ATP WTA AO 1/16 - 1/29 2023

[Jeff from TX]

Kostyuk is at it again - refusing to shake hands with Russian and Belarusian opponents after a match.
"The ban comes after Ukrainian tennis player Marta Kostyuk said she would not shake hands with opponents from Russia and Belarus who she believes have not done enough to condemn the invasion."

She is free to do that... but this sort of prejudice and condemning people to guilt by association doesn't reflect well on her.

Perhaps it doesn't, but given the news from Ukraine, I can hardly blame her.

[ponchi101]

I can't see Murray beating Matteo. Right now, he simply does not have the movement to keep up with Berretttini.

And I deserve it

[ti-amie]

When Murray didn't win it in three I figured Berrettini had it and started watching TV. I'm still surprised that he won.

[Owendonovan]

I sometimes think my TV has frozen when Swiatek serves.

[Deuce]

Kostyuk is at it again - refusing to shake hands with Russian and Belarusian opponents after a match.
"The ban comes after Ukrainian tennis player Marta Kostyuk said she would not shake hands with opponents from Russia and Belarus who she believes have not done enough to condemn the invasion."

She is free to do that... but this sort of prejudice and condemning people to guilt by association doesn't reflect well on her.

Perhaps it doesn't, but given the news from Ukraine, I can hardly blame her.

I can - and do - blame her.
Saying that she is justified in her hatred of ALL Russians and Belarusians is like saying that hating ALL Mexicans (or any other group) is ok because you were robbed by a group of Mexicans (or any other group).

It's obviously incredibly difficult and heartbreaking to live through what Ukrainians are living through. None of us can begin to imagine what that is like.
But that does not justify throwing a blanket over all Russians or Belarusians and viewing them all as terrible people simply due to their birthing association.

This message board is rife with people complaining about unjustified prejudice, bias, and stereotyping, and saying how wrong it is - even creating it where it doesn't exist at times, just to be able to condemn it.
Sorry - but there is no excuse for any type of unjustified 'guilt by association'.

[Owendonovan]

Has anyone tried to orchestrate a pow wow with all the Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarussian players to figure out how to approach their situation? Seems they could certainly set an exceptional example globally if they came to some kind of understanding. Would Kostyuk really shine Rublev on?

[ti-amie]

Nice one of MCOS

[Deuce]

Has anyone tried to orchestrate a pow wow with all the Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarussian players to figure out how to approach their situation? Seems they could certainly set an exceptional example globally if they came to some kind of understanding. Would Kostyuk really shine Rublev on?

For that to happen, those involved would have to be open to doing it.
I think it's safe to say that Kostyuk would not be open to it. I think it's equally safe to say that Kasatkina and Rublev would be open to it. I don't know who among the others (on both sides) would be open to it - but I would hope that most - and maybe all - would be.

Something like Kostyuk and Kasatkina playing doubles together would do far, far more good than Kostyuk's constant condemnation of everything and everyone Russian and Belarusian.
Someone in Kostyuk's life should teach her that.

[JazzNU]

Has anyone tried to orchestrate a pow wow with all the Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarussian players to figure out how to approach their situation? Seems they could certainly set an exceptional example globally if they came to some kind of understanding. Would Kostyuk really shine Rublev on?

If you haven't been keeping up, Kostyuk has been so annoying that she's managed to turn a good amount of fan sentiment against her. She's out for blood, not remotely reasonable.

I personally don't think it would be a good idea anyway. The players aren't involved and a move like this would make it seem like they are. They are powerless to stop the war.

[ti-amie]

[Owendonovan]

Has anyone tried to orchestrate a pow wow with all the Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarussian players to figure out how to approach their situation? Seems they could certainly set an exceptional example globally if they came to some kind of understanding. Would Kostyuk really shine Rublev on?

If you haven't been keeping up, Kostyuk has been so annoying that she's managed to turn a good amount of fan sentiment against her. She's out for blood, not remotely reasonable.

I personally don't think it would be a good idea anyway. The players aren't involved and a move like this would make it seem like they are. They are powerless to stop the war.

