The Goat Debate

[skatingfan]

But the question was MALE player..so I would say McEnroe is the right answer...not sure Murray has too many doubles titles,

No, the player in question is more recent than McEnroe. Jamie Murray has doubles titles, but Andy has never won any doubles titles.

[Deuce]

So... I decided to concentrate and really think about who it could be, given that we've already eliminated certain players.... and the name Yevgeny Kafelnikov came to me, as I remembered him having some doubles success.
I just checked his titles, and he did indeed win more than one Major in both singles and doubles.

Now, whether he is the most recent to have done so or not, I don't know. But that's the name I'm putting out there (for now).

[ashkor87]

Rafter?

[ashkor87]

No, rafter did not win multiple doubles majors..I think Kafelnikov is probably correct

[ponchi101]

My only problem then is accepting Kafelnikov as an "old school" great. He was very good but, two slams do not make you a great.

[Deuce]

My only problem then is accepting Kafelnikov as an "old school" great. He was very good but, two slams do not make you a great.

There was no mention of 'great' - only 'old school':
"The question of my trivia is - who was the last "old school" male player, who had multiple slams both in singles and in doubles."

Now, an argument could be made that Kafelnikov is not 'old school' - but that's up to one's personal definition of 'old school', I suppose.

Also - we don't even know yet if Kafelnikov is the correct answer.

[skatingfan]

My only problem then is accepting Kafelnikov as an "old school" great. He was very good but, two slams do not make you a great.

I think the connotation of 'old school' was meant to mean a player who played singles, and doubles, and nothing to do with how the player played. As far as I can tell Kafelnikov is the right answer - 2 singles, and 4 doubles titles at the majors.

[mick1303]

So... I decided to concentrate and really think about who it could be, given that we've already eliminated certain players.... and the name Yevgeny Kafelnikov came to me, as I remembered him having some doubles success.
I just checked his titles, and he did indeed win more than one Major in both singles and doubles.

Now, whether he is the most recent to have done so or not, I don't know. But that's the name I'm putting out there (for now).

Yes, you're the winner. I did have Kafelnikov in mind, when I was asking this question.

Lleyton also have slam wins both in singles and in doubles, but he has only one doubles slam and also Kafelnikov's last doubles slam was more recent - in 2002. Overall he won 4 Slams in doubles in addition to his 2 singles Slams.

[mick1303]

In this regard I consider Yevgeny as "The Last of the Mohicans". Now we are in a 20 years drought for the singles champions success in doubles.
Since Kafelnikov's last win there was only one instance when the singles champion player reached a semis in doubles. And even that one is kind of debatable (there is a caveat, that may make you discount this result).
It could be another trivia question. Who was that singles champion, who last reached the semis in doubles slam and why this result could be debatable ))
Almost sure that without looking up this will be very hard to answer. I was quite surprised myself to see this result and was wondering why didn't I know about this.

Again - this question is only about male players

[Deuce]

Mick's trivia questions are very good, and quite enjoyable to try to answer. But they are not related to the topic of this thread. So I figured I'd create a thread specifically for tennis-related trivia questions. I have just done that.

So Mick (and others) - feel free to go over to that newly created thread to pose your tennis-related trivia questions. I started it off with a question of my own (which I searched for, as I'm quite bad at coming up with trivia questions )

[mick1303]

Well, these questions are relevant, although indirectly. Once I will collect sufficient data on doubles, I may do a weighted ranking estimate, factoring doubles as well as singles. The most obvious way would be to calculate the weighted ranking for all the totality of doubles results and then add half of that number to a respective singles weighted ranking of each player. Whoever will have the highest overall number of these sums - I will consider the most accomplished player in singles and doubles combined. But so far it is for singles only. The update with 2022 results added is here: https://talkabouttennis2.com/viewtopic. ... 101#p23101

[ponchi101]

With Novak's reclaim of the #1 position, he will pass Graf at msot weeks as #1 in a month. Since he is not defending any points (he basically did not play last year in the first quarter) that seems fait accompli.

[ponchi101]

And, indeed, Novak ties Graf for most weeks at #1. I say he adds, at least, this entire year at #1. He has a lot of tournaments he did not play in last year that he can gain points from.
The case for GOAT gets more and more solid.

[Ainsley]

I am speculating about what the future holds for the remaining two players on the tour. Novak, in my opinion has every chance to surpass Roger with 103 titles before he retires. I am not sure that is the case for Rafa. I think when all is said and done and all 3 of these fantastic players have hung it up Novak will be the GOAT.

[ashkor87]

I am not sure the GOAT debate should honge on metrics like number of titles, weeks at #1 etc ..it can only be a mix of all these plus head to head record against other candidates And our subjective view on how good someone was at his best..my vote has always been for Gonzales..certainly can change as more great players emerge..one day maybe Alcaraz will be a candidate ..