TENNIS PLAYERS (Off-Court Shenanigans)

[ti-amie]

WADA does not sit around and rest on its laurels, they're constantly refining and updating their methodology. Yes she passed a lot of tests but the question is was the testing at the time up to the challenge of finding Roxadustat?

A family member was recently diagnosed with severe anemia and had to receive blood infusions to bring them back to "normal". This drug is designed for people who are at the level above my relative - those who have such severe anemia they have to be hospitalized. That is when this drug is administered. It's not something that some random pill maker would have access to. During this entire situation she has never named the supplement or the manufacturer, something you'd think she'd be shouting from the rooftops so that others can avoid the supplement. This is what makes the Dopa situation different. The PED she was using was available over the counter in Eastern Europe but banned in the States. That is why only she and Yuri knew she was taking it. Whoever was administering/providing this to Halep messed up.

This was taken on purpose in my opinion. It's blood doping pure and simple, and she got caught. This drug does what a hyperbaric machine does. This trying to drag everyone down with her tactic is not a good look.

[ti-amie]

A lot of people are talking about that Wimbledon win vs Serena on tennis fan sites and r/tennis. Has Halep played like that since that win?

[jazzyg]

Halep is my all-time favorite women's player, but I have stayed out of the doping debate because I have no clue what happened. All athletes claim they unknowingly took the banned substance they test positive for, so her defense carries no weight with me. The people who have been close to her who swear by her honesty (like Darren Cahill) factor in her favor, but I agree the idea of two people changing their minds on a decision after finding out she was the one accused makes no sense and smacks of paranoia.

Selfishly, I really hope her suspension gets reduced because I want to see her playing top-level tennis again, but I don't know enough about the case to say whether it deserves to be reduced. I read more than one article about her second doping offense and never really understood what it was about, but I respect the opinion of neutral observers who thought it was damning.

As for the idea of doping helping her against Serena in that Wimbledon final, that seems absurd. Yes, Halep was brilliant, but Serena was awful, too. That's why the score was so lopsided, and as I posted several times in the past, Halep's Wimbledon record is outstanding. She played incredibly well in the quarterfinals and semis before facing Serena, and she played incredibly well at Wimbledon last year until falling apart against Rybakina in the semis.

Serena's comment seems very inappropriate and beneath her, but I don't know if there is more history between them other than the Wimbledon final. I wonder if Patrick Mouratoglou coaching Halep later on rubbed Serena the wrong way.

[meganfernandez]

A lot of people are talking about that Wimbledon win vs Serena on tennis fan sites and r/tennis. Has Halep played like that since that win?

Their question suggests that a low level of Roxadustat had such a short-term and powerful impact that it helped Halep destroy the GOAT in one of the biggest matches of her life, and she timed it so it worked just for that match and none of the earlier rounds or warm-up tournaments, either. (I doubt she played THAT well in the previous rounds - she was zoning. Did she contain her errors to 3 in any match before then?)

Maybe I'm wrong and taking Roxadustat a couple days before a final makes you superwoman. But it seems dubious.

[jazzyg]

Yeah, I'm with you about the Roxadustat's efficacy being that specific.

After coming back from a break down in the first set in the quarters against Zhang, who had a great career record against her, Halep won the second set 6-1 and lost only four games to Svitolina in the semis. Part of the reason she made only three errors against Serena was Serena could not keep three balls between the lines during points, but Halep was really sharp in the previous three sets as well. Then last year, in her first time back since beating Serena, she went 10 for 10 in sets without even having to play a tiebreak before running into Rybakina.

[ti-amie]

But has Halep zoned like that since then? I'll accept your premise, and IIRC you're right - Serena played like crap that Final - but when has Halep played like that again? I think that is why people are asking the question.

I remember reading when this first started that the body excretes Roxa fairly rapidly and that whoever administered the drug to her messed up with the timing.

The pharmacokinetics of roxadustat are well characterized, with an apparent volume of distribution after oral administration of 22–57 L, apparent clearance of 1.2–2.65 L/h, and renal clearance of 0.030–0.026 L/h in healthy volunteers; the elimination half-life is 9.6–16 h. Plasma binding is 99% and the fraction eliminated by hemodialysis is 2.34%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 9.6–16%20h.

Also...

Roxadustat is an orally administered, highly protein-bound small molecule, which targets all 3 HIF-PHDs to a similar extent and is usually dosed three times weekly (TIW).21 It has a half-life of approximately 12-15 hours (healthy subjects and patients with impaired liver function)...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/me ... roxadustat

Like I said someone messed up with the timing or the test was truly a "gotcha" unexpected one.

I've said before I like Halep and always wanted her to do well but in this situation she's dug a hole for herself.

