The ITIA Report on Simona Halep

[meganfernandez]

From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

[skatingfan]

Then why didn’t she ever test positive until once in Aug 2022 and also not afterward? 200 negative tests, 1 positive test. Is the testing that bad? Is it that easy to evade with timing? If so, the system doesn’t work at all.

Because blood tests aren't that common.

[ashkor87]

Officialdom running amok

[skatingfan]

From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

As I understand it the drug Roxadustat is commonly used to treat anemia in places like China, and so obtaining Keto MCT with Roxadustat would be simple, and in the trial the individual took the recommended dose of the product.

[ashkor87]

From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

i have given up trying to understand it.. which is why I am advocating a simpler approach - either Nothing is Permitted or Everything is Permitted.. this arcane and complex analysis rewards only 'experts' and lawyers.. surely a waste of resources globally. If the 'experts' are any good, they would be better employed helping some sick people, as for the lawyers... nothing would make them better employed!

[meganfernandez]

Then why didn’t she ever test positive until once in Aug 2022 and also not afterward? 200 negative tests, 1 positive test. Is the testing that bad? Is it that easy to evade with timing? If so, the system doesn’t work at all.

Because blood tests aren't that common.

So then tons of athletes could be getting away with doping because they aren’t blood-tested, and they haven’t figured this out?

It showed up in her urine sample in August. Is it plausible it never showed up in previous urine samples even though she was taking it?

[meganfernandez]

From the Guardian: As part of the case, a woman of a similar height and stature was given the same amount of Keto MCT as Halep [took] before her positive test. However the control study found that the values of the banned drug in Halep’s urine test were between “46 and 85 times higher” than in the highest value of the volunteer’s urine.

My question: how was there Roxadustat in the MCT that the woman took for the investigation? Was it manufactured that way just for this test? Doubtful, so where did it come from? The same batch as Halep’s medicine? They were able to get some months later? And if they did bake it up for the test, how did they know how much Roxadustat to put in it? They would have had to know how much was in Halep’s contaminated sample.

I don’t get this at all.

As I understand it the drug Roxadustat is commonly used to treat anemia in places like China, and so obtaining Keto MCT with Roxadustat would be simple, and in the trial the individual took the recommended dose of the product.

I guess I don’t understand how getting Keto MCT with Roxadustat would be simple. It’s not normally made that way. And they would have had to know how much Roxadustat to contaminate the sample with.

[ponchi101]

What they would need to do is to try to set up a baseline.
Get a sample and "lace it" with Roxadustat. Say, 10 mg of the drug. Then, give it to a test person, and just see how much is detected in the doping test. That way, they would now know that if Simona's test returned X mg of the drug, she would have had to have taken X amount of the initial dose. Running the test for the test person over several days would give you a baseline of the time the drug would remain in the system and what the half-life of the drug would be.
Then, if indeed they detected a concentration as high as 85 times higher than in the volunteer's urine, they would know how much the intake had to be. And from there, determining if that amount could be possibly ingested by accident or contamination would be based on at least some set of numerical data.
The question would be backwards. It is not "how much we have to contaminate the sample with to reach Simona's results?". it is "How much contamination there had to be for Simona's claim that this was accidental match the results of the samples obtained from her?".

[ponchi101]

...
i have given up trying to understand it.. which is why I am advocating a simpler approach - either Nothing is Permitted or Everything is Permitted.. this arcane and complex analysis rewards only 'experts' and lawyers.. surely a waste of resources globally. If the 'experts' are any good, they would be better employed helping some sick people, as for the lawyers... nothing would make them better employed!

We have talked about that before. If EVERYTHING is permitted, you can rest assured that some countries will sponsor doping programs ala USSR, East Germany and China in the past, with possible (almost certain) damages to the health of many athletes.
And the rich athletes will get access to better quality doping, making it even more unfair.

There is a reason most athletes agree on doping control. They may not agree with the system, but I have yet to hear any athletes agreeing with the idea of "anything goes".

[meganfernandez]

What they would need to do is to try to set up a baseline.
Get a sample and "lace it" with Roxadustat. Say, 10 mg of the drug. Then, give it to a test person, and just see how much is detected in the doping test. That way, they would now know that if Simona's test returned X mg of the drug, she would have had to have taken X amount of the initial dose. Running the test for the test person over several days would give you a baseline of the time the drug would remain in the system and what the half-life of the drug would be.
Then, if indeed they detected a concentration as high as 85 times higher than in the volunteer's urine, they would know how much the intake had to be. And from there, determining if that amount could be possibly ingested by accident or contamination would be based on at least some set of numerical data.
The question would be backwards. It is not "how much we have to contaminate the sample with to reach Simona's results?". it is "How much contamination there had to be for Simona's claim that this was accidental match the results of the samples obtained from her?".

thanks, that makes sense

[ashkor87]

Then why not Nothing is Permitted..not even aspirin..would be good for everyone (full disclosure..I don't take even aspirin unless I am about to die..that hasn't happened yet,but could happen I grant)..why are some things allowed at all? even a pain killer can enhance performance!

[ti-amie]

The technology has to catch up to the dopers.

As soon as they said that there were problems with her blood passport it was over.

Meanwhile press in Romania is urging her to snitch on other possible dopers so she can return to play.

[ti-amie]

Another group caught out by this report.

[ponchi101]

Then why not Nothing is Permitted..not even aspirin..would be good for everyone (full disclosure..I don't take even aspirin unless I am about to die..that hasn't happened yet,but could happen I grant)..why are some things allowed at all? even a pain killer can enhance performance!

Because that other extreme is also impossible to control. Define "nothing", in terms of PED. Coffee? It is certainly a stimulant. Tea? The same. If you ban caffeine, how about taurine? (the stuff in Red Bull). If you go by nothing, then you have to define "nothing". How about a player that early in the morning is having some gastric issues, and decides that s/he has time for a strong laxative, flush her/his system, and get ready for a night match. No doping there, certainly, but will the laxative be "nothing" or "something"?
Extremes are hard to control.

[ti-amie]

More on this Dr Alvarez of "Pamela" fame. This was posted by a fan on another site.

Alvarez submitted two reports of his Matrix methodology on the Keto MCT samples. The second report showed significantly lower concentrations of Roxadustat than the first report. He did this to try and prove to the Tribunal that Eichner’s SMRTL methodology wasn’t detecting Roxadustat because it couldn’t detect traces small enough. But then those lower values completely invalidated the contamination defence on the whole. Truly a self goal.

SMRTL is a highly respected Lab. Alvarez seems to have been making it up as things went on. His methodology is felt to be shaky at best and not submitted for peer review.