I get the ax she's grinding, but she doesn't seem able to see how her approach is doing her no favors. As a Ukrainian, Russian, or Belarussian I don't think you can't be involved, no matter how benign. Idealistically, I like to think sport can bring together differing factions more easily than politics can/does. They are powerless, but shows of goodwill can't ever hurt.

[Jeff from TX]

Kostyuk is at it again - refusing to shake hands with Russian and Belarusian opponents after a match.
"The ban comes after Ukrainian tennis player Marta Kostyuk said she would not shake hands with opponents from Russia and Belarus who she believes have not done enough to condemn the invasion."

She is free to do that... but this sort of prejudice and condemning people to guilt by association doesn't reflect well on her.

Perhaps it doesn't, but given the news from Ukraine, I can hardly blame her.

I can - and do - blame her.
Saying that she is justified in her hatred of ALL Russians and Belarusians is like saying that hating ALL Mexicans (or any other group) is ok because you were robbed by a group of Mexicans (or any other group).

It's obviously incredibly difficult and heartbreaking to live through what Ukrainians are living through. None of us can begin to imagine what that is like.
But that does not justify throwing a blanket over all Russians or Belarusians and viewing them all as terrible people simply due to their birthing association.

This message board is rife with people complaining about unjustified prejudice, bias, and stereotyping, and saying how wrong it is - even creating it where it doesn't exist at times, just to be able to condemn it.
Sorry - but there is no excuse for any type of unjustified 'guilt by association'.

This will be my last post on this topic, as it may be veering off of tennis into something else. I will try to be brief and concise. First, I want to say that I appreciate your viewpoint and your opinion, Deuce. You say that you blame her, and that I am saying her hatred is justified. I don't say that it is justified - I say that it is understandable, and human. You are correct in that most of us cannot begin to imagine what is is like living through what Ukraine is going through. I will say that there is at least one of our members who knows what it is like, since he lives in Kharkiv.

I think that asking someone to rationally put aside their emotions when their homeland is under constant attack is perhaps asking too much when missiles and still bombarding the country and intense battles are being waged in many parts of the country. Kostyuk's father and her grandparents still live in Kiev from my understanding. And from what I understand, what Kostyuk wants is for Russian and Belarussian players to openly condemn the invasion. That seems to be a reasonable position (from her perspective) to ask for, as anyone playing at the top level has resources to do so safely. I get that they may never be able to return home without fear of arrest if they speak out - that is still a lesser price than many Ukrainian citizens are paying. And I believe that you get that, Deuce, since you were the one who created the War on Ukraine thread for our forum (for which I thank you).

In an ideal world, she could do what you request, but at this point, the realities of the war are obviously still too raw for her to be able to do that. You also say that this board is rife with people complaining about unjustified prejudice, bias and stereotyping and even creating it where it doesn't exist. Perhaps so, although that would be a discussion for another day. On that point, I want to say that I cannot know another person's lived experiences and reality and how those experiences have "colored" their world, for lack of a better metaphor. What I do know is that people that have experienced unjustified prejudice, bias and stereotyping may be hypersensitized to their environment. Perhaps that may lead some to jump to conclusions or not give another the benefit of the doubt when they see a perceived injustice in the world. In any case, I can try to see from that person's point of view and learn from it, even if I don't agree with it.

Yes, there should be no excuse for any type of unjustified 'guilt by association' - that being said, while it may not be right, it can be understandable. I hope that in these type of situations that I can have enough humility and compassion to recognize those type of situations when they occur. In any case, thank you for your posts and your dry sense of humor, (see Deuce's post on Osorio toughing Federer's name on the wall of champions when she was coming out for her match with Swiatek) which you don't show often enough.

Has anyone tried to orchestrate a pow wow with all the Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarussian players to figure out how to approach their situation? Seems they could certainly set an exceptional example globally if they came to some kind of understanding. Would Kostyuk really shine Rublev on?

If you haven't been keeping up, Kostyuk has been so annoying that she's managed to turn a good amount of fan sentiment against her. She's out for blood, not remotely reasonable.

I personally don't think it would be a good idea anyway. The players aren't involved and a move like this would make it seem like they are. They are powerless to stop the war.

I get the ax she's grinding, but she doesn't seem able to see how her approach is doing her no favors. As a Ukrainian, Russian, or Belarussian I don't think you can't be involved, no matter how benign. Idealistically, I like to think sport can bring together differing factions more easily than politics can/does. They are powerless, but shows of goodwill can't ever hurt.