[meganfernandez]

WADA does not sit around and rest on its laurels, they're constantly refining and updating their methodology. Yes she passed a lot of tests but the question is was the testing at the time up to the challenge of finding Roxadustat?

A family member was recently diagnosed with severe anemia and had to receive blood infusions to bring them back to "normal". This drug is designed for people who are at the level above my relative - those who have such severe anemia they have to be hospitalized. That is when this drug is administered. It's not something that some random pill maker would have access to. During this entire situation she has never named the supplement or the manufacturer, something you'd think she'd be shouting from the rooftops so that others can avoid the supplement. This is what makes the Dopa situation different. The PED she was using was available over the counter in Eastern Europe but banned in the States. That is why only she and Yuri knew she was taking it. Whoever was administering/providing this to Halep messed up.

This was taken on purpose in my opinion. It's blood doping pure and simple, and she got caught. This drug does what a hyperbaric machine does. This trying to drag everyone down with her tactic is not a good look.

I read that she tested negative several times before and after the positive test, though. Like within weeks. Wouldn't that suggest she took it once, during a Wimbledon run? Seems like a crazy risk. What if she had a bad reaction?

[ponchi101]

Isn't the philosophy behind the testing that you only have to test positive ONCE? It is not "Oh, you have tested positive for Roxywhatnot for six months now, we have to ban you". It is just like this. It makes no difference if she tested negative 20 times before, and 20 times after. The thing is she tested positive once.
That is all that is needed.
And I feel sorry, because I really like her, but if she indeed tested positive, go by the book.

[Owendonovan]

She doesn't have to admit anything. Hopefully she was wise with her money. She can just quietly walk away if she likes. (I would)

[meganfernandez]

Isn't the philosophy behind the testing that you only have to test positive ONCE? It is not "Oh, you have tested positive for Roxywhatnot for six months now, we have to ban you". It is just like this. It makes no difference if she tested negative 20 times before, and 20 times after. The thing is she tested positive once.
That is all that is needed.
And I feel sorry, because I really like her, but if she indeed tested positive, go by the book.

Accidents, like non-intentional use and contamination, can be punished with just a reprimand or a suspension of up to 2 years, instead of a 4-year suspension for intentional use. There might be other carve-outs, not sure yet.

The unanswered question, which I'm sure is answered deep in the ITIA's full report just released today, si why they don't buy Halep's story that she took it accidentally from a contaminated collagen supplement. I've skimmed 50 of the 126 pages, and so far it's just a matter of conflicting expert testimony. The ITIA's scientist tested the supposedly contaminated supplmeent and said it didn't have Roxadustat. Halep's two scientists said it did and said the ITIA's result was a false negative.

ITIA's investigation into the manufacture of the supplement (exactly where it was made and the source of the ingredients) found contamination unlikely. I haven't read Halep's rebuttal to that. So they think she ingested it some other way than a contaminated collagen pill.

One of Halep's scientists also said her hair sample showed the faintest amount of Roxadustat, consistent with contamination, and if she had taken it to improve performance it should have been a lot higher. He said someone who is prescribed Roxadustat has 100X the level in their hair sample.

[meganfernandez]

WADA does not sit around and rest on its laurels, they're constantly refining and updating their methodology. Yes she passed a lot of tests but the question is was the testing at the time up to the challenge of finding Roxadustat?

A family member was recently diagnosed with severe anemia and had to receive blood infusions to bring them back to "normal". This drug is designed for people who are at the level above my relative - those who have such severe anemia they have to be hospitalized. That is when this drug is administered. It's not something that some random pill maker would have access to. During this entire situation she has never named the supplement or the manufacturer, something you'd think she'd be shouting from the rooftops so that others can avoid the supplement. This is what makes the Dopa situation different. The PED she was using was available over the counter in Eastern Europe but banned in the States. That is why only she and Yuri knew she was taking it. Whoever was administering/providing this to Halep messed up.

This was taken on purpose in my opinion. It's blood doping pure and simple, and she got caught. This drug does what a hyperbaric machine does. This trying to drag everyone down with her tactic is not a good look.

I read that she tested negative several times before and after the positive test, though. Like within weeks. Wouldn't that suggest she took it once, during a Wimbledon run? Seems like a crazy risk. What if she had a bad reaction?

Regarding the 2019 Wimbledon that Serena says was unfair, Simona's only positive test was three years later (and she lost a match that day). She tested negative multiple times in the summer of 2019. Is Serena saying she believes Simona was doping all along and never got caught? Is that likely, to dope at such a low level that you evade testers but still benefit from the drugs? Dubious.

[nelslus]

.....I also demand to know more about Simona's "Halep's two scientists". Unbiased! Unbiased!

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/108224 ... sZjWPw6AU=

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[Suliso]

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