threadreaderapp

Adam Klasfeld

Good morning from New York.

The third day of Ghislaine Maxwell's trial begins this morning with continuing testimony by "Jane," the first woman prosecutors described at the very start of openings.

Pre-trial proceedings have been underway.

"Jane" testified yesterday that she was living in a "pool house" after meeting Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein at camp.

Maxwell's defense counsel are questioning that testimony about her family's financial difficulties.
As "Jane" has denied the defense attorney's suggestion, the parties are arguing whether the line of questioning is permissible.
After yesterday's testimony by Jeffrey Epstein's pilot, the government released certain exhibits entered into evidence.

Here, Jeffrey Epstein stands in front of his Gulfstream G2B aircraft. He had three. The one that has been dubbed the "Lolita Express" was the Boeing.



Some crucial elements of the testimony of the pilot, Lawrence Visoski, for understanding the ongoing testimony of "Jane":

Visoski recalled meeting "Jane" in approximately the mid-to-late '90s.

"Mr. Epstein brought her to the cockpit and introduced her to me," he said.
The pilot said his impression of her was as a "mature woman with some piercing powder blue eyes."

Visoski said he remembered her as a passenger from Epstein's trip to Traverse City, Mich., for visiting Interlochen, the arts academy for "gifted children."
Visoski confirmed some of the high-profile passengers on Epstein's flights, including Bill Clinton, Donald Trump ('more than once, I believe'), Prince Andrew, Itzhak Perlman and others.

(Pictured: Inside the Boeing)



Visoski claimed yesterday never to have seen "sexual activity" on the plane or girls he thought were unaccompanied minors—though he testified he did see "Jane" and Virginia Roberts (aka, Virginia Giuffre).
"All rise."

The jury is entering.

"Jane" is in the witness box.
Maxwell's defense attorney Laura Menninger starts her second day of cross-examination with questioning about Interlochen, the arts academy where "Jane" met Epstein and Maxwell.
By the way, about the "witness box":

Since the age of COVID-19, witnesses have been testifying in federal court inside a Plexiglas booth so they can safely remove their masks — so they can be grilled in accordance with the Sixth Amendment right to confront one's accuser.
—Part of that is observing the facial expressions of the witness.
Menninger tries to undermine "Jane's" account of her difficult family life through school records at Interlochen, like an application describing her "loving family."

Yesterday, "Jane" testified that her mother instructed her not to discuss her feelings and family.
Menninger pivots to "Jane's" first meeting with Epstein and Maxwell in 1994, at the Interlochen arts academy.

The defense attorney says that she has given different accounts of the meeting. An ongoing defense strategy is undermining the women's memories of decades-old events.
Menninger asks if "Jane" remembered testimony being by herself at Jeffrey Epstein's house in Palm Beach.

"Jane" agrees.

The attorney says that she told the government something different and begins reading a document —

— drawing a prosecution objection.
Menninger says that she told the government that she was with her mother and brothers in the beginning.

"Jane" says she doesn't remember that.
"Jane," as the defense attorney tries to undermine her memory:

"Memory's not linear."
Q: The dinner you had at your house was prior to any abuse.

A: That's not true.

Menninger tries to read from a document, sparking an objection from the government.

"Your honor," the prosecutor says, she objects to Menninger "testifying."
Long sidebar.

(Jargon explanation: A sidebar is when the parties confer privately with the judge out of earshot of the jurors, press and public.)
Those are usually to resolve evidentiary issues, and in this trial, they've largely been used to protect the anonymity of the witnesses.

Sometimes those conferences are captured in transcripts, except when they are about sealed matters.
Menninger says "Jane" does not recall whether Maxwell ever touched her.

"That's not true," "Jane" says.

Menninger asks whether she told the government she could not recall that.

"I don't recall."
Menninger asks whether she told the government Maxwell never watched her perform oral sex on Epstein.

"That's correct," "Jane" says.

Same answer when asked to confirm she told the government Maxwell never used sex toys or a vibrator on her.
Remember:

"Jane's" testimony implicating Maxwell, not only in grooming her for Epstein's abuse, but participating in it.