Owen, what you recommend is also admirable/idealistic in the potential of sport to bring people together. Again, I think that the emotions are just too raw for that with the war ongoing. And I'm not sure how possible it is for any Ukrainian to remain entirely above the fray, so to speak, at this time. Let's also recognize that Kostyuk is only 20. Some veterans of war and conflict suffer PTSD and internal demons for years. I can't conceive how I would have approached a "Red Dawn" scenario at her age (or even today). While that does not give someone a free pass to do anything, this is not simply a case of poor sportsmanship because she lost a match.

Just my thoughts.

[Deuce]

This will be my last post on this topic, as it may be veering off of tennis into something else. I will try to be brief and concise. First, I want to say that I appreciate your viewpoint and your opinion, Deuce. You say that you blame her, and that I am saying her hatred is justified. I don't say that it is justified - I say that it is understandable, and human. You are correct in that most of us cannot begin to imagine what is is like living through what Ukraine is going through. I will say that there is at least one of our members who knows what it is like, since he lives in Kharkiv.

I think that asking someone to rationally put aside their emotions when their homeland is under constant attack is perhaps asking too much when missiles and still bombarding the country and intense battles are being waged in many parts of the country. Kostyuk's father and her grandparents still live in Kiev from my understanding. And from what I understand, what Kostyuk wants is for Russian and Belarussian players to openly condemn the invasion. That seems to be a reasonable position (from her perspective) to ask for, as anyone playing at the top level has resources to do so safely. I get that they may never be able to return home without fear of arrest if they speak out - that is still a lesser price than many Ukrainian citizens are paying. And I believe that you get that, Deuce, since you were the one who created the War on Ukraine thread for our forum (for which I thank you).

In an ideal world, she could do what you request, but at this point, the realities of the war are obviously still too raw for her to be able to do that. You also say that this board is rife with people complaining about unjustified prejudice, bias and stereotyping and even creating it where it doesn't exist. Perhaps so, although that would be a discussion for another day. On that point, I want to say that I cannot know another person's lived experiences and reality and how those experiences have "colored" their world, for lack of a better metaphor. What I do know is that people that have experienced unjustified prejudice, bias and stereotyping may be hypersensitized to their environment. Perhaps that may lead some to jump to conclusions or not give another the benefit of the doubt when they see a perceived injustice in the world. In any case, I can try to see from that person's point of view and learn from it, even if I don't agree with it.

Yes, there should be no excuse for any type of unjustified 'guilt by association' - that being said, while it may not be right, it can be understandable. I hope that in these type of situations that I can have enough humility and compassion to recognize those type of situations when they occur. In any case, thank you for your posts and your dry sense of humor, (see Deuce's post on Osorio toughing Federer's name on the wall of champions when she was coming out for her match with Swiatek) which you don't show often enough.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you, Jeff, for your eloquent thoughts.
Just as you wish to see more of my ‘dry humour’, I would like to see more of your well expressed thoughts - you obviously are a profound thinker - but you don’t post those thoughts here often enough. I hope the post above is not your ‘last post on the subject’ - because your perspective is both important and welcome.

I do understand where Kostyuk is coming from - and that is precisely why I don’t accept what she is saying and doing. Because it is blatantly unjust. Living through a terrible and unfair circumstance is not justification for a person to be unfair to others him/her self. Two wrongs do not make a right...

Indeed, she is only 20 years old. But she is extremely outspoken on this issue - and repeatedly so. As such, she is open to being criticized.
Further, because of her youth and inexperience, I would hope that a more mature and experienced person in her life - surely some exist - would sit her down and explain that two wrongs don’t make a right in any circumstance, and that fairness and being just and objective are things to strive for - again, in any circumstance.