In these exchanges—which I'll await the transcript for in further detail because exact phrasing matters—the defense attorney attacks the crux of that.
Cross-examination resumes:

Menninger pivots to the first time "Jane" says Epstein abused her. She testified that's when Epstein masturbated on her in the Palm Beach pool house.

The lawyer says she told the government in 2019 that it was in New York.

"That is not correct": Jane
Menninger is confronting her with notes from unrecorded interviews with the government.

"Jane" has said repeatedly during cross-ex that the notes were inaccurate.

"This is just someone jotting down notes," she said.
A legal explainer here courtesy of @MitchellEpner, an ex-federal prosecutor who led intake on sex trafficking cases for the District of N.J.



It goes into the admissibility of alleged prior inconsistent statements in government interviews — the heart of this line of questioning.
Image
There's a lot of dispute about whether the notes suggest "Jane" told the government she went to see the "Lion King" on Broadway with Maxwell in New York;

* if so, when they purportedly saw it;

* and whether "Jane's" purported chronology conflicted with its opening date.
Q: You don't recall any abuse happening when you first came to New Mexico, correct?

A: That is not correct.
Under the rules of evidence, these notes can be shown to the witness to refresh her recollection because they cannot be entered as exhibits as verbatim transcripts (which they are not).

Menninger is systematically contrasting "Jane's" testimony what these records reflect.
"Jane" says she was never asked to recruit other girls or directed to have sex with any of Epstein's associates.
Q: "Mr. Epstein introduced you to Donald Trump, correct?"

She says yes.
Pressed by Menninger, "Jane" agrees that she said Epstein drove her Mar-a-Lago in a dark green car when she was 14.
This line of questioning is not explored much further.

Menninger pivots to unrelated allegations of group sexualized massages.
Q: You remember Prince Andrew being on a flight with you?

Yes.

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Cross as posted by Matthew Russell Lee for/as @InnerCityPress using @threadreaderapp

Maxwell's lawyer Menninger: You testified yesterday your first has sex with Epstein in his pool house in Florida. But you told the government it was in New York.
Jane: Those are not my notes. I did not write that down and it was not recorded.
Menninger: You told them you only remembered one incident in NY when Ghislaine was present.
Jane: I don't recall.
Menninger: Look at 3509-003. Hasn't your story changed?
Jane: I didn't understand the question.
Menninger: You told the government you flew to NY with Epstein & Ghislaine to see The Lion King.
Jane: I said that but I was incorrect in my timeline. I was 14.
Menninger: You were a student of theater and the arts at the time, correct?
AUSA: Objection as to form.
Judge Nathan called another break, saying that Jane needed a drink of water. Now she's back on the stand.
Menninger: Let's go to your conversation in Feb 2020, about the Lion King.
AUSA: No objection
Menninger: I know Ms. Moe would like to come and do this for me
AUSA Moe: I object to that.
Menninger: But the Lion King on Broadway didn't start until you were 17 years old. Did the government or Mr. Glassman suggest to you that you might have meant the Lion King movie?
AUSA: Objection!
Menninger: So you recall going to the New Mexico range, a giant huge home, correct?
Jane: Like all the homes.
Menninger: And that Jeffrey Epstein's brother went with you, correct?
Jane: I don't recall.
Menninger: You weren't asked to have sex with any of Epstein's friends, were you?
Jane: No.
Menninger: Did Epstein introduce you to people in the arts?
Jane: Not really.
Menninger: To the dean of Interlochen at a cocktail party?
Jane: I don't recall.
Menninger: In 3509-001, you said you met Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago, before the pool house incident.
Jane: I don't recall.
Menninger: You said Epstein took you in a dark green car to Mar-A-Lago to meeting Donald Trump?
AUSA: Asked and answered and also misleading.
Menninger: You also had some recollections about flying on the private plane with Epstein, right?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: You said you were asked your weight when you got on the plane, correct?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: In 2019 before Epstein was arrested you were contacted by the government, right?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: But you said you were not interested in getting involved.
Jane: Right.
Menninger: Then you hired Mr Glassman, a personal injury lawyer with ads-
AUSA: Objection.
Menninger: Did you see his ads, touting his big verdicts?
Jane: He's a friend of a friend.
Menninger: Is this your contingent fee agreement?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: You've talked to your ex-boyfriend Matt, right?
Jane: Right.
[Programming note: It seems "Matt" will be the next witness. Judge Nathan has said there is some issue with the jurors' delivered lunches. So this may go a while.]
Menninger: When you were 15 did you take a trip to Italy for a singing competition?
Jane: I may have. I don't remember. I was 15.
Menninger: And at 16, you traveled for a sibling?
Jane: Maybe.
Menninger: And you were in a beauty pageant sponsored by Donald Trump?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: Do you recall crying that Jeffrey Epstein only gave you $2000 for a dress?
Jane: No.
Menninger: You were on a reality TV show with Matt, right?
Jane: Yes.
Menninger: And there was tension and you cried?
Jane: Reality shows are not really reality.
Menninger: You claimed you were putting a roof over your family's head?
Jane: I don't know if I used those words.
Q: You told that to Matt.
A: They were living in my house.
Menninger: And you demanded money from Ghislaine Maxwell?
Jane: I have a lawyer.
Menninger: And you sought money from the Epstein Compensation Fund - look at Exhibit J-18, at 6. You were offered how much?
Jane: $5 million.

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Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports
Lunch recess.

To be absolutely clear, she did not accuse Trump or Andrew of any wrongdoing on the witness stand. She only answered those questions as reflected in the tweets above.

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"Jane" cross continues







Inner City Press
@innercitypress

AUSA: You were asked about notes of meetings with the US. Did you speak about everything all at once?
Jane: No. It was too difficult, emotionally, on every level.
AUSA: Then there were fewer of us in the room. Do you know why?
Jane: To make me more comfortable.

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More of the cross from this afternoon.

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A summary via @threadreaderapp of @KlasfeldReports posts from this afternoon

There's a lot of dispute about whether the notes suggest "Jane" told the government she went to see the "Lion King" on Broadway with Maxwell in New York;

* if so, when they purportedly saw it;

* and whether "Jane's" purported chronology conflicted with its opening date.
Q: You don't recall any abuse happening when you first came to New Mexico, correct?

A: That is not correct.
Under the rules of evidence, these notes can be shown to the witness to refresh her recollection because they cannot be entered as exhibits as verbatim transcripts (which they are not).

Menninger is systematically contrasting "Jane's" testimony what these records reflect.
"Jane" says she was never asked to recruit other girls or directed to have sex with any of Epstein's associates.
Q: "Mr. Epstein introduced you to Donald Trump, correct?"

She says yes.
Pressed by Menninger, "Jane" agrees that she said Epstein drove her Mar-a-Lago in a dark green car when she was 14.
This line of questioning is not explored much further.

Menninger pivots to unrelated allegations of group sexualized massages.
Q: You remember Prince Andrew being on a flight with you?

Yes.
Lunch recess.

Cross-examination resumes:

Q: You said that you were raised in a household where you'd get in trouble if you said something?

"Jane" asked for clarification about "something."

Q: Something personal.

She replies yes.
Menninger asks if she recalled telling her mother about a teacher pulling her hair.

"Jane" answers yes.

Asked if she recalled her mother filing a lawsuit against the teacher, "Jane" says she didn't know that.
Showing her papers, Menninger asked if they refresh her recollection that her mother sued her teacher.

"No, I had no idea my mother did this," responds "Jane."
"Jane" says that she met Mike Wallace with Jeffrey Epstein in New York.
Menninger says that "Jane" said that was at Mike Wallace's 80th birthday party?

"Jane" agrees.
There are no allegations made about Wallace, either, except a suggestion made by the defense attorney that the date doesn't match up with the account.
Earlier in cross-ex—

Q: You consider yourself an actor?
A: Yes.

Q: An actor portrays a fictional character?
A: Yes.

[...]

Q: You've been an actor for a very long time?
A: Yes.
Q: “You’re able to cry on command.”
A: “No, not always. That not really how it works.”
Cross-ex ends.

Redirect begins.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Alison Moe to "Jane"—

Q: Have I or any other prosecutor told you what to say on the witness stand?
A: No.

She asks "Jane" what they told her to say.
A: "Just tell the truth."
Asked whether she was able to tell all of the details in her initial meeting with the government, "Jane" emotionally says:

"Because I was standing in a roomful of strangers and telling them the most shameful, deepest secrets that I've been carrying around with me my whole life."
She says a reporter "blackmailed" her:

"He said that court documents with my name was unredacted, and the Epstein 'little black book' was out—"

The defense makes a hearsay objection.
The prosecutor goes about it a different way, eliciting her to testify that the reporter threatened to expose her if she didn't speak to him.

She says she was worried for her career if the information became known.
Asked by the prosecutor about the difference is between acting and testifying, she responds:

She responds: Acting on TV is not real, and testifying in court is.
Asked why she remembers the first time she says Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused her more clearly than other events, she responds: "Because it's the beginning of when my life would change forever."

Q: How old were you when you first touched Jeffrey Epstein's penis?
A: 14.
The prosecutor asks about defense attacks of the $5 million settlement she got from the Epstein victims fund, of which she received roughly $2.9 million.

Q: Jane, in your own words, can you tell the jury what that money meant to you?

(She cries, wiping her eyes with a tissue)
"I wish I never received that money in the first place because of what happened," she says.

Her testimony concludes.

Afternoon recess.
The next witness, "Matt," is also testifying under a pseudonym because he's "Jane's" ex-boyfriend; disclosing his name could identify her.

From her testimony:

Q. While you were together, did you ever tell Matt that you'd been sexually abused by Maxwell and Epstein?
A. Yes.
"All rise."

The jury enters.
Judge Nathan says courtroom sketch artists should not precisely draw "Matt's" features, either. (Sketches of "Jane" were obscured at the face.)

He's called to the witness box, is sworn in, and explains the use of the pseudonym.
He tells the jury he's been employed on and off as an actor on a TV show for the past 15 years.

Q: "How do you know Jane?"
A: "She's my ex-girlfriend."

She says they were together between 2006 to 2014, approximately — moving into together one year into the relationship.
"Matt" testifies that "Jane" initially referred to Epstein as her "godfather," who helped pay her family's bills and was "looking out for her family."
Q: Did there come a time when she told you why Jeffrey Epstein gave her money?

A: Yes.

Asked about what she said, he replies: "She never went into detail. She just said that it wasn't pretty."
Q: Did she ever use the word 'massage'?

Defense: Objection—leading

Nathan: Overruled. I'll allow it.

A: Yes.
Did she ever tell you that there was a woman in the house?
A: Yes.

Q: Did she tell you that the woman in the house made her feel comfortable?
A: Yes.
"Matt," about a comment by "Jane":

"She'd just say to me: 'Matt,' the money wasn't (expletive) free."
Ex-federal prosecutor @MitchellEpner, who previously led intake in sex trafficking prosecutions in the District of N.J., offers his analysis on the legal backdrop of "Matt's" testimony.

Maxwell's opened the door, he says.



Extremely fast testimony.

Prosecution wraps shortly.

Maxwell's lawyer, Bobbi Sternheim, declines to cross-examine him.
Next witness:

Daniel Besselsen, assistant VP of finance at Interlochen, the arts academy at the center of Jane's story.
Besselsen confirms Epstein was a donor to Interlochen, describes the "Jeffrey Epstein Scholarship Lodge."

A photo of the lodge is entered into evidence.
Proceedings are adjourned for the day.

[mmmm8]

Well, at least the jurors are being fed well, if they can stomach it.

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Just reading the live tweets is stressful. I can't imagine how hard it is for "Jane".

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Well, at least the jurors are being fed well, if they can stomach it.

They had some great places to eat in the area where the Federal Courthouse is located. They're minutes away from Little Italy and Chinatown.