You state that Kostyuk is asking for Russian and Belarusian players to publicly condemn the invasion (I can’t call it a war, as the term ‘war’ does not identify the more guilty of the two parties). Indeed, there was mention in the article I cited of her saying something to that effect. But it goes well beyond that for her...
She has openly declared several times that she wants ALL the Russian and Belarusian players to be banned from the tennis tours. And she has been very open in her hatred of ALL Russian and Belarusian people - simply due to their nationality. This is the very definition of unjustified prejudice and bias, and of pronouncing people guilty simply by association.
Last year, Kostyuk strongly and loudly objected to Azarenka’s participation in a ‘Playing for Ukraine’ exhibition because Azarenka is Belarusian. So here was Azarenka - a Belarusian athlete - willing to participate in a demonstration for peace in support of Ukraine - which is a rather obvious condemnation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine - and Kostyuk still wasn’t happy; she would not accept it. The ONLY justification for this position from Kostyuk would be if Azarenka had herself participated in the invasion of Ukraine.
So, no - obviously what Kostyuk is asking for from the Russian and Belarusian players is not simply a condemnation of the invasion. She seems to be totally and absolutely against their entire existence.

To condemn ALL Russian and Belarusian people as being just as guilty as are the soldiers who have physically and forcefully invaded Ukraine - and as being just as guilty as Putin himself - is irrational, unjustly prejudiced, disrespectful, and unfair. But that’s precisely what Kostyuk is doing consistently. And if she is going to do that, she’s going to have to accept the criticisms that come her way. And hopefully she will grow and learn from the criticisms that guilt by association and unjust prejudice is never right, no matter the circumstance.

[JazzNU]

Are 'fluffier' tennis balls causing longer matches at the Australian Open?

Matt Walsh
Assistant Editor


MELBOURNE, Australia -- What's in a ball? Well, quite a lot, especially if you're Rafael Nadal at the Australian Open.

The 2022 champion and other top players are claiming this year's balls are vastly different to those which graced the courts last year.

Nadal's main complaint is that the balls don't spin as much as he's used to -- bad news for someone whose topspin is the envy of the Tour.

And he isn't the only top player who thinks the Dunlop balls have changed.

Novak Djokovic, following his opening round win over Spain's Roberto Carballes Baena, backed up Nadal's claims.

"I mean, [the balls are] different from last year," Djokovic told the media. "The longer you play, the more rallies you play, the fluffier or the bigger the ball becomes, and it's slower."

On Saturday, before the tournament began, Nadal complained about how the balls are not taking on the Spaniard's trademark level of spin. At the United Cup in Sydney before the Australian Open began, Nadal struggled, losing both matches he played to Australia's Alex De Minaur and Brit Cameron Norrie.

"They say [the balls are] the same, but the ball is worse quality, without a doubt," Nadal said at the time.

"I think it's a ball that don't get the same spin as usual. After a couple of hits, the ball lose the pressure. It's more difficult to hit with the right spin. But I think it's easier to play when you play flatter on the shots.

"But I need to live with it. I think I practiced enough with the ball to be ready for it."

Djokovic suspects that the fluffier, slower balls are leading to longer rallies..

"I saw that [Alexei] Popyrin is playing now over four hours. [Casper] Ruud played over three-and-a-half hours. I think we are going to see more of those longer duration of matches this year than we have maybe last year," Djokovic said.

"One of the biggest reasons will probably be the ball ... I don't think the speed of the surface has changed much. The outside courts are pretty quick. The stadium courts are a bit slower. But the ball is slower. So that affects the play."

Nadal's first-round opponent Jack Draper also agreed: "[The balls] seem to sort of start off, when they're new, flying a lot. Then all of a sudden they get quite fluffy. A couple of them went very soft very quickly. gave them to the ref."

On Tuesday, Andy Murray and Matteo Berrettini played a four hour and 49 minute match -- the third longest match of Murray's career. On Monday, 2022 Australian Open runner up Danielle Collins played the longest match of her career, spending three hours and three minutes on court against Anna Kalinskaya.

On Wednesday, Canadian Felix Auger-Aliassime approached the chair umpire mid-match to criticize the performance of the Dunlops.

"I don't want to complain about it but the balls are not bouncing. It's crazy. I mean, we're hitting normal but I dunno. I know [the chair umpire] can't do anything, but I dunno if it's the batch of cans. I've never seen it."

Overall, through Wednesday morning, nine men's matches out of the 55 played ticked beyond four hours.


https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... alian-open

[ponchi101]

I gather that Novak means that the balls are different from the year before